"New Grease for the Solid axle"

[tranny Frank]

Facinating,

This is fascinating:snacker:,

I'm learning so much about trucks that I will never own, and curious grease that I will never buy.

ur7x,

So it is, quite fascinating but what you have to ask yourself is if they can pull this off what other things are they doing?

As For Rixxer, I have put up, and you have seen a sample or so you say, As far as it instantly being proven lousy then what you can go buy @ the parts store,

Well thats if you could even buy it, Go ask you local parts store for some #0 grease for the steering link, that Toyota Sales specifies to use,

And see if they have any, see if they even know what it is ? Doubtful that they do, the parts guys eyes will glaze over and get twichy and sell you some #2

So as you know of the test of this goop in a Jeep axle (that isnt even particullary designed for this goop) is going on a few months, last I heard no noise, no containment issues,

I have Rigs going on 2 plus years of testing, I spose I could tear it out and look @ it, but no reason to,

I will have to crack open my Exploder soon to do a lower ball joint so I will take pics of that,

Now as the saying goes I could cram my head up a bulls ass to see if the T bone steak is any good but its easier to take the butchers word for it,

And besides I had to cram my way up the Toyota sales Dudes ass to find where this was coming from, and to start pulling you out,

 

[tranny Frank]

Put up or shut up

Shut up about Longfield already.
And Kurt, and Marlin crawler, and on and on.
Put up or shut up frank.
I already know you won't.
You KNOW as soon as you do, you'll be left without a leg to stand on, your grease will instantly be able to be proven inferior to stuff that people can buy at any parts store.
And incorrect for Toyota applications to boot.

You KNOW this.
So do I.
THAT'S why you won't post what it is.

I have sent a sample of this grease, 1 gallon to Kurt, a put up, and he shut up,

I have sent a sample of this grease To Longfield as well as the #1 RCV grease and a known #1 grade to compare, as well as CV joint lube from Napa,

So I put up and he shut up,

I have contacted Marlin Crawler, talked to Chris there and he said he would look into it and order a gallon, but then didnt, but was real nice said that it sounded like the lube for the fan clutches that only "Marlin" himself knew where to get,

So they shut up without even a put up, clammed up solid, hiding behind the Toyota sales defenses that are under attack:ak472:

I would offer you a put up, and have actually so you will shut up with your Toyota sales babble, but wont take it, wont try it,

Cant figer out how to get the lube in there because of some super duper steering arm that covers the fill hole,
But your in luck, since then Christo Slee, sent him a sample and shut him up as well, came up with a tool to grease the spindle, from the wheel bearing side,

So got you covered there, So thats the put up, will send you a test sample, but you will have to agree to subject your rig to the most horrendous Shock loading, leave it in a puddle of water for a week over the axles, Shock load it some more, beat the ever lovin dog crap out of it, Chain as much weight to the frt bumper as you dare, and Jump it,

Suck it down on the trailer as tight as possible and then drive the trailer over miles on miles of pot holes,

Loaded Shock loading while not moving this is the worst, Up for it or just going to keep coming back with more of Your Toyota Sales BS ???

And you never did answer my ? Did Toyota production put together a leaky POS that lasts a fraction of the time as Ol Domestic Piles ? that spec a fluid grease ?

Massive put up, so you will shut up,

 

[Rix]

Didn't figure you'd man up.
Guess I'm still right.

 

[tranny Frank]

Below the level of the axle seal

Shut up about Longfield already.
And Kurt, and Marlin crawler, and on and on.
Put up or shut up frank.
I already know you won't.
You KNOW as soon as you do, you'll be left without a leg to stand on, your grease will instantly be able to be proven inferior to stuff that people can buy at any parts store.
And incorrect for Toyota applications to boot.

You KNOW this.
So do I.
THAT'S why you won't post what it is.

THAT'S why you won't post what it is.

One step @ a time Rixatus, I have to Educate you about the simple easily identifiable aspects of this grease before we move on to petrol chemical engineering,

It would be absolutely worthless to begin the Level 3 discussions when you have not passed the lower levels ,

Your hovering on Level 3 occasionally but still are stuck, Identifying grades is very simple, and so far you still think it is axle seal failure and you make things all better by changing out a little seal,
No

When I get you out Rixatus then we can discuss these things, but only after your re educated,

OKAY ?

