NEW 4Runner Transmission Problem? Already?!

[triguy74]

i have a pretty serious lunge, but only when the AC is on and i'm stopped...or slowing down.

if i stop suddenly, about 3-5 seconds after i stop the car tries to lunge as (i guess) it shifts down into low gear. i'm stopped, so the brakes keep it from rolling. but it def tries to lunge. and on very slow stops, you can feel the car lunge a bit as it down shifts to each gear. i thought maybe my rotors with warped, but they have been replaced and it still happens.

it's hardly noticeable if the AC is off. but with it on, you can definitely feel it! the toyota techs have said it's just the AC cycling on/off.

one final thing, the engine idles VERY high when it's first started. if i start it, put it into reverse, the car really goes. maybe it's normal, but for what it's worth, i didn't have these problems with my 2002 Sport Edition. (which i sold to get the 2005)

i saw the posts about the tranny "learning" your driving style. i bought the 2005 Limited with ~40K on it. so i thought i just needed to unhook the battery for 15 mins to reset it, but maybe that's pointless???

i love the truck and that's the only issue i've had with it. clearly, the OP has some concern since his is brand new...not to mention the other issues. i'm sure you're probably just waiting for something else to come up. sorry man. 4Runners are incredible trucks...hate to hear that someone is having a bad experience with one.

 

[tomhaney1]

i have a pretty serious lunge, but only when the AC is on and i'm stopped...or slowing down.

if i stop suddenly, about 3-5 seconds after i stop the car tries to lunge as (i guess) it shifts down into low gear. i'm stopped, so the brakes keep it from rolling. but it def tries to lunge. and on very slow stops, you can feel the car lunge a bit as it down shifts to each gear. i thought maybe my rotors with warped, but they have been replaced and it still happens.

it's hardly noticeable if the AC is off. but with it on, you can definitely feel it! the toyota techs have said it's just the AC cycling on/off.

one final thing, the engine idles VERY high when it's first started. if i start it, put it into reverse, the car really goes. maybe it's normal, but for what it's worth, i didn't have these problems with my 2002 Sport Edition. (which i sold to get the 2005)

i saw the posts about the tranny "learning" your driving style. i bought the 2005 Limited with ~40K on it. so i thought i just needed to unhook the battery for 15 mins to reset it, but maybe that's pointless???

i love the truck and that's the only issue i've had with it. clearly, the OP has some concern since his is brand new...not to mention the other issues. i'm sure you're probably just waiting for something else to come up. sorry man. 4Runners are incredible trucks...hate to hear that someone is having a bad experience with one.

I experience the higher idle when cold but it's been worse on other vehicles I have had. I don't get an alarming surging on my 05 V8 SE but I can tell when it turns on and off. I wonder if there's a difference in the drivetrain that may have something to do with it?? I have the all-wheel drive vs. selectable on the Limited. Just a thought.

 

[nighthawk]

Just to throw something in here, I have a Mazda6 V6 and when the A/C turns on, sometimes I feel a noticeable lunge as well. It's not just the 4Runner. It happens even if I have cruise control, but it's only when I turn on the A/C. Just thought I'd throw this in to give a perspective from another car.

 

[SubSonic]

DOES ANYONE ELSE EXPERIENCE THIS RIDICULOUS, MADDENING, COMPLETELY DISTRACTING RESULT WHEN THE AC CYCLES ON & OFF- a

 

[Mtn.Rush]

Yes, and I have a V8 model. The sensation in mine is likely not as pronounced as it is in yours, but I feel it. Then again, I've always been able to feel a compressor kick in and out, on all my vehicles, dating back to my '75 Chevy pickup I had back in high school. Let's face it, AC compressors are a huge robber of HP - you should notice a difference between using it and not, you'll notice it more with smaller lower HP engines, and less with V8s with some HP/TQ, but it is noticeable in all vehicles IMO. The difference between noticeable and annoying is personal taste, so I hope yours gets squared away to your satifaction soon.

