Need Help Chasing a Vibration

[fdbyrne]

I have a vibration that I can't track down. I haven't worried about it until now because I had a lot of work to do to the vehicle and I figured that it was likely that the problem would get fixed when I did some of my front-end work, but it didn't.

The vibration starts around 68 mph. It's not the tires (brand new and balanced twice by a respectable shop). The shop, which mostly specializes in tires, is 100% sure that it is a drivetrain vibration but they aren't sure which part of the drivetrain.

It's freshly aligned, the entire front end is new, and my brakes aren't dragging.

What's the best way to go about finding a phantom drivetrain vibration? There is no slop that I can find in my u-joints. Do I just assume it's the driveshaft, pull it, and take it to the local shop that I've had balance shafts in the past?

The shop noted slop in the driver-side CV shaft but I don't think that's the problem. It's new and while there is more slop on the driver side than the passenger, that's a pretty normal thing for recent Toyota trucks. I also think that typical CV shaft symptoms are more of a low-end clunking or grinding than a high speed vibration that doesn't start until nearly 70 mph.

What do you think?

 

[Velonici]

Do you feel it in the steering wheel or the whole truck?

 

[fdbyrne]

Both.

It's more noticeable in the steering wheel but I can feel it in the coming through the seat too.

The shop says that they noticed it over a much broader speed range than I did and that they only felt it while accelerating slowly. I think that I can feel it at other times too, but it is worse when at high speed under slight acceleration.

 

[Sungod]

If you are feeling it in the steering wheel and it is a rocking back and forth, it is a problem with the tire/wheels. Most likely it is caused by an improper balance or tire that is not round. Toyota wheels by nature are a pain to balance. It sometimes requires someone who really knows what they are doing and/or special equipment. Toyota issued a TSB on balancing a few years ago.

If it feels more like someone is hitting your steering wheel over and over with a steel hammer, you just have to deal with it. Toyota issued a TSB for the Lexus, but not the 4 runner. You can buy the parts, but it is really a waste of money.

 

[fdbyrne]

It felt like a wheel/tire thing to me too. The steering wheel is rocking back and forth.

The tires are less than a week old and the rims are stock. Walmart balanced them twice. Once when they were installed and once when I complained. Not trusting Walmart, I took it to a local tire shop that is highly recommended and they said it wasn't the tires.

It also did it with the old tires that were just replaced. That's the part that has me thinking that it might actually be a driveline thing.

 

[Wikki]

It felt like a wheel/tire thing to me too. The steering wheel is rocking back and forth.

The tires are less than a week old and the rims are stock. Walmart balanced them twice. Once when they were installed and once when I complained. Not trusting Walmart, I took it to a local tire shop that is highly recommended and they said it wasn't the tires.

It also did it with the old tires that were just replaced. That's the part that has me thinking that it might actually be a driveline thing.

Just throwing this out there... Are you lifted? If so could be the pinion angle? That is something im working out on my 3rd gen since being lifted.

 

[nevada]

Both.

It's more noticeable in the steering wheel but I can feel it in the coming through the seat too.

The shop says that they noticed it over a much broader speed range than I did and that they only felt it while accelerating slowly. I think that I can feel it at other times too, but it is worse when at high speed under slight acceleration.

its sounds like you might have multiple issues.
but the vibes at speed, and what you feel in the steering wheel are tire/wheel related.

 

[fdbyrne]

Just throwing this out there... Are you lifted? If so could be the pinion angle? That is something im working out on my 3rd gen since being lifted.

Thanks for asking.

No, no lift. Bone stock in every way.

 

[fdbyrne]

its sounds like you might have multiple issues.
but the vibes at speed, and what you feel in the steering wheel are tire/wheel related.

I think you're right.

I think that I'll take it to another tire shop that I have a longer history with and have them road-force balanced. I'm not sure this current shop even checked the balance. I'll find out when I pick the truck up after work.

I appreciate all the input.

 

[Sungod]

Road force balancing is a joke and total waste of time and money.

The fact that you had the problem before makes it sound less like a balance issue, but there is a possibility. You should have someone balance it using the correct cone that is designed for Toyota wheels. If the shops are not familiar with this then they probably don't have it. They should take it a step further and back cone the wheel and use a bolt plate adapter to mount it on the balancer. It is a lot of work and most shops won't got that far.