 

[tranny Frank]

Okay Rixxer

Didn't figure you'd man up.
Guess I'm still right.

Rixxer I actually have already told you what this is, but it was a bit of a "Information overload" for you,

I think the thread is called "When you want to know and Care Rixxer here is some information"

Back in the darkness of the4x4network,

Rixatus Luciferous Perpetua,

 

[tranny Frank]

Okay Rixxer

Okay Rixxer,

So here is a sample of a confidentiality agreement,

Confidentiality Agreement

Executive summary:

A confidentiality or non-disclosure agreement is crucial for an inventor or any other party who needs to protect confidential information. As the importance of the confidential information increases, so does the relative complexity of the Agreement. This page presents only the basic elements of a non-disclosure agreement. The presented sample contract does not contain the more complex elements that would be required in a larger agreement. This page is divided into three parts:

important elements of a confidential disclosure agreement,
sample agreement containing these elements, and
alternative sources for information on confidentiality agreements.

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Important Elements:

Definition of Confidential Information. The most important part of the confidentiality agreement is the definition of Confidential Information. Ideally, the contract should set forth as specifically as possible the scope of information covered by the agreement. The disclosing party may be reluctant to describe the information in the contract, for fear that some of the confidential information might be revealed in the contract itself.
Explanation of Purpose for Disclosure. Confidential information is only revealed to another party for a specific purpose. The agreement should set forth what the purpose is.
Disclosure. Many confidentiality agreements do not have a disclosure provision. This provision states that in return for agreeing to keep the information confidential, the Recipient has the right to receive the information. Since this puts a duty on the Discloser to disclose its confidential information, the Discloser should carefully consider the scope of any such provision.
No Disclosure. The Recipient must agree not to disclose the information to third parties. The extent of this provision to a large extent controls the "strength" of the non-disclosure agreement. Typical disclosure provision issues that may be faced in drafting and negotiating a confidentiality agreement include:
whether or not to include a "best efforts" clause,
whether to limit access of Recipient employees to a "need to know" basis, and
whether Recipient should merely agree to protect the confidential information in a manner similar to the way the Recipient protects its own confidential information.
No Use. Some non-disclosure agreements forget this important element. The Discloser wants to make sure the Recipient does not use the information for any purpose other than that set forth in the agreement.
Limits on Information Deemed Confidential. Practically every non-disclosure or confidentiality agreement puts some limits on the type of information that will be deemed confidential. For instance, if the Recipient already knew the information before it was revealed by the Discloser, or if the information was revealed to the Recipient by a third party, that information will not be treated as confidential under the agreement. Other possible limits include information that becomes publicly known, information that is requested by order of a government agency, or information that is independently developed. The Discloser may require a certain level of proof before such information is considered non-confidential.
Term. The term provision of a confidentiality agreement can be extremely important. The term must be long enough to protect the interests of the Disclosing party. Nonetheless, the term should not unduly burden the Recipient. Example term provisions would have the agreement last one or five years. Alternatively, the agreement could last indefinitely, as is shown in the example contract.
Other Provisions. Other provisions that are commonly found in confidentiality agreements include:
a provision allowing the remainder of an agreement to stay in effect even if a portion of the agreement is found to be unenforceable,
a provision stating that the agreement is binding on heirs and assigns,
a provision calling for a return of confidential materials after use by Recipient,
a provision stating that the Discloser has the right to receive an injunction from a court if the agreement is breached,
a provision specifically specifying that the Discloser owns all confidential information,
a provision specifying that disputes should be arbitrated, and
a provision governing the controlling law for the contract.

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Confidential Disclosure Agreement:

This Agreement is entered into this ___ day of ________, 200__ by and between ______________________ with offices at _____________________ (hereinafter "Recipient") and ______________________, with offices at _____________________ (hereinafter "Discloser").

WHEREAS Discloser possesses certain ideas and information relating to __________________ that is confidential and proprietary to Discloser (hereinafter "Confidential Information"); and

WHEREAS the Recipient is willing to receive disclosure of the Confidential Information pursuant to the terms of this Agreement for the purpose of _______________________;

NOW THEREFORE, in consideration for the mutual undertakings of the Discloser and the Recipient under this Agreement, the parties agree as follows:

1. Disclosure. Discloser agrees to disclose, and Receiver agrees to receive the Confidential Information.

2. Confidentiality.

2.1 No Use. Recipient agrees not to use the Confidential Information in any way, or to manufacture or test any product embodying Confidential Information, except for the purpose set forth above.

