Well I am running the rear lift 3" and front lift 3" but I am noticing that I don't have much traction in the wet. The tires was doing well before the lift now not to good. I am running Cooper Discover HT tires. Any advice? I have about 1/2 tread left now and the tires are 265/70/17 and if I upsize I will go larger size as well. But I don't want to buy new tires then have the same issue.
New lift now no traction????
- Thread starter mforce
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rajuncajun
New member
Might be a dumb question but did you get an alignment??
Un-aligned cars will have un even tread wear, but suspension is probably 2nd most important spec to having good/bad traction (contact patch coming 1st). If you put a soft suspension on, the weight distribution changes. If you raise the rig up, you change weight distribution. All key factors in determining how much traction your vehicle will have. So to me it is expected to see less traction, but my experience is in sport suspension setups n-whatnot so not sure how much a difference 3'' would make on a setup thats already made for ground clearance.
rideexileex
Senior Member
I'm not following on how a suspension would affect street traction, unless referring to cornering...
Jon
New member
That's it exactly. The stiffer the suspension, especially since it's new, the weight isn't going to transfer to the rear. Think about all the drag cars you see jumping off the line. The rear end drops a couple inches and the front comes up. Right now your rig is doing little of either one. Just physics bro.
Now a quick fix is dropping the tire pressure in the rear, lowest I'd go is 25psi. Or get yourself some 33's as an early present! What is your tire pressure?
IanB
New member
With less weight transfer than before the suspension lift, the rear tires will spin easier than before. Simple physics.
the great him
Elite Member
i get the weight transfer issue, but we are talking about a SUV that weighs 3700+ lbs, and has a 190hp and 220 ftlb(at best). its not like he has a v8 and is pushing 300hp. these trucks are not hot rods, the weight transfer is not a major factor for traction under acceleration.
for what its worth i have about 4-4.5" of lift in the rear with 2.3-3" in the front, with the "weight transfer" i dont even get level under normal driving while taking off from a stop. and i have to work at it to brake my tires lose, now granted i have a good set of all terrains but still...
for what its worth i have about 4-4.5" of lift in the rear with 2.3-3" in the front, with the "weight transfer" i dont even get level under normal driving while taking off from a stop. and i have to work at it to brake my tires lose, now granted i have a good set of all terrains but still...
(5000+) weight distribution is one of the biggest factors in traction. A simple equation in physics for friction is; Force of friction = (coefficient)(mass)(gravity) here we see mass (weight for instance) is dependant. So if your vehicle transfers more of the weight to the back under acceleration, it adds more mass to the back end, increasing friction (traction). If the car cant transfer weight to the back, then theres less, causing less friction. And when you are playing with 5000+ lbs you can bet on weight distribution being even more important. Err hopefully i didnt get too nerdy XD
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rideexileex
Senior Member
I'm with this...
To say "I get traction when dry, but not in wet", I think leads to a tire tread design and too much hope that a RWD truck will get perfect traction on adverse condition roads...
You dont need a lot of power to loose traction. Even in a strait line. All im saying is if you change a spec of your suspension, its to be expected to see a change in something else. But we have sollutions, larger contact patch (wide tires, less air in tire), different tread design combination. So hopefully as the OP breaks in the suspension he will start to see more traction.
the great him
Elite Member
too bad our 4runner have an almost perfect 50/50 weight distrubution... and actually stock the rear has more weight than the front.
after all of the armor i have put on my 4runner and extras (lights, rack, interior mods ect) i am sitting at pretty much a perfect 50/50 when i drive over the scales at the local steel yard(they weigh in at either the 10 or 20lb increments) and both put me at 2560lbs last time i drove over them will almost a full tank of fuel.
now with that being said i have added more weight to the front(full skids and bumper) of my truck while taking away weight out of the rear(removed spare tire and the mounting system for it).
so im not going to sit here and stay i know exactly how much ive added or taken away, but it only makes sense that ive added more weight to the front than i have to the rear. so with that i have good reason to believe(unless someone can prove to me other wise) that the 4runners have a darn good weight distribution from the factory. thus the argument of weight not transferring to the back is BS. i personally think its more of his tires and the fact that its probably recently started raining where the OP lives and all the oils from the spring summer driving have now been loosened(brought up to the surface) by the recent rains and now make the roads more slick. if you ask me its just a coincidence that the two happened around the same time
after all of the armor i have put on my 4runner and extras (lights, rack, interior mods ect) i am sitting at pretty much a perfect 50/50 when i drive over the scales at the local steel yard(they weigh in at either the 10 or 20lb increments) and both put me at 2560lbs last time i drove over them will almost a full tank of fuel.
now with that being said i have added more weight to the front(full skids and bumper) of my truck while taking away weight out of the rear(removed spare tire and the mounting system for it).
