New Head Gasket vs. New Engine???

[calinaki]

Got a 95 with a 3VZE that's had a string of bad luck lately! Just smacked a deer on the hwy 6 miles after she rolled over the 200,000 mark. Damage wasn't too bad but I'm replacing everything from the license plate to the fan clutch. The rest of the rig is in great shape! Anyway, I've been having overheating issues for the past year or so but could never get any signs of a bad head gasket to surface so I had replaced the radiator, tstat, fan clutch, did a flush, etc, etc, etc.

Just today I decided to look under the oil cap again just for the heck of it and wouldn't ya know it, white residue! So I guess that save's me the cost of a HG testing kit.

Now I'm wondering if I should buy a new engine instead of messing around with the head gasket. The head gasket had already been replaced before I bought the rig but I think they only did one side because it had a burnt valve too. I have no plans of selling it and would like to drive it for MANY more years but don't want to pay labor for an engine swap but am a little intimidated by the thought of changing it out myself. Anyone have experience or thoughts on if I should just go in after the HG and replace??? As far as my "skill" ... I do all the regular maintenance and have done water pumps and timing belts, etc. but have never dropped a tranny or pulled an engine.

Looks like I could get a "new" (or rebuilt or whatever) 3vze online for about $1,500. Looks like they use steel HG's now so no issues with them blowing evidently.

Thanks!!!!!

 

[Footofgod]

Thanks!!!!!

Depends on your budget. If you have the budget and knowlege to trade out the 3.0 for a 3.4 5VZEm that is the better option. If not, just repair the 3.0.

 

[calinaki]

So you wouldn't recommend getting a new 3vze? I've looked into the 3.4 swap and looks like alot of extra work since things are setup a little differently. I'm fine with the power of the 3.0.

 

[Footofgod]

Just rebuild the one you have.

 

[2ndGen4runner4x4]

I am in the same situation right now. I have 198K miles and did the head gasket's only to have a knock show up in the engine.
"Just rebuild it yourself" is easy to say if you have a qualified machine shop nearby but you may be better off simply sourcing a long block. Good luck!

 

[calinaki]

As much as I really would love to just start tearing into the engine I have and rebuild it,.... one, I've never rebuilt an engine before; two, not sure I'd have the time to commit to it; three, with it being my first time, i'm not sure how well i'd sleep at night after or if I could ever really confidently take it into the mountains or on a long trip without breaking into a sweat at the slightest sound that seems a little wrong. I got a wife and two kids and my 4-runner is not a 4-wheeler but more of a commuter that has the ability to get our family way up into the mountains for camping, hiking, and such.

Maybe I'm being silly, but, that's kinda why i was thinking of just biting the bullet and throwing in a new engine so I could start with a clean slate and also know (theoretically) that I shouldn't have to touch the engine for a while.

What is easier??? ...throwing in a new long block or rebuilding the engine I have? I almost want to say that throwing in a new engine would be even easier that just the head gasket job? now maybe that's crazy talk.

 

[KidVermicious]

The thought of pulling the head is intimidating if you haven't done it before, but it doesn't need to be. I just did the head for the first time on my 22RE, and the bark is worse than the bite for sure. It's really just turning wrenches - you know how to do that, right?

If you have something else to drive for a bit and a place to work on it, I'd do it yourself. It cost me $65 for the top end gasket set, and $30 to get my head cleaned and checked out at the machine shop, plus whatever for new coolant and such. Machining my warped exhaust manifold was another $20. You've got two heads to do, but I bet you get out under $200 unless one of the heads is bad and needs rebuilt. All you need are basic tools and a torque wrench. Give yourself time - it took me a couple weeks of puttering after work and one long weekend to get it done, but I spent a lot of time screwing around, staring at it, reading the factory service manual and online writeups, drinking beer and scratching my chin and trying to stay oriented, had to back up and redo things a couple times to make sure I knew I had it right. Get a friend over - there's nothing you can't do by yourself, but it'll go faster with a buddy to keep you motivated. Start a thread on it or use this one and ask lots of questions - the guys here were a huge help keeping me on track. Label EVERYTHING you disconnect - all the coolant lines, vacuum lines, everything. I scribbled all over my motor and hoses with a whiteout pen , I saw another guy use cable ties with labels, whatever, just make sure you know where everything goes back to.