2.2 No Disclosure. Recipient agrees to use its best efforts to prevent and protect the Confidential Information, or any part thereof, from disclosure to any person other than Recipient's employees having a need for disclosure in connection with Recipient's authorized use of the Confidential Information.

2.3 Protection of Secrecy. Recipient agrees to take all steps reasonably necessary to protect the secrecy of the Confidential Information, and to prevent the Confidential Information from falling into the public domain or into the possession of unauthorized persons.

3. Limits on Confidential Information. Confidential Information shall not be deemed proprietary and the Recipient shall have no obligation with respect to such information where the information:

(a) was known to Recipient prior to receiving any of the Confidential Information from Discloser;

(b) has become publicly known through no wrongful act of Recipient;

(c) was received by Recipient without breach of this Agreement from a third party without restriction as to the use and disclosure of the information;

(d) was independently developed by Recipient without use of the Confidential Information; or

(e) was ordered to be publicly released by the requirement of a government agency.

4. Ownership of Confidential Information. Recipient agrees that all Confidential Information shall remain the property of Discloser, and that Discloser may use such Confidential Information for any purpose without obligation to Recipient. Nothing contained herein shall be construed as granting or implying any transfer of rights to Recipient in the Confidential Information, or any patents or other intellectual property protecting or relating to the Confidential Information.

5. Term and Termination. The obligations of this Agreement shall be continuing until the Confidential Information disclosed to Recipient is no longer confidential.

6. Survival of Rights and Obligations. This Agreement shall be binding upon, inure to the benefit of, and be enforceable by (a) Discloser, its successors, and assigns; and (b) Recipient, its successors and assigns.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the parties have executed this agreement effective as of the date first written above.

DISCLOSER (Frank_____________________) RECIPIENT (__Rich___________________)
Signedp ______________________________ Title: ________________________________ Date: ________________________________ Signed: ______________________________ Print Name: ___________________________ Title: ________________________________ Date: ________________________________



Theres that Hereinafter and wheretofor hithertofore and all that ,


So Rixxer what I will do as I have in the past that will hold up in any patent court is mail myself a letter with all the pertanant information, drawings, fomulas and whathaveyou,

And not open it, post marked, dated and unopened is the best assurance , for my "Proprietary Goop" so if down the Road Rixxer comes up with the same TSTSG then I have proof on my idea,

So lets get busy Rixxer, Testing, formulating and maybee even coming up with a better Goop, What do you think ?

 

[ur7x]

ur7x,

So it is, quite fascinating but what you have to ask yourself is if they can pull this off what other things are they doing?

As For Rixxer, I have put up, and you have seen a sample or so you say, As far as it instantly being proven lousy then what you can go buy @ the parts store,

Well thats if you could even buy it, Go ask you local parts store for some #0 grease for the steering link, that Toyota Sales specifies to use,

And see if they have any, see if they even know what it is ? Doubtful that they do, the parts guys eyes will glaze over and get twichy and sell you some #2

So as you know of the test of this goop in a Jeep axle (that isnt even particullary designed for this goop) is going on a few months, last I heard no noise, no containment issues,

I have Rigs going on 2 plus years of testing, I spose I could tear it out and look @ it, but no reason to,

I will have to crack open my Exploder soon to do a lower ball joint so I will take pics of that,

Now as the saying goes I could cram my head up a bulls ass to see if the T bone steak is any good but its easier to take the butchers word for it,

And besides I had to cram my way up the Toyota sales Dudes ass to find where this was coming from, and to start pulling you out,

Wow that's,

hard,

to read,

are you trying to make your posts look,

goofy on purpose,

or by accident?, ?. &


As for what it Toyota trying to pull,?,

beats me, I owned a 1999 4Runner Limited for over 10 years;

bare bones maintenance on that truck,

in 10+ years of ownership,,

other than normal maintenance, all the truck needed was

a set of starter contacts,,,

and a TPS,,, both installed by me (about $50 total in parts), and that's it,

when we sold it in, EVERYTHING still worked like new, $5 per year in your break/fix budget is FREAKING amazing... I've had GM cars that have a break/fix budget of around $5 a WEEK!

