New Magnuson TVS1320 Available for 3rd Gens

[phattyduck]

No freaking way I'd ever do that.

My non-supercharged 5VZ is noisy with 87... yeah, definitely 91 or better with a supercharger.

-Charlie

 

[gamefreakgc]

Thank you for the details.

I wonder how much low elevation versus high elevation operation changes the user experience with these blowers?

I'd like to invest in one of these TVS set ups, but I'll be completely honest, I got tired of packing around a laptop to tune stuff along time ago. I just don't have that kind of time or patience to tinker anymore. my brother and I even created a rule, no tuning or wrenching on play days. Shop only...lol. Some of the stupid stuff we used to do like adjusting needle clips on carburetors in the middle of nowhere, super heavy, toolboxes, and getting Duramax transmission tuning to be happy in the middle of the night with a laptop.

Part of the learning curve I guess..... or the insanity.....lol.

Elevation plays a big part. I live at sea level and so do the above mentioned performance companies. I am not sure if the TVS1320 runs at more acceptable levels at high elevation as the stock ECU fuel map is pretty rigid. What I mean by that is that in open loop, it defaults to pre-programmed values based on the flow measured by the MAF sensor and that's it. It can't sense boost as we don't have a MAP sensor so it just goes lean.

I can totally understand the tuning piece. I spent a long time getting my tune right and Toyotas are possibly the hardest manufacturers to tune out of all of them. If you are after simplicity and reliability I recommend waiting a little while and get a 2nd gen M62 used for cheap in the first half of next year when people start to flood the used market with them for the TVS1320. It'll be 100% bolt on for you with no tune needed. Encouraged, but not needed.

 

[Romeo1]

FWIW-My experiences with the gen 2 (black m62) over the years. Long post, but maybe good info for some on the fence.

I drive 53 miles each way to work on windy rural roads with lots of accel/decel cycles, and I drive hard. Once at work I drive around a mine site all day on dirt, sand and mud for hours at each day. 110* summers and radiator jammed with mud winters. They all towed a small dirt bike trailer with 1-3 bikes, spare parts and firewood all over the Sierra Nevadas and Rockies until I picked up a sprinter van about a year ago. So these rigs had a rough life!

Got a used 2nd gen off ebay. Didn't check anything on the supercharger, just bolted it on per the instructions.

97 4R, auto 4x4 on 255/85's. Had about 250k miles when I put the blower on. It had no major rebuilds before this- still factory engine, heads, trans etc. Just normal replace the bad alternator kinda stuff, most major work was a timing belt at ~225. Everything seemed healthy at that point though. With blower it ran great, had a slight audible ping in high gear light throttle rolling into a bit more throttle. Think cruising at 55 and giving it slightly more gas to keep speed on a slight incline. Any more gas than that and no ping. It had 4.10's, I put 4.30's in when I found an ARB for cheap. It liked the gears for sure, hit that narrow ping range even less. I added 7th injector setup, didn't adjust tuning at all. Made more power and no ping. Eventually ran a 2.1 pulley and still didn't mess with 7th programming. At about 350k it got smacked on the fwy. Motor and trans were still happy then. I had a A/F gauge on it and it stayed close enough to perfect I didn't bother tuning the 7th stuff.

Took the same blower and put it on a 97 taco, no 7th, back to stock pulley, and no A/F gauge this time. Similar running gear Auto w/4.30's and 255/85's. The Taco ran great, it felt as quick as the 4runner was with 7th and pulley. The taco was a $500 ~300K mile beater with a bad water pump and rod knock when I got it. I put a water pump on it and it ran for two and a half years as I described above to work and back each day. Rod knock the whole time, sounded like it could nuke itself any moment. Had the same light load low rpm ping. Finally took out a head gasket when the water pump pulley sheared off in a remote area and I overheated it trying to limp it back to the Maint shop.

Took the blower off and sold the taco to a buddy to build. I still haven't done a nose cone or any maint on it. Put it on my current 99 4R auto at about 225k, running great still at 265k. Am considering 7th injector and 2.1 pulley again or maybe dump some money into the new blower, pulley and 7th. If I keep the 2nd gen I'll go through the bearings etc too.

The blower gives these 3.4's enough power to counteract all the weight I've added to them. Full skids, roof rack, bumper, tire swing out, ARB fridge and tools ect inside. Current one is right around 6-6,200lbs when I roll across the scales at the mine.

I've put probably 250-300k miles on this blower, most of those on regular CA 87 unleaded gas I pump at the mine (work vehicle so I get free company fleet gas!). I really don't think these push the 3.4 motor "to the edge" or "it's a coin toss once you bolt it on" like some say. The Taco motor was terminal when I bought it, lasted over 2 years and STILL didn't succumb to a boost related failure. With pulley swaps yea you're getting into the danger zone without doing some fuel and timing solutions. As delivered I think a generally healthy 3.4 and auto is plenty stout to handle the slightly lean tune they run without mods.

I dunno with the new version, yea lower boost and bigger rotors. But at similar power level with the same injectors and ECU it should logic out to a similar additional thermal and physical strain on internals? It takes X amount of air, gas and Cyl pressure to make a certain HP level, after all.