Now that I've done it once, I'm not at all intimidated by the prospect of having to do it again down the road, and you shouldn't be either - you can save yourself a grip of coin. I'd only consider a new motor now if I knew both the top and bottom ends were thrashed, and even then I'd consider rebuilding my block myself instead of replacing it with another built block (barring a swap, of course). If you've got the coin for a 5vze swap, go for it, but if not, do your gaskets yourself. Besides, with the money you'll save on buying a longblock it's a great chance to sell your wife on a set of LCE headers so you don't burn a gasket again :.

 

[SwiftRunner]

Head Gasket

First of all, I am in the same situation. I have been reading and posting on this forum for a year now and mulling over the decision. I know the passenger side head gasket leaks and has been getting worse. I think that the driver's side leaks as well, but the passenger side sprays oil on the exhaust system and has been getting worse. This has gone on for a couple of years as I remember. Secondly, the reason I have not fixed it yet would be the same one that keeps you from doing it yourself, calinake, confidence and courage. I found a commercial garage where they agreed to do it. However, I just pulled the SUV out of their lot after it sat there for ten days without any attention. I got another quote for the heads and one for the rear main seal that leaks as well. They were talking 5 grand for a rebuild here on Cape Cod. An engine swap would be roughly the same if they do it. The second shop will charge me for 20 hours of work at $90+ per hour. Being a resort/retirement community, I have found that there aren't enough workers for the amount of work that needs to be done. The last time I checked the stealership wanted $100 per hour. The vehicle is now sitting in my hanger. Although, I do have that kind of money, I'm ready to do the passenger side head myself. One serious question would be is my '94 with 165,000 miles going to give me an equitable return on 5 Grand?

 

[loko ino]

when my HG blew the shop here quoted me $2500..mostly in labor.
The 3VZE is a PITA..I have a master mechanic buddy who basically did all the work while I was his gopher for 4 evenings. It really is not that bad, just have to mark everything. The worse part is the tools...there are a lot of "special" tools needed. He has been a mechanic for 20 years so he knew tricks that I never would have figured out. I estimated it would have taken me at least double what it took him..and I am pretty mechanically inclined.
That being said, if the price of new engine works out to the same as changing HG, water pump, and all the other stuff through a shop, I'd do new engine. If you can do it yourself it comes to about $750 depending on how much you swap out.
Another idea is $2500 toward a newer rig.....

 

[nevada]

Depends on your budget. If you have the budget and knowlege to trade out the 3.0 for a 3.4 5VZEm that is the better option. If not, just repair the 3.0.

this is the prefered solution.

forget the 3.0. and the 3.4 swap isnt that bad. you can straight up just buy the conversion harness, its then plug and play.

and, its a MUCH MUCH better engine.

 

[ToyoTech]

i would still check to make sure you have a BLOWN HEAD GASKET. i have seen white residue on newer tacomas with less than 10k miles. the reason for this on that taco was short drives and parked alot. moisture in the system will raise to the highest point and be trapped there. oil cap usually is a high point.

have you been needing to top of the coolant system? honestly the oil cap check isnt a good indicator of blown HG

 

[92-SR5]

i would still check to make sure you have a BLOWN HEAD GASKET. i have seen white residue on newer tacomas with less than 10k miles. the reason for this on that taco was short drives and parked alot. moisture in the system will raise to the highest point and be trapped there. oil cap usually is a high point.

have you been needing to top of the coolant system? honestly the oil cap check isnt a good indicator of blown HG

Smell the coolant. If it smells like exhaust, your HG is toast.