 

[fdbyrne]

Road force balancing is a joke and total waste of time and money.

The fact that you had the problem before makes it sound less like a balance issue, but there is a possibility. You should have someone balance it using the correct cone that is designed for Toyota wheels. If the shops are not familiar with this then they probably don't have it. They should take it a step further and back cone the wheel and use a bolt plate adapter to mount it on the balancer. It is a lot of work and most shops won't got that far.

That's my plan actually. I read up on it yesterday after I left work and picked up the truck. I'm going to call around today and find a place that will balance them like you are talking about. Even if it doesn't help me, I'll be able to rule the wheel balance out and move on.

 

[LTDSC]

My Similar vibration turned out to be my lower arm ball joints and lower arm bushings. I swapped and I no longer have vibes

 

[fdbyrne]

I've heard that from other people too. I think that can be a pretty common cause.

My bearings, CV axles, struts, sway bar ends, sway bar bushings, UCA bushings, LCA, LCA bushings, inner tie rods, outer tie rods and lower ball joints are all new within the last 3 months as are the tires, rotors, calipers, and pads.

Not much left up front to go wrong.

 

[wadle5]

the entire front end is new,

this is what concerns me. What do you mean by this phrase. Replacement work/repair work due to accident?

 

[fdbyrne]

No, no accident that I'm aware of. I bought the truck in December with 125k and no reports of an accident on Carfax and no signs of damage on the vehicle itself. I just know that I'm going to have this truck for a long time and I want it in tip-top shape so I'm addressing things that most normal vehicle owners would probably just live with.

One wheel bearing was bad, so I replaced both. Both CV shafts had torn boots so they were replaced. I had a clunk that I misdiagnosed as shocks so all the struts and shocks were replaced only to find out that it was my sway bar bushings and or end so they were replaced as well. One of my calipers was seized and had damaged the rotor, so it got new brakes all the way around. I tried to replace the LCA bushings with Energy Suspension poly bushings but my cam bolts were frozen and I had to cut them. I only realized afterwards that I had to re-use a part that I cut through so I got new LCA's. At least one of my tires was out of round, so new tires.

You know how it goes. One thing leads to another which leads to another... When you like tinkering you just keep doing it I guess. Since I know I'm going to own the truck for a long time, I'd rather it be in tip-top shape from the get-go.

 

[CXS]

No, no accident that I'm aware of. I bought the truck in December with 125k and no reports of an accident on Carfax and no signs of damage on the vehicle itself.

Sorry you're chasing ghosts but I just want to mention that Carfax isn't a reliable source of accident damage. They only get what's reported so don't rule out accident damage.

 

[fdbyrne]

Sorry you're chasing ghosts but I just want to mention that Carfax isn't a reliable source of accident damage. They only get what's reported so don't rule out accident damage.

Thank you. I understand that and agree with you. I wouldn't buy a vehicle based on a Carfax report alone. But combine a clean Carfax report with a thorough inspection with no signs of previous damage and matching VIN numbers on all of the relevant parts and I feel confident that the vehicle hasn't ever been seriously damaged.

It did spend a decade in Chicago however, so things that wouldn't have yet failed further south have already rusted/worn and needed to be addressed.

As of now I think that I have two distinct vibrations that are separate. I do think that one of my wheels is out of balance and I plan on calling around to get that done the right way. I also think that my driver's side CV shaft has far too much play in it and is causing low-speed vibrations. Since the vibrations go away when I engage 4wd and there is a fair amount of slop when I push and pull on the CV shaft at the differential, I think I'll throw an ECGS bushing in there and see what happens.

 

[CXS]

I can only wish you good luck since I have no good suggestions. BTW, I wasn't aware of the limitations on Carfax until I found my "clean" truck had left front damage from an accident some time in its past. I found that out when my son-in-laws brother was looking at it and mentioned it to me. I asked how he could tell by just looking at it from 5 feet away and then realized he's owned a body shop for 20+ years and can see what most of us can't.

 

[CruzadoBlanco]

have you looked at the rack and pinion bushings? and did you do both the inner and outer tierod or just the outer?

 

[fdbyrne]

No. I didn't look at the rack bushings. How would I check those.

I did replace both the inner and outer tie rods.