To answer your other asked question, yes, it is entirely possible that the AC compressor is running without the AC "light" being on. You can test this yourself by turning on any of your interior defrost options. Defrost *always* uses the compressor - either in short cycles up to all the time - as needed, and your AC light will not be illuminated when your defrost is active. Mine doesn't come on with the defrost cycles anyway, but I can feel the compressor engage and disengage when I am using the defrost functions. I notice a slight "surge" when it kicks off, but it isn't that bad...and has never been so bad to freak out my cruise control or anything. My (2000 V8 2WD) Tundra also acts this way a little bit - but the "surge" of extra HP when the compressor kicks off in it is also "not that bad" to me. It lets me know my MPG prolly just went up a tick, so I have no complaints. lol

Strange you should say that about the defrost...I always, 95% of the time, have mine on foot and defrost position. I dont feel it with cruise control though. I also have the V8 and it is a strange feeling. Ill have to try it out later with the defrost shut off and see what happens. Its not enough to make me not like this truck, so Im not worried. Would love to actually find out its the ac compresssor though as this is my first vehicle I have felt this.

 

[PAULUNM]

i have a pretty serious lunge, but only when the AC is on and i'm stopped...or slowing down.

if i stop suddenly, about 3-5 seconds after i stop the car tries to lunge as (i guess) it shifts down into low gear. i'm stopped, so the brakes keep it from rolling. but it def tries to lunge. and on very slow stops, you can feel the car lunge a bit as it down shifts to each gear. i thought maybe my rotors with warped, but they have been replaced and it still happens.

it's hardly noticeable if the AC is off. but with it on, you can definitely feel it! the toyota techs have said it's just the AC cycling on/off.

one final thing, the engine idles VERY high when it's first started. if i start it, put it into reverse, the car really goes. maybe it's normal, but for what it's worth, i didn't have these problems with my 2002 Sport Edition. (which i sold to get the 2005)

i saw the posts about the tranny "learning" your driving style. i bought the 2005 Limited with ~40K on it. so i thought i just needed to unhook the battery for 15 mins to reset it, but maybe that's pointless???

i love the truck and that's the only issue i've had with it. clearly, the OP has some concern since his is brand new...not to mention the other issues. i'm sure you're probably just waiting for something else to come up. sorry man. 4Runners are incredible trucks...hate to hear that someone is having a bad experience with one.

The high idle is normal, designed to help with the warm up of the cats.

I also have a very noticable surge when my compressor kicks on and off. I almost thought there was something wrong with the compressor at first, but it doesn't make any noise, and it's not strong enough to make the belt slip.

I'm way out of warranty, so I'm just going to deal with it. It's the only weird quirk on the 4runner. I've gotten used to it, and frankly seeing these posts makes me feel a bit better- it's almost a normal issue, and my compressor isn't going to eat itself.

 

[RPC]

"Sounds like you will never be satisfied with this vehicle and your lawyer should tell you to take the lemon law, get your money and walk away from the 4Runner and Toyota [and not look back]."

Wow, do I sense a slight measure of pessimism? I want to be happy with this purchase, but I also expected to receive a new vehicle in new condition- I say, there IS a reason I left $32,000.00 cash at a Toyota dealership vs. one of the plethora of others. Some folks just have no sense of self-preservation or protecting a material investment...


Any who, after all of your genuinely invaluable feedback I accepted the Platinum extended warranty "gift" to essentially deal with this issue and shut up about it. It seems that this clearly inherent, yet (to me) arguably unsafe and irritating trait is here to stay and I need to get used to that fact if I insist on owning this vehicle. Only 2500 miles and I already love the thing- DAMN is she pretty, I just wish she'd act right.

Also- as a rather new addition to TR4.org, I want to offer a heart-felt thanks to those of you who chimed in on this issue. I know you have a choice of the posts you'll respond to, and those you won't, and I appreciate the expertise and professionalism [some of you] invested in myfrustrating and troubling issues with this recent, rather large purchase. You rock.

 

[Climb14er]

"Sounds like you will never be satisfied with this vehicle and your lawyer should tell you to take the lemon law, get your money and walk away from the 4Runner and Toyota [and not look back]."

Wow, do I sense a slight measure of pessimism? I want to be happy with this purchase, but I also expected to receive a new vehicle in new condition- I say, there IS a reason I left $32,000.00 cash at a Toyota dealership vs. one of the plethora of others. Some folks just have no sense of self-preservation or protecting a material investment...