 

[crutchy]

i would still check to make sure you have a BLOWN HEAD GASKET. i have seen white residue on newer tacomas with less than 10k miles. the reason for this on that taco was short drives and parked alot. moisture in the system will raise to the highest point and be trapped there. oil cap usually is a high point.

have you been needing to top of the coolant system? honestly the oil cap check isnt a good indicator of blown HG

Ditto. Sounds like you may be jumping the gun on this one. Unless it looks like a milk shake in the oil pan I would do some more checking before removing a head. It also sounds like you are building it up too much, the job that is. Changing a head gasket is not that big of a task, you're not doing a complete overhaul or anything. If you do most of your own maintenance then just do a little reading and follow the instructions, you will be fine. If the most you've ever done is change the oil or battery, a shop might be a better choice for you. Loko the 3vze isn't that much of a pain in the grand scope of things. Work on a fwd northstar caddy, f-body or god forbid a 3000gt...now those are a PITA.

 

[calinaki]

First of all, I am in the same situation. I have been reading and posting on this forum for a year now and mulling over the decision. I know the passenger side head gasket leaks and has been getting worse. I think that the driver's side leaks as well, but the passenger side sprays oil on the exhaust system and has been getting worse. This has gone on for a couple of years as I remember. Secondly, the reason I have not fixed it yet would be the same one that keeps you from doing it yourself, calinake, confidence and courage. I found a commercial garage where they agreed to do it. However, I just pulled the SUV out of their lot after it sat there for ten days without any attention. I got another quote for the heads and one for the rear main seal that leaks as well. They were talking 5 grand for a rebuild here on Cape Cod. An engine swap would be roughly the same if they do it. The second shop will charge me for 20 hours of work at $90+ per hour. Being a resort/retirement community, I have found that there aren't enough workers for the amount of work that needs to be done. The last time I checked the stealership wanted $100 per hour. The vehicle is now sitting in my hanger. Although, I do have that kind of money, I'm ready to do the passenger side head myself. One serious question would be is my '94 with 165,000 miles going to give me an equitable return on 5 Grand?

Thanks SR! I was pretty intimidated before I started doing timing belts and looking back they seem pretty easy too. I agree that it seems like a manageable job if I can take a couple weeks and as long as I label everything. I have a good ol '82 22r 2wd toyota pickup I can drive while I work on the 4runner. I pretty sure I'm too cheap to pay someone to do a HG. I might pay someone to drop in a new engine but that's just because I'd be walking away with a new engine.

 

[calinaki]

The thought of pulling the head is intimidating if you haven't done it before, but it doesn't need to be. I just did the head for the first time on my 22RE, and the bark is worse than the bite for sure. It's really just turning wrenches - you know how to do that, right?

If you have something else to drive for a bit and a place to work on it, I'd do it yourself. It cost me $65 for the top end gasket set, and $30 to get my head cleaned and checked out at the machine shop, plus whatever for new coolant and such. Machining my warped exhaust manifold was another $20. You've got two heads to do, but I bet you get out under $200 unless one of the heads is bad and needs rebuilt. All you need are basic tools and a torque wrench. Give yourself time - it took me a couple weeks of puttering after work and one long weekend to get it done, but I spent a lot of time screwing around, staring at it, reading the factory service manual and online writeups, drinking beer and scratching my chin and trying to stay oriented, had to back up and redo things a couple times to make sure I knew I had it right. Get a friend over - there's nothing you can't do by yourself, but it'll go faster with a buddy to keep you motivated. Start a thread on it or use this one and ask lots of questions - the guys here were a huge help keeping me on track. Label EVERYTHING you disconnect - all the coolant lines, vacuum lines, everything. I scribbled all over my motor and hoses with a whiteout pen , I saw another guy use cable ties with labels, whatever, just make sure you know where everything goes back to.

