New 03 Owner / No HEAT & Overheating, HELP!

[Aprils4Runner]

I bought a 2003 4Runner Limited on Saturday, drove it 156 miles home from Georgia to Alabama. It ran great (or at least I thought it did). I parked it, didn't move it yesterday - this morning I went out, started it up & put the defrost on - 15mins later - windows were still frozen over & no heat. Air is blowing but its ice cold.

Husband checked the fuses, all were fine.

He noticed that a hose had disconnected from the radiator & radiator was froze. He reconnected the hose & flushed out the radiator. Still no heat.

Husband drives to town (12miles) to get a thermostat and it overheats on the way. Replaces thermostat - still no heat - still overheating.

Now he thinks we should replace the water pump before we take it to dealer for service. Picking up waterpump tonight & he will replace it tomorrow.

Any ideas from you guys on what else we should/could do before getting bent over at the dealership?!?!

THANKS for any & all advice.

I love Toyota - drove a Tacoma from 2000-2004 & a Tundra from 2004 until this past Friday. I've always wanted a 4Runner & now I'm scared I've gotten screwed by an out of state dealer. =(

 

[Sungod]

What hose was off? Hoses don't usually just fall off? Did you not have the proper coolant mixture and your radiator froze as in ice? I hope someone didn't just fill the radiator with water. It could be your water pump, but you could have some serious block issues if it froze. I would probably run a pressure test on your cooling system before bothering with the water pump. If you do replace the water pump, I hope you have a v6 because if it is a lot easier to replace a water pump than a timing belt driven v8.

 

[03L4RUNNER]

Sure the thermostat isnt stuck close?

 

[DC runner]

Ok. Tons about this does not add up.

Your main coolant line was froze solid? If you had actual coolant in the system, that would not have occured.

If it was empty, that also would not have occurred. Did it leak out and you filled it with water? If so, and it froze solid and expanded, it could have destroyed something.

Second: Line fell off? Was the car properly maintained? I know of 0 hoses on that attach to the radiator that can simply "pop" off. Those hoses are too important for that.

I feel like we are missing some crucial information...

 

[ClockWork]

V6 or V8?

 

[4RTenn17]

I would probably run a pressure test on your cooling system before bothering with the water pump.

I agree with Sungod here, do a pressure test, this will show what might be going on. If you have already bought a water pump please do not install yet, run a pressure test first. Nothing worse than paying for a water pump and it not being the issue.

After dealing with my old Land Rover for years and constant overheating issues with the radiator, water pump, thermostat and about everything else that would cause a overheat issue "I honestly could open up a radiator shop" lol.

And as another person on here said, it just does not add up.

I know living in Georgia and Alabama it gets cold but I dont think that cold, UNLESS its not a proper mixture of coolant and someone filled up with water. If this is the case, its possible anything could happen.

Do a pressure test and with colored dye as well for leaks.

 

[Desert Fox]

DC Runner is correct, there is a lot of missing information so we can only speculate.
Even if a hose clamp fails, a proper size hose will leak but not just fall off. It could have rotted through and seperated I guess but that would take a long time and severe abuse.

Putting on all good hoses and doing a pressure test would be my first step. That will identify a water pump issue. If the water pump is not leaking then fill the system. Let it warm up to normal operating temp and look into the radiator to see if the water is circulating, be careful that you dont get burnt by hot water if it is overheating. You should see the water moving around in the fill neck of the radiator. If the water is not moving then your thermostat is probably bad. There may be a better way of checking this but that is old school.

If it was me and I was going to replace the water pump, I would also replace every water hose, thermostat and antifreeze. Then you know your system is good.

Hopefully your head gasket is good. That is my concern with overheating engines.

I did not realize it got cold enough in Bama to freeze a engine coolant system. Here in Colorado you bet.

Best of luck with this.

 

[Aprils4Runner]

It was a 1 owner vehicle, guy lived in Florida - who knows if HE put anitfreeze in it - I did not put any in it as I bought it on Saturday, drove it home, parked it and started it this morning - the previous owner very well put water in it and NOT antifreeze - I have no way of knowing this now, i can assume there was water in it and not AF since it was frozen. It was 19 degrees here this morning, its sleeting now - I'm in NE AL, it gets cold, even snows here occasionally.