Maybe I've just been really lucky, I dunno? If so I hope my luck continues!

Thank you for your detailed post! I appreciate it.

 

[Romeo1]

Elevation plays a big part. I live at sea level and so do the above mentioned performance companies. I am not sure if the TVS1320 runs at more acceptable levels at high elevation as the stock ECU fuel map is pretty rigid. What I mean by that is that in open loop, it defaults to pre-programmed values based on the flow measured by the MAF sensor and that's it. It can't sense boost as we don't have a MAP sensor so it just goes lean.

I can totally understand the tuning piece. I spent a long time getting my tune right and Toyotas are possibly the hardest manufacturers to tune out of all of them. If you are after simplicity and reliability I recommend waiting a little while and get a 2nd gen M62 used for cheap in the first half of next year when people start to flood the used market with them for the TVS1320. It'll be 100% bolt on for you with no tune needed. Encouraged, but not needed.

Think the m62 will cheapen up? Doesn't seem to have softened much yet pricing wise.

I don't know that I'll ever chase big power with the 5vz. I'd very likely run the stock pulley. I'm just trying to bring it a little closer to modern power without all without the drama. That was the reason that the TVS is/was so appealing to me, lower pressure and lower heat. It's unfortunate that they seem to have issues running lean though.

Starting to feel like maybe I just need to go the route of gears and leaving it at that.

These newer vehicles are just stupid fast. My 23' tundra just rips. I used to think my sienna was fast. The tundra is way faster than my sienna and my old tundra. But they are slow compared to all of these Teslas I see driving around. I was in the bay area last week. It's just silly watching those Tesla's squirt in and out of traffic. Good grief are they fast. An entirely different category of acceleration.

 

[NegroTundra]

I'll chime in on the elevation aspect of this convo. I live at 5,950' in the high desert of New Mexico. Have a 2nd gen black TRD blower thats been on for over 120k miles. Bolted it on and went. Stock pulley, but did go two step cooler plugs. Factory airbox, no fuel mods. I use premium but no pings and turns my 285's very nicely all the way through the power band. I think its low elevation where folks have to start managing fuel.

 

[gamefreakgc]

Think the m62 will cheapen up? Doesn't seem to have softened much yet pricing wise.

I don't know that I'll ever chase big power with the 5vz. I'd very likely run the stock pulley. I'm just trying to bring it a little closer to modern power without all without the drama. That was the reason that the TVS is/was so appealing to me, lower pressure and lower heat. It's unfortunate that they seem to have issues running lean though.

Starting to feel like maybe I just need to go the route of gears and leaving it at that.

These newer vehicles are just stupid fast. My 23' tundra just rips. I used to think my sienna was fast. The tundra is way faster than my sienna and my old tundra. But they are slow compared to all of these Teslas I see driving around. I was in the bay area last week. It's just silly watching those Tesla's squirt in and out of traffic. Good grief are they fast. An entirely different category of acceleration.

Yes performance used to be hard to get with modifications, aftermarket parts and a lot of repairs. Now they roll off the lot with 300, 400, heck even 900 HP for a select few. Easy to get 550 HP out of the previous generation Tundra with a supercharger. Now there's an electric hybrid one that will also feel quick due to the electric motor.

There has been production delays with the TVS1320 and it frequently runs out of stock. Once they get them to market in large numbers people will want those and not the MP62s. That's what is keeping the price up. It'll come down, just know they need a little R&R to run a long time.

The heat isn't really a big issue unless you run a smaller pulley. Even with a small pulley it's fine as it only makes heat under boost. Normal driving it's as cool as the rest of the intake.

 

[_Ace_]

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5VZ Supercharger Support Package.

 

[Lefty JD]

Did he say he ran 87 octane on the supercharged engine!?

I sure do. The fleet gas at the work is 87 and the price is right $0.00/gallon. When I fill at a gas station I put 91 in it. But that is pretty rare-maybe every 10th tank or so. I have a truck allowance and free gas so it makes the low octane "worth it" to run. 4runner is 90% work driving- the commute and around the mine site.

Def not the preferred octane but just paying a little attention and avoiding the light throttle on light load ping has been no problem. I probably miss it sometimes as I always have the stereo on and avoid it "by habit". Ran the 87 gas in the Tacoma and now the 99 4runner I mentioned in original post.

Certainly I don't recommend running 87 and no fuel/tuning mods....but the huge amount of "YOU'LL BLOW IT UP INSTANTLY AND KICK PUPPIES" posts are misleading for those considering putting a blower on. Due to my job setup I'm kinda an extreme example of doing all the no-no's and it being fine.

I'm in Sacramento area, the mine is at ~350' of elevation.

 

[Speedy]

With the 5VZFE I don't think it's as much as a blow up instantly thing as it is damage occurs over time and eventually there's a problem. Cracked heads seem to be the most common and detonation will leave little pot marks on piston tops. Heat and detonation crack the heads over time I'm betting.

