"New gen" 5100's and Toytec Coilovers

[Texas777]

OK, before I get flamed for bringing up "new" design 5100's and Toytec coilovers, let me say that I've read every thread I can get my hands on and can't find where the subject has been covered. I see that both the subject of 5100's and Coilovers has been covered ad nauseum already, so I get the collective "sigh"!eep:

I ordered a set of the "new" 5100's months ago, just received them, and am contemplating adding Toytec coilovers while the truck is apart. Being new to 4Runners having recently bought a '14 Trail, I thought just the 5100's would largely cure the porpoising issue in the front end, but am now of the understanding it will take coils too in order to get it done. Can't add a 2.5-3" lift (would really like to) as I use the truck to shuttle clients around frequently. Just looking to level and fix the nose dive. Does anyone know if this combo will work? I know that Toytec uses the previous generation 5100 for their pre-built kit, but am not sure if its because they don't want to carry two different shocks, or if they have built it to go with that particular shock, etc.?

Adjustable Front Coil Over Kit for Bilstein Shocks 2010+

Any other coil options I've missed that will give 1" or less lift?

Thanks

 

[jrandom]

I suspect they use the "old" 5100 simply because no one has the "new" yet. :shrug:

Well, you have to ask, what is "new" about them? If they have the same size tube the Toytec coilover should fit. The coilover is just a clamping collar with threaded adjustment. It is nice solution

 

[Texas777]

I suspect they use the "old" 5100 simply because no one has the "new" yet. :shrug:

Well, you have to ask, what is "new" about them? If they have the same size tube the Toytec coilover should fit. The coilover is just a clamping collar with threaded adjustment. It is nice solution

I've been told that the dampening is ~15% different between the new and old version. Not sure if that combined with the spring rate makes a bit of difference in the grand scheme or not? Also not sure if the shock dimensions have changed.

 

[1engineer]

OK, before I get flamed for bringing up "new" design 5100's and Toytec coilovers, let me say that I've read every thread I can get my hands on and can't find where the subject has been covered. I see that both the subject of 5100's and Coilovers has been covered ad nauseum already, so I get the collective "sigh"!eep:

I ordered a set of the "new" 5100's months ago, just received them, and am contemplating adding Toytec coilovers while the truck is apart. Being new to 4Runners having recently bought a '14 Trail, I thought just the 5100's would largely cure the porpoising issue in the front end, but am now of the understanding it will take coils too in order to get it done. Can't add a 2.5-3" lift (would really like to) as I use the truck to shuttle clients around frequently. Just looking to level and fix the nose dive. Does anyone know if this combo will work? I know that Toytec uses the previous generation 5100 for their pre-built kit, but am not sure if its because they don't want to carry two different shocks, or if they have built it to go with that particular shock, etc.?

Adjustable Front Coil Over Kit for Bilstein Shocks 2010+

Any other coil options I've missed that will give 1" or less lift?

Thanks

You of course can do what you want but think for a minute:
Pretend you have completely removed your front shocks. How heavy a spring would you need to get rid of the nose dive? Sure it could be done but would you want to ride around in it? A race car would have better suspension.
Now pretend you have your OEM springs on there with a nice set of shocks. What would need to be done to the shocks to mitigate the nose dive issue? Stiffer shock? Bigger area shock? Adjustable shock? Enter the 5100.

Your shock is what controls the spring not the other way around. So if that's the case why would your vehicle nose dive in hard braking?

Heavier springs are for heavier loads, both static and dynamic.

 

[Texas777]

You of course can do what you want but think for a minute:
Pretend you have completely removed your front shocks. How heavy a spring would you need to get rid of the nose dive? Sure it could be done but would you want to ride around in it? A race car would have better suspension.
Now pretend you have your OEM springs on there with a nice set of shocks. What would need to be done to the shocks to mitigate the nose dive issue? Stiffer shock? Bigger area shock? Adjustable shock? Enter the 5100.

Your shock is what controls the spring not the other way around. So if that's the case why would your vehicle nose dive in hard braking?

Heavier springs are for heavier loads, both static and dynamic.

Looks like I've been over-researching then and picked up on some bad information. (no offense to anyone in other suspension threads). I thought both the springs and shocks sucked and woud need replacing to work in concert. If 5100's alone largely cure the ill, then all the better. No need to drop another $600 needlessly. Thanks!

 

[1engineer]

Looks like I've been over-researching then and picked up on some bad information given your point. (no offense to anyone in other suspension threads). if 5100's largely cure the ill, then all the better. No need to drop another $600 needlessly. Thanks.

Nothing, short of welding a bar in place of your spring, will completely remove the nose dive. If you added a heavier spring + a better shock you would reduce it more but if you are not carrying around a steel front bumper, winch, skids and everything else then the ride would really suffer. 5100's are a very good compromise with the stock suspension. Firms up the quick jolt (like hard braking) but allows you to have a decent ride that a softer spring will give you on the highway.

 

[crackiswack]

Nothing, short of welding a bar in place of your spring, will completely remove the nose dive. If you added a heavier spring + a better shock you would reduce it more but if you are not carrying around a steel front bumper, winch, skids and everything else then the ride would really suffer. 5100's are a very good compromise with the stock suspension. Firms up the quick jolt (like hard braking) but allows you to have a decent ride that a softer spring will give you on the highway.

Now for the counter argument. Its all about balance in regards to how "stiff" a suspension should be, and if the vehicle is being optimized for onroad or offroad characteristics, or a balance of both. I personally think the 4runner is underspringed for those that mostly do onroad driving. IIRC the springrates are similar to the FJ which is 400lbs lighter. The nose dive and body roll even on my Trail with KDSS is pretty bad, and was unacceptable IME on the SR5. I'm coming from a sport edition 4th gen with the XREAS shocks which handles much better in the corners than my 5th gen. Using the eibach springs in the toytec coilover with a 620lb springrate is only ~10% higher than the 550lb stock springrate. So it might ride slightly worse over bumpy terrain but could increase handling and decrease nose dive significantly. Just wanted a full perspective to be provided to the OP.

 

[jrob]

You of course can do what you want but think for a minute:
Pretend you have completely removed your front shocks. How heavy a spring would you need to get rid of the nose dive? Sure it could be done but would you want to ride around in it? A race car would have better suspension.
Now pretend you have your OEM springs on there with a nice set of shocks. What would need to be done to the shocks to mitigate the nose dive issue? Stiffer shock? Bigger area shock? Adjustable shock? Enter the 5100.

Your shock is what controls the spring not the other way around. So if that's the case why would your vehicle nose dive in hard braking?

Heavier springs are for heavier loads, both static and dynamic.

Springs work in conjunction with the shock, not independently.
Nose dive under braking is an increased dynamic load, which is what the OP is trying to combat.
It is important to appropriately match damping to spring rate. Too much damping on a light spring (factory) and you could potentially overdamp the setup, especially if the new bilsteins are 15% stiffer in the damping department.
Even prior to my bumper standard toytec coils with bilsteins ride great on the street with no nosedive. <-- Personal experience.

 

[Texas777]

Thanks for the input and perspective guys. Not really sure which way to go, but guess either route will probably be significantly better than what is in place today.