The 2003 4Runner Limited that we also have has been almost,

as,

good,

Other than one seized caliper, truck has been rock solid,

I have yet to find a 3rd, 4th or 5th Gen 4Runner owner who isn't impressed with how reliable these trucks are, So what it Toyota trying to pull? Looks to me that they are trying to build some of the most reliable trucks that exist. And it looks to me that they are achieving just that.

Now, on the other hand, what are YOU trying to pull?

Looks to me that you are a vendor,

trying to sell an unproven, rather pricey, product,

who is at best,

on the edge of forum rules about multiple vendor solicitations.

 

[Rix]

Actually, frank you DON'T specifify what your grease is.
You say "it's STABLYN-927-MS or something like that", which doesn't seem to exhist.
Later you ramble about some hyundai grease "Amblygon TA 15 2"

Post it up frank. Get it over with.

Here's the thread, BTW
http://www.the4x4network.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3252

 

[tranny Frank]

Toyota sales

Actually, frank you DON'T specifify what your grease is.
You say "it's STABLYN-927-MS or something like that", which doesn't seem to exhist.
Later you ramble about some hyundai grease "Amblygon TA 15 2"

Post it up frank. Get it over with.

Here's the thread, BTW
• View topic - When you want to know and care Rix, heres some information,

You get it over with Rixxer,

Post up the answer to the question, Did Toyota build a leaking POS that lasts a mere fraction of the time as the Old School Dana axle ??? of the same basic design.???

Then your moving on to signing "confidentiality contracts" and knowing what this goop is,

You need to step out of the Toyota Sales Cool aid line,

 

[tranny Frank]

Very Sorry,

Wow that's,

hard,

to read,

are you trying to make your posts look,

goofy on purpose,

or by accident?, ?. &


As for what it Toyota trying to pull,?,

beats me, I owned a 1999 4Runner Limited for over 10 years;

bare bones maintenance on that truck,

in 10+ years of ownership,,

other than normal maintenance, all the truck needed was

a set of starter contacts,,,

and a TPS,,, both installed by me (about $50 total in parts), and that's it,

when we sold it in, EVERYTHING still worked like new, $5 per year in your break/fix budget is FREAKING amazing... I've had GM cars that have a break/fix budget of around $5 a WEEK!

The 2003 4Runner Limited that we also have has been almost,

as,

good,

Other than one seized caliper, truck has been rock solid,

I have yet to find a 3rd, 4th or 5th Gen 4Runner owner who isn't impressed with how reliable these trucks are, So what it Toyota trying to pull? Looks to me that they are trying to build some of the most reliable trucks that exist. And it looks to me that they are achieving just that.

Now, on the other hand, what are YOU trying to pull?

Looks to me that you are a vendor,

trying to sell an unproven, rather pricey, product,

who is at best,

on the edge of forum rules about multiple vendor solicitations.

I will work on making my posts easier to read, my apologies if its hard to read. Now just in case you missed it because of my post formats. I will type it out again. Toyota Motor production builds great stuff, that lasts, does not fail, works good, better for longer. If you dont realize this than your just plain lying to yourself, Good Rigs, In my immediate area of specialization, the AT transmission field, these import rigs will out last domestic units hands down 2 to 1.

So to be clear here, Toyota is a great rig, as evident in the obvious, So again Toyota production uses the best grease available, not just some run of the mill #2 grease in this application, And did not build a leaking POS out of replicated 1930.s Tech,
Hopefully you can read this and understand it is not Toyota production, but the Sales dept that tells you this thing uses a #2 grease, and leads you to conclude seal failure causes the thin proprietary grease,

So much so is the diagnosis of this seal failure aftermarket companies have to re design a simple seal that Toyota production screwed up, If your to believe the Sales Dept of Toyota, Now is that easier to read ? with your "Master of the Obvious" post of Toyota rigs being so darn good. Do you think they loused up this 1930 technology and built a leaking POS , Since our Resident Toyota Sales trained grease swapping monkey does not care to comment,?