so im not going to sit here and stay i know exactly how much ive added or taken away, but it only makes sense that ive added more weight to the front than i have to the rear. so with that i have good reason to believe(unless someone can prove to me other wise) that the 4runners have a darn good weight distribution from the factory. thus the argument of weight not transferring to the back is BS. i personally think its more of his tires and the fact that its probably recently started raining where the OP lives and all the oils from the spring summer driving have now been loosened(brought up to the surface) by the recent rains and now make the roads more slick. if you ask me its just a coincidence that the two happened around the same time
the great him
Elite Member
well what tires do you have right now, that will play a lot into recommendation, along with what do you plan on doing with this truck, i mean is it a DD or are you going to be wheeling it a lot.
the thing is with sports cars their suspension and after markets suspensions are all about performance enhancing traction on road. -so it will be a lot easier to find different and adjust spring rates with a sports cars suspension. where as a truck, they are more for enhancing off road capabilities, ie lifts ect. while yes their are different spring rates out there, they are not as varied as say for a sports car. and they are also designed with the thought in mind that they will be used in a heavier vehicle. if you still think its a spring issue you might want to look at getting some LC coils. i dont know much about those downy springs, but i dont see to many guys running them. -not saying they are a bad spring, just not a popular spring. but like i said i have a hard time believing its a spring rate/weight transfer issue. -is your back end harsh going over bumps, say speed bumps?
i am running nitto terra grapplers and have loved them(this is my second set). they only draw back is they are not as aggressive as i wanted -thats my fault for buying a second set when i wanted something with more bite off road and in the mud and rocks. that being said, i still love these tires and they perform excellent and are very predictable in the snow and rain. i have not had them in much ice so that will have to wait till later to tell you about that. they dont do so hot in the mud as they tend to gum up like all AT tires do in mud, but they are by far not the worst tire ive had in the mud. on dirt and gravel roads they are great and are again predictable and provide outstanding traction considering the surface. and as far as dry pavement goes, a wonderful tire and a very confidence inspiring tire, and good road manors and wear evenly
the thing is with sports cars their suspension and after markets suspensions are all about performance enhancing traction on road. -so it will be a lot easier to find different and adjust spring rates with a sports cars suspension. where as a truck, they are more for enhancing off road capabilities, ie lifts ect. while yes their are different spring rates out there, they are not as varied as say for a sports car. and they are also designed with the thought in mind that they will be used in a heavier vehicle. if you still think its a spring issue you might want to look at getting some LC coils. i dont know much about those downy springs, but i dont see to many guys running them. -not saying they are a bad spring, just not a popular spring. but like i said i have a hard time believing its a spring rate/weight transfer issue. -is your back end harsh going over bumps, say speed bumps?
i am running nitto terra grapplers and have loved them(this is my second set). they only draw back is they are not as aggressive as i wanted -thats my fault for buying a second set when i wanted something with more bite off road and in the mud and rocks. that being said, i still love these tires and they perform excellent and are very predictable in the snow and rain. i have not had them in much ice so that will have to wait till later to tell you about that. they dont do so hot in the mud as they tend to gum up like all AT tires do in mud, but they are by far not the worst tire ive had in the mud. on dirt and gravel roads they are great and are again predictable and provide outstanding traction considering the surface. and as far as dry pavement goes, a wonderful tire and a very confidence inspiring tire, and good road manors and wear evenly
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regardless of what ever the weight distribution is on the car, its still throws it around when the car moves. When you accelerate, your head tilts back, same with the car... ie weight distribution. When you car is on a scale its sitting still, cool our trucks have perfect balance of weight, could make for some fun off roading :-D
But as Jon put it, a stiffer suspension set up will hold the weight to the front, off the wheels that put power to the ground. It makes no sense to me that when you accelerate the back end has the same force applied to the road as the front.
the great him
Elite Member
im not arguing that at all. what i am saying is that the rear of the truck has plunty of weight on it to keep the tires from spinning under normal driving.
if by your logic then would not all fwd cars spin out all the time taking off?
if by your logic then would not all fwd cars spin out all the time taking off?
rideexileex
Senior Member
IanB
New member
Weight distribution and weight transfer are not the same thing. Let's use your numbers of 5,000lbs, and 50/50 weight distribution for an example. When the truck is sitting still, there is 2500lbs on the front and rear axles, with stock springs when you take off the truck sags in the rear, transferring a huge amount of that weight towards the back of the truck, let's say 3500lbs onto the rear axle, very hard to spin the tires. With stiffer aftermarket suspension, you don't get much rear sag at all when taking off, so lets say you get 2800lbs weight on the rear axle, big difference. All other factors being the same (tires, road conditions, etc) it will be much easier to spin the tires with the stiffer suspension. But then these trucks aren't for drag racing, so who cares.
As for FWD cars, if you've ever been around FWD drag racing you'd know that you look to minimize weight transfer to avoid the front tires unloading and just spinning when you try to launch. Guys use much stiffer spings in the rear than you would ever want on the street, as one way of maximizing the traction available on the launch.
When I ditched OEM rear springs for OME 906's I found the same thing to an extent, but the characteristics of the diesel and the bigger/better tires made it so it was never an issue for me.