There are no leaks that we can find, no fluids on the ground. The top radiator hose popped off - didnt creak, didnt break was just OFF. The radiator was frozen.

We replaced the thermostat - that did not resolve anything. Ive owned the vehicle for 48hrs and have driven it 1x albeit for 3 straight hours & it ran like a champ. Stopped for gas on way home, no leaking, no steam from overheating.

I think it froze up overnight from lack of AF - I just wanna fix it without having to involve the dealer if at all possible, but will take it to Sand Mtn Toyota 2mrw if water pump does not help.

Thanks - if I can fill in any more blanks and get any more advice, I appreciate it.

 

[TRDCal]

Did you bleed the coolant system after you found the hose off?? Or when you changed the thermostat?? Any air in the systems could cause these issues.

 

[Desert Fox]

Check you oil, Look for the milky white stuff that happens when water gets in the oilwhen a head gasket blows

 

[4RTenn17]

Well something about this that keeps popping a question in my head is the hose being disconnected. I mean those hoses are well put on and smaller than their connector or male end so that they hold tightly and plus usually you have a clamp ontop of that too. -Makes me wonder if the owner or dealership new it was all frozen due to water or whatever and disconnected it to unfreeze the hoses and drain it or something. - Then again, Im not sure about that, just a guess. lol.

Another thing that someone else mentioned as well could be a blowen head gasket. Now dont get worried here because this could honestly not be the problem but possible.

-If your husband has tried all these things and even tries the water pump and no luck then my next step would be a new radiator. Honestly with water being used or not the proper mixture of antifreeze and misuse of the vehicle, it could have easily damaged the radiator.

NOW note I have seen many times where antifreeze/coolant will show no leaks will sitting still but as soon as you start to drive and put pressure in those lines it will go crazy, NOW also be time you pull over or get home to check alot or all of that antifreeze could burn off.

Speaking from experience, lol.

I would go on ebay or somewhere and get a decent good working radiator and if that does not fix the issue then take it to the dealer. Make sure if its from ebay or wherever used that you can return if its no good or has issues. I picked up a used nice radiator online for my old Land Rover for $125 and that is a really good price considering how costly Land Rovers are and that Land Rover would have charged me $700+ for a new radiator and this is just the part and no work.

 

[4RTenn17]

Three rules to follow with a No Heat issue,,,

Check coolant level and top off if needed

Check thermostat

Check radiator and best thing is replace the darn thing - trouble to check

A forth one could be added but not seen this in most cases like this, water pump.

Even with a blown head gasket you will get heat.

- To check for a blown head gasket, remove your fill cap for oil and look for white residue and remove your oil dipstick and look for white residue. Change your oil and look for signs of coolant as well. These are good signs to look for on a blown head gasket. Another way is to watch it when you have it running, if it is letting smoke out the tail pipe and this would be lots of smoke. And this would be hard to check during winter.

 

[Aprils4Runner]

Thanks guys, oil level was a lil low, but color was fine.

I'm soooo disappointed, I wanted this 4Runner so bad, I searched & searched for 1, drove all that way and come home with something I can't drive now for the 2nd day in a row.

After the radiator unfroze, he put antifreeze in it and he said it rain thru fine - he did tell me that there are 2 hoses (not sure from what to what) and that 1 was staying cold - so he thinks the waterpump is gonna be the fix.

Praying its the water pump - picked one up at Auto Zone for $91 (Duralast) last night - he is gonna replace it today.

I will let you know if that was the fix or if its off to dealer today.

Thanks again.

 

[Sungod]

It is possible if there was only water and not anti-freeze that it could be the water pump. If hose came off from the expansion of freezing, you could probably had ice in the water pump housing and broke the impeller when you started it up. That would probably be a best case scenario. The radiator will typically freeze frist and it takes longer for the block to freeze. I still strongly suggest a pressure test even if the pump turns out to be broken.

 

[MikeInNH]

Sure the thermostat isnt stuck close?

If it was stuck open..then it wouldn't overheat.