Hows that ?

And who is at best,

on the edge of forum rules about multiple vendor solicitations.


And This, No we are not really in the Marketing phase of this, but the re-educational phase, Then once We get Rixxer out of the Toyota sales cool aid line then the marketing will begin or Maybee Not,

Because there is Theory #2 as to why Toyota Sales does not sell this grease, which has definite logic behind it, good reasoning as shared by the long time technical writer for both Jeep and Toyota, Moses Ludel, brings up a excellent point that I have also pondered as to why this grease is unavailable to the main stream,

So Maybe Thai would like to take a stab @ what that may bee

 

[Rix]

It's fairly obvious that you're scared to post up the info.

 

[tranny Frank]

Your not A Master yet Rixxer,

It's fairly obvious that you're scared to post up the info.

Rixxer,

Just in case you did not understand, This information is proprietary, Intellectual property,

And you need to sign a non disclosure contract to be privy to this information,

What part of that do you not understand ?

Besides your just stalling,

 

[Rix]

I know you're scared, frank. It's ok to be scared. If I'd failed as completely as you have, I'd throw myself on my sword.
Hide behind your "intelectual property" and "proprietary information" all you want.
It's b.s. and you know it.

 

[tranny Frank]

You never fail unless you quit trying

I know you're scared, frank. It's ok to be scared. If I'd failed as completely as you have, I'd throw myself on my sword.
Hide behind your "intelectual property" and "proprietary information" all you want.
It's b.s. and you know it.

I am not scared, I have researched this design, Reverse engineered it and legally obtained a Toyota Trade Secret.
It is engineered for a fluid lubricant, This is obvious to the trained eye,

It is all legit, the only BS that I am guilty of is saying I called Fujio Chow, but that should have been a obvious Joke,

Step out of the Toyota Sales Cool aid line Rixxer,

 

[Rix]

Fujio Cho is NOWHERE NEAR the only thing you've lied about, frank.
It's just the only one you've admitted to.

 

[tranny Frank]

Oh

Fujio Cho is NOWHERE NEAR the only thing you've lied about, frank.
It's just the only one you've admitted to.

Figered I would clear that up before you brought it up,

So Did Toyota production put together a leaky POS ?

Have a better answer for the Drain in the spindle rather than "Dust Bunnies"

Rixatus ?

 

[tranny Frank]

Shiver me whiskers, Rixxer

I know you're scared, frank. It's ok to be scared. If I'd failed as completely as you have, I'd throw myself on my sword.
Hide behind your "intelectual property" and "proprietary information" all you want.
It's b.s. and you know it.

Rixatus,

There are many "Proprietary" greases and oils, It is not BS and you are learning that,

here is a example

Robo-Guard 00

JAX Robo-Guard 00 is a grease manufactured with an advanced, proprietary thickener. This newly enhanced technology provides exceptional mechanical stability, very high load-carrying ability and remarkable rust and corrosion control. In addition, JAX Robo-Guard 00 has excellent water condensate resistance and outstanding high-temperature performance characteristics. This technology is combined with a new partial synthetic base fluid to make JAX

Quite common for a grease to be proprietary, And no need to rub it in, When I first started on this I was told it would take a couple of years, so a bit behind schedule,

But there are folks that understand what is going on here, afterall it is rather Obvious, and we have Thai here that hopes I am right,

And We could talk about theory #2 as to why Toyota does not just sell this grease.

 

[tranny Frank]

Theory #2

Theory #2 as to why you do not have this type of production lube, is that your incapable of using it properly,

Cause to much trouble, not perform the job properly, This is why I am considering just making it available to qualified personal such as yourself Rixxer,

I think your capable of using it, or @ least allow you to make that decision for yourself,

While Moses here would probrobly not like this, I dont care need some professional help to pull Rixxer out,

So here is what he has to say,, Are you the 8 baller Rixxer, or can you handle factory Lubrication on these Import Rigs,,,

Yep it aint just Yotas folks,,,


Hi, Frank...Go to the Automatic Transmission Workshop at the website. There
is a sub-menu item for the 'Q&A' at that section. (I launched the Q&A for
the section in the wee hours this morning.) You'll find my comments on the
AW-4 plus your 45RFE/545 troubleshooting pearls.