I left 34K CASH at the dealership with my 2007 V8 Sport and I too had some problems at the beginning but have dealt with the problem(s) with patience and understanding.

And NO, I did not receive a 120K warranty and I kept my cool both with the dealership and the Toyota factory the entire time.

When you began writing, it appeared to me that you had a virtually new vehicle and did not give the transmission time to 'set itself' and 'right itself' with regards to shift patterns and proper working.

At least to me, and that's why I posted what I did... first of all, you asked for our opinion and I gave you mine. If you didn't want an opinion, you should not have asked for one!

Lesson learned... when you ask for another opinion on another topic, I'll gladly leave the reply screen... blank.

Now that you made your decision, I hope it works for you. You'll have an excellent warranty to cover your vehicle which is alot better than most who've experienced similar problems but received no warranty... for one reason or another.

 

[Mtn.Rush]

Well 2 days with the a/c Defrost selector off and I didnt feel the surge once and any speed. I guess thats what it is.

 

[alaskaman]

You bought in Sac? Maita was a very good dealer (bought) my 97 Runner there, but in the last few years they are all about the buck. Just for interest I have the V6 and I simply don't get the surge. Since you love the truck would the 6 work for you? Deal down and try it at their expense for 60 days?

 

[RPC]

Climb14er- Whatever dude, blow it out your tail pipe.

Mtn.Rush- From the sound of everyone on T4R.org's forums and the EXTENSIVE research I've done on this issue, the impression I'm getting more comfortable with is that this issue is simply innate in our vehicles... Doesn't mean I'm any happier with the situation, just that it is clearly a fact to either be dealt with (keep the vehicle) or to be avoided (return it).

alaskaman- I love Maita! We actually bought a fully-loaded Camry XLE from them, WITH a 7yr 100,000 mile warranty, exactly two years ago and take that vehicle to them for everything! They have been pretty cool with this whole thing but it

 

[alaskaman]

.....so forgive me if you already posted this but what did the pros at San Ramon say?

 

[Climb14er]

Climb14er- Whatever dude, blow it out your tail pipe.

Just what I thought... You could dish it...you just can't take it!

I saw it in your words... Probably whined to the factory folks, most probably cried to them that your new vehicle was a lemon... just to get the extended warranty for free.

In Colorado we call that: Classless and cheap!

 

[RPC]

Ha Ha! Denver, Colorado?! Yeah, the leading edge of taste and class... Guy, piss off and find someone else to pick a fight with.

alaskaman- San Ramon's techs said the same thing everyone else said, "normal operation" and "no repairs necessary".

See, it doesn't really matter to me if the issue is "normal", and in fact I find it even more distressing if it is. How could such an irritating and potentially dangerous issue be normal operation? Just doesn't equate.

The moment of vindication came when Maita's Shop Foreman looked over on the test drive and described the sensation in full. After that, another of Maita's mechanics and the DSPM both fully felt it too. Nice to know I'm not crazy!

Damn, this is going to be weak summer having to decide between using the AC on 100+ days and trying to ignore the feeling of a leprechaun jerking on the throttle cable!

 

[NCSCOTT]

I experience the higher idle when cold but it's been worse on other vehicles I have had. I don't get an alarming surging on my 05 V8 SE but I can tell when it turns on and off. I wonder if there's a difference in the drivetrain that may have something to do with it?? I have the all-wheel drive vs. selectable on the Limited. Just a thought.

There is no difference in the drive systems between trim levels. It only has to do with V8 or V6. V8 4x4 = 4HI or "all-wheel" drive. V6 4x4 = Selectable. This is true no matter if you have a SR5, Sport, or Limited. That has been true for the US, unless there is something different available in Canada, but I have not heard of it. This has been the case for all 4th Gens.

As for the A/C Surge. I think from all the post it has pretty much been determined it is not a tranny issue. I also think this is related to or the same as the Driveline thump people also post about.

I currently have 2 4th gen 4Runners (see Signature) both are different when it comes to this issue. 4speed 2WD and 5speed 4WD.