Overheating tells me the thermostat is stuck closed...or partially stuck closed.

 

[TRDCal]

After the radiator unfroze, he put antifreeze in it and he said it rain thru fine - he did tell me that there are 2 hoses (not sure from what to what) and that 1 was staying cold - so he thinks the waterpump is gonna be the fix.

Praying its the water pump - picked one up at Auto Zone for $91 (Duralast) last night - he is gonna replace it today.

Gear down big rig...put the jack brake on!!

I don't think the "shotgun" troubleshooting method is best choice in this case. Your replacing a bunch of quality OEM parts with aftermarket crap and you don't even know whats wrong.

Did you check when your timing belt was replaced? Because water pump gets changed at the same time, and they don't usually fail before the TB needs to be replaced.

Have you done anything that was suggested?? Like, pressure test the system or ensure all air is bleed out etc. I would think if one hose is hot and one is cold it would be your thermostat stuck closed not allowing coolant to circulate which warms up the hoses and allows warm coolant to heat your cabin. Everyone makes mistakes...Is it possible your husband installed it incorrrectly, or installed the wrong part #?? etc.

If all else fails, its doesn't hurt to call the dealer and ask a mechanic, its free and it could save you a lot of trouble. When I worked at a small garage there was times that we would call a dealership for help on fixing a vehicle or problem that nobody had experience with.

 

[DC runner]

Does he know how to work on cars? There are several ways to check to see if a water pump is working.

1. With the system on, cap open, if the coolant is flowing that is a pretty clear indicator the pump is operating.

2. With the system on, if you grab the UPPER coolant line, and GRAB IT. Clamp down with your hand. If the pump is operating and in turn helping pressurize the system, the coolant line with pulse a bit. It will want to return to shape. You can physically feel the flow of coolant.......

 

[TOY2G]

If it was stuck open..then it wouldn't overheat.

Overheating tells me the thermostat is stuck closed...or partially stuck closed.

FYI..a thermostat in the open position will cause overheating just as a closed one will. The water is intended to stay in the radiator until the block gets hot enough to open the t-stat letting the cooled radiator water into the block. If it is stuck open, the water would not have time to cool in the radiator and thus the temp of the water would continue to rise until your vehicle overheats.

It is better stuck open than closed, however both can lead to the same outcome.

 

[TOY2G]

STOP......Read TRDCal's post.

Also remember that if the water pump fins did break off when the vehicle was started, they are still in your cooling system, and will end up stuck in your thermostat housing...

there are far too many variables to look at before you start throwing money at this problem. First mistake was buying a used vehicle and not checking the fluids, at a minimum you check to see how black the oil and ATF is, and make sure the coolant is pink and not green, and surly not clear.

Before more mistakes are made, that could cost you a lot of cash, just slow down and figure out what is wrong instead of guessing. These trucks are VERY resilient, however they can only take so many wrong choices by the owner.

 

[Sungod]

Gear down big rig...put the jack brake on!!

I don't think the "shotgun" troubleshooting method is best choice in this case. Your replacing a bunch of quality OEM parts with aftermarket crap and you don't even know whats wrong.

Did you check when your timing belt was replaced? Because water pump gets changed at the same time, and they don't usually fail before the TB needs to be replaced.

Have you done anything that was suggested?? Like, pressure test the system or ensure all air is bleed out etc. I would think if one hose is hot and one is cold it would be your thermostat stuck closed not allowing coolant to circulate which warms up the hoses and allows warm coolant to heat your cabin. Everyone makes mistakes...Is it possible your husband installed it incorrrectly, or installed the wrong part #?? etc.

If all else fails, its doesn't hurt to call the dealer and ask a mechanic, its free and it could save you a lot of trouble. When I worked at a small garage there was times that we would call a dealership for help on fixing a vehicle or problem that nobody had experience with.

What you are saying regarding the timing belt applies only to a v8. She has a v6. (as evident in the picture she posted in another thread)

It is impossible to install the thermostat backwards. There isn't enough room to reverse it because you can't bolt it up. Even it the thermostat was installed incorrectly or was defective, you would still get heat since the thermostat only restricts flow to the radiator.