Now that I've done it once, I'm not at all intimidated by the prospect of having to do it again down the road, and you shouldn't be either - you can save yourself a grip of coin. I'd only consider a new motor now if I knew both the top and bottom ends were thrashed, and even then I'd consider rebuilding my block myself instead of replacing it with another built block (barring a swap, of course). If you've got the coin for a 5vze swap, go for it, but if not, do your gaskets yourself. Besides, with the money you'll save on buying a longblock it's a great chance to sell your wife on a set of LCE headers so you don't burn a gasket again :.

Thanks for the confidence booster! that's really what I'm looking for. ; ) You should tell me more about the LCE header!!! I'm not familiar. If I'm gonna dig into this beast and change out a HG. I'd like to at least have another guaranteed 100K out of the engine. So can I buy some sort of steel, indestructible head gasket? What else should I look at or replace while i'm this deep into the engine???

 

[calinaki]

Smell the coolant. If it smells like exhaust, your HG is toast.

I sorta think I can smell exhaust in my overflow tank. In my quest to fix the overheating, I've:

replaced Tstat
Changed fan clutch
replaced radiator
done an engine flush

The condenser fins are clean and the fan and fan shroud are good. And the water pump was changed 8K ago.

Maybe I'll take a picture of the oil cap and let you guys tell me what you think.

 

[KidVermicious]

Thanks for the confidence booster! that's really what I'm looking for. ; ) You should tell me more about the LCE header!!! I'm not familiar. If I'm gonna dig into this beast and change out a HG. I'd like to at least have another guaranteed 100K out of the engine. So can I buy some sort of steel, indestructible head gasket? What else should I look at or replace while i'm this deep into the engine???

I'd change out/service anything you touch on the way in to the heads, and I'd strip down and clean the parts that aren't wear parts (valve covers, intake plenums, throttle bodies, etc). I think you'll go past your timing belt and water pump, so you might as well change those out while you're in there. Test out your TPS, check/replace all the temp sensors and thermostats, etc. No sense stripping down your top end and putting used crap back on, not if you don't want to do this again in another 20k .

Regarding the gasket, if you had a 22RE I'd tell you to call engnbldr. He doesn't do 3.0 stuff though, so your next best bet is probably going to talk to the guys at LC Engineering. Give them a call, tell them you're doing this for the first time, see what they can tell you and if they'll sell you a good set of gaskets. Have them tell you about their header, too.

 

[ToyoTech]

Oh really?

Toyota 3.0 V-6

Overheating for the past year but still no signs of a blown hg but yet you want to do a hg. Found out what's wrong 1st.

 

[calinaki]

Oh really?

Toyota 3.0 V-6

Overheating for the past year but still no signs of a blown hg but yet you want to do a hg. Found out what's wrong 1st.

Well, the overheating was always a sign of blown head gasket in my mind,... I just didn't want to accept it. I recently got the white crap under the oil cap so that's sign number 2 I guess. With a new radiator, tstat, water pump, and fan clutch, I can't think of any other reason than HG for the thing to overheat in 45 degree weather. I also get white smoke when I first start it up but It is cold outside and I've always gotten white smoke on cold mornings.

That engine kit looks like a pretty good deal btw. Is this Kit something you've purchased and used or did u just happen to run across it online?

 

[KidVermicious]

Oh really?

Toyota 3.0 V-6

Oh, cool. I had no idea he did 3vze stuff too.

Calinaki, engnbldr is the man. If you decide to do your head gaskets, get your goodies from him without a doubt. You won't find a bad review about the stuff he sells or his customer service, and he really knows his stuff. Call him up, tell him you're doing a set of HGs for the first time, and he'll hook you up.

If there's any doubt in your mind that you have a blown head gasket, have a shop give you a professional opinion first. They can do compression/leakdown tests, they can sniff your exhaust for coolant and your coolant for exhaust, they can analyze your oil, they've got all kinds of tricks to narrow it down.