As for the Ross cam-and-lever steering gear, EP rated gear oil or quality
semi-fluid grease will work here. (I do not recommend semi-fluid for other
steering gear types unless specified.) I'd like to play with the EP-rated
polyurea CV-joint grease. This grease is contemporary and covers your butt
on liability when specified for CV-joints, i.e., axle shaft joints.

As for oil-filled wheel hubs, you and I both can find examples of oiled hubs
working just fine. There is also the "weird" grease you describe, found in
the wheel hubs of Isuzu 4x4s (Geo Trackers, too). It's quite possible that
your assumptions are correct with regard to first-fill greases. There may
well be a distinction between OE fill grease and the OE-recommended service
greases for the U.S. market. As an automotive writer, however, unless I have
proof of the actual grease type used as OE at first-fill, I cannot wing it
with presumptions based on the Old Man Willys theme. I, and my book
publisher, would be vulnerable to lawsuits...

Although I am characterizing my position as a writer, this actually applies
to you as well. Let's say some eight ball reads your recommendations, based
upon your years of research. You proclaim your hearty recommendation that
semi-fluid grease is wonderful for both closed knuckles and for wheel
bearings. He accepts your mantra, decides to change grease, and in the
process uses Stoddard solvent for cleaning. He "fills" the knuckle cavities,
and without drying the bearings, he does a half-assed job of slopping grease
on the bearings (without a packer or our time-honored, scup method of hand
packing)...Then he misadjusts the bearings (too loose or tight, take your
pick) and heads out on the highway. The solvent-thinned grease runs like
sewing machine oil over the brakes, partially due to his bad installation of
the inner wheel seals. Meanwhile, the misadjusted bearings create a wheel
wobble that is aggravated by loose knuckle bearings (kingpin shimmy) and
sagging vintage springs, which have dropped the caster angle to 0-degrees.

Now the accident occurs because the Jeep, Land Cruiser, Samurai, you name it
with a closed knuckle front axle, cannot stop or loses control. The legal
issues sort out in the pending lawsuit, and eight ball is asked how he
services his truck and to what standards...Before it's through, the
semi-fluid grease, unless OE recommended for the wheel bearings and hubs, is
found to be the "culprit". Get the picture? Who will they point the finger
at, and will you have legally binding, counterpoint proof for your defense?

You may think this unimportant, but we do live in a sue-happy, juridical
society. To date, I have never been sued or accused of malfeasance in my
recommendations or edicts. That is because I cover my comments with facts
from OEM and product manufacturer sources. Obviously, when I know that OEM
information is incorrect, I rectify the error by using other "official"
information that does make sense, or I simply omit the use of that reference
and guideline...This is not the same as using a 1941Willys reference to
justify the use of NLGI #0, #1 or #2 fibrous sodium grease in a 1992 Land
Cruiser's front axle. The better legal argument would be to prove that the
Land Cruiser's first fill was fibrous sodium grease of a specific NLGI
rating.

While I hinted that you and I should have pursued mechanical engineering
degrees, I did go as far as to earn a pre-law degree, which has served me
well for making comments and recommendations in the public arena. It's great
to be "right" in a perfect world. In this world, we have to be thoughtful
about the things we proclaim, especially when recommending mechanical
solutions that veer from a manufacturer's recommendations.

Now, if you're bent on exposing the Toyota, Isuzu, Geo Tracker and other
mystery greases, the simplest solution is to snag a sample of OE, first-fill
grease from a suitable model and have it laboratory analyzed to identify its
chemistry and NLGI rating. As far as these manufacturers' motives for using
these greases, maybe these greases are available in the Asian market; maybe
U.S.-formula grease is not. It would be interesting to note whether Toyota
4x4s built in the U.S. use the same first-fill grease as those built in
Japan. If so, what is that grease and where is it available?

I'm focused on today's North American market greases, which makes me
curiosity about polyurea grease designed for CV-joints and wheel bearings.
Vintage closed knuckle axle tests could confirm containment, ball face
filming, inner seal survival and wheel bearing service.

Regards,

Moses

 

[Hyde802]

This thread makes my head hurt. Im sorry I read it. Haha.

 

[Rix]

Post if frank. Or just continue to lay your rotten, dead eggs.