The 04 does not have the Driveline thump or a significant A/C Surge. The idle seems to drag down or feel a little rougher when the compressor is kicked in. The 04 does raise the idle as soon as the A/C is called for by the computer. The reason I know this is my A/C Magnetic Clutch relay started to act up (a/c light blinking, compressor not engaging) this month. When stilling at idle in park when the system would call for the A/C compressor to kick on (when the relay was not working correctly) the engine idle would suddenly rise 300-500 RPM to likely compensate for the drag of the compressor. But in this case the compressor would not engage and in a few seconds (maybe 5 sec.) the idle would go back down to normal when the system figured out the compressor did not engage.

The 08 surely has the surge at stop lights when the Compressor engages. It also had the driveline thump to go with it but a significant amount of grease in the slip-joint at each oil change has all but reduced the thump all but nonexistent. I do not see a significant change in speed on the HWY when the curse is set and the A/C compressor kicks on.

A/C operation in our 4Runners. The compressor engages, builds pressure, when the pressure reaches a preset limit the pressure switch tells the system to disengage the compressor. This may take less than a minute for the pressure to build on a mild day or it may stay on for a while on a hot day. The amount/temp (speed/outside temp) of the air flow through the condensor (in front of your coolant radiator in the front), airflow amount/temp (fan speed/inside temp) through the evaporator. There are a ton of variables that determine how many times the compressor engages or disengages in a set amount of time. The disengaging is more than likely to help save fuel and make the system work more efficiently.

Here is a link to a thread where I posted a brief explanation of how an AC system works and a link to another site about General AC operation.


http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28727&highlight=evaporator

 

[riverider]

Just seems strange that this problem can't be solved. V8 4Runners have been around for many years, has this item never happened before? Also A/C and V8 trucks have been working well for years, my 1982 full sized Ford Bronco V8 has the same A/C working with no such surging problems.

If this is a Toyota V8 only problem and I say IF, Toyota should really find and fix the problem. I still feel a simple software fix in the system computer is the answer.

 

[RPC]

riverider- That's what I've said all along! We're not discussing a 1987 Ford Tempo here, we're talking about a big balls 4.7L V8 Toyota! My wife and I drive our '07 Camry 3.2L XLE from Central CA to LA a few times a year and I literally cannot tell when the AC compressor is cycling on and off. Come to think about it, I can't remember the last vehicle I have driven that exhibits such power draw from the AC compressor. Do you think it could be solved by something as simple as a software patch?

This thread has 55 replies, many of which are folks describing the same thing I am experiencing. One would think there are enough 4Runners out there doing the same thing that Toyota might take a look for the root cause.

 

[riverider]

riverider- That's what I've said all along! We're not discussing a 1987 Ford Tempo here, we're talking about a big balls 4.7L V8 Toyota! My wife and I drive our '07 Camry 3.2L XLE from Central CA to LA a few times a year and I literally cannot tell when the AC compressor is cycling on and off. Come to think about it, I can't remember the last vehicle I have driven that exhibits such power draw from the AC compressor. Do you think it could be solved by something as simple as a software patch?

This thread has 55 replies, many of which are folks describing the same thing I am experiencing. One would think there are enough 4Runners out there doing the same thing that Toyota might take a look for the root cause.

I understand were discussing BIG V8s, AC compressors have been cycling on BIG V8s for years with no surging problems. Maybe it's not a A/C related problem. It could be a fuel system problem. The system computer is told the compressor is starting, then the computer tells the fuel system it needs to apply more fuel. The fuel system is slow or does not comply. The 4Runner feels a surging as the engine try's to rebound it's power. Just my thoughts on this problem.:bash:

 

[alaskaman]

I would stay on this with the Dealer. You have some paper trail. a good way might be to have someone videotape the RPM when the A/C button is depressed and released and the attending "surge".

 

[SLED]

I understand were discussing BIG V8s, AC compressors have been cycling on BIG V8s for years with no surging problems. Maybe it's not a A/C related problem. It could be a fuel system problem. The system computer is told the compressor is starting, then the computer tells the fuel system it needs to apply more fuel. The fuel system is slow or does not comply. The 4Runner feels a surging as the engine try's to rebound it's power. Just my thoughts on this problem.:bash:

:iagree: There's gotta be a fix for this.