When these things do see detonation they yank all the timing out, so that likely gives some wriggle room to not instantly destroy a piston or rod. My water/meth pump failed without my knowing. I went WOT and my gauge showed like 3deg of timing when it occurred. I could feel something wasn't right and got out of it immediately. Definitely not happy at 10psi and 3deg....boost and low timing heats things up quickly.

I'm OCD so things have to be right on mine.

 

[jross20]

Its back-end pricing with consideration to the general supply and demand. Both research and development and generally operating a machine shop costs a lot of money, and they have to recoup it somehow in a limited market. Not uncommon at all - even big fish like DuPont actively do this with their products even though they're rolling in it.

Yeah I can see that, fair enough. I guess it just also stinks that the additional power isn't that much. Isn't it only like 20-30hp?

Or am I totally wrong? Haha

 

[Speedy]

Supercharger adds A LOT more than 30hp.

 

[Romeo1]

I sure do. The fleet gas at the work is 87 and the price is right $0.00/gallon. When I fill at a gas station I put 91 in it. But that is pretty rare-maybe every 10th tank or so. I have a truck allowance and free gas so it makes the low octane "worth it" to run. 4runner is 90% work driving- the commute and around the mine site.

Def not the preferred octane but just paying a little attention and avoiding the light throttle on light load ping has been no problem. I probably miss it sometimes as I always have the stereo on and avoid it "by habit". Ran the 87 gas in the Tacoma and now the 99 4runner I mentioned in original post.

Certainly I don't recommend running 87 and no fuel/tuning mods....but the huge amount of "YOU'LL BLOW IT UP INSTANTLY AND KICK PUPPIES" posts are misleading for those considering putting a blower on. Due to my job setup I'm kinda an extreme example of doing all the no-no's and it being fine.

I'm in Sacramento area, the mine is at ~350' of elevation.

I'm not surprised by your 87 octane experience.

It's the same problem that's happened clear back into the 90's around here. Most of the "premium" fuel is junk and old. Especially around here where 85 octane number is a thing. Hardly anyone buys 91. I imagine in places like SoCal due to the number of exotic and high performance cars around you can actually buy good premium fuel in a lot of places. But here in the intermountain west it's almost a fools errand.

The snowmobiles that we used to run were very very sensitive to octane. We would find out pretty quick who sold actual 91 and who didn't. It seemed like the only 91 that actually worked was the ethanol free. Any of the premium that had ethanol was marginally better than all of the other octane levels for the most part.

In the end, we basically all gave up. Those that wanted to deal with the hassle of high compression engines and race fuel dealt with it. Everybody else went back to stock compression ratios. Then turbos and good knock sensing happened and now it's a longer a real issue.

There really isn't any simple way to do on-site fuel octane number testing without spending thousands of dollars. We used to buy 110 Sunoco Racing fuel. We've tried blending avgas, we've tried it all. The only way to get good 91 pump fuel was to be very selective about where you bought it from and seek out ethanol free.

Leaded or aviation fuel isn't even a consideration for streetcars due to how they are set up with emissions equipment.

I remember about 15-20 years ago. An engine builder actually spent the money to send a bunch of fuel samples off to a lab. Come to find out in some of the cases the premium fuel had a lower octane number than the 87. Kinda sucks, but it's what it is.

Thank you for posting your experience. That is very encouraging for me to know that 87 can work on some situations. I just know that a lot of the places I go premium doesn't even exist.

 

[Speedy]

Selling different octane than stated on the pump violates federal and state laws. Random testing is performed and if a stations fails they get fined and shut down for what could be weeks.

 

[96RedRunner]

Selling different octane than stated on the pump violates federal and state laws.

Law nothing more than a warm fuzzy feeling for consumer now.
Station one step above in chain to consumer has no control of octane. It's been argued up the money tree
Fed State Refiner taxes and profit carries lotta swag in the application.

 

[Speedy]

You can find articles where many stations have been shut down for wrong octane in the tanks when the random inspector showed up. Not saying it doesn't happen, just saying the penalty is steep if caught. Each state is different in terms of regulation, testing, etc. Probably not a huge deal for a 4Runner but in other cars I fool with it's very important.

 

[Ed_C]

Pretty thorough installation video

5vz 3.4L Toyota Magnuson Supercharger Installation - YouTube

 

[gamefreakgc]

I sure do. The fleet gas at the work is 87 and the price is right $0.00/gallon. When I fill at a gas station I put 91 in it. But that is pretty rare-maybe every 10th tank or so. I have a truck allowance and free gas so it makes the low octane "worth it" to run. 4runner is 90% work driving- the commute and around the mine site.

Def not the preferred octane but just paying a little attention and avoiding the light throttle on light load ping has been no problem. I probably miss it sometimes as I always have the stereo on and avoid it "by habit". Ran the 87 gas in the Tacoma and now the 99 4runner I mentioned in original post.

Certainly I don't recommend running 87 and no fuel/tuning mods....but the huge amount of "YOU'LL BLOW IT UP INSTANTLY AND KICK PUPPIES" posts are misleading for those considering putting a blower on. Due to my job setup I'm kinda an extreme example of doing all the no-no's and it being fine.

I'm in Sacramento area, the mine is at ~350' of elevation.

Yeah these engines are stout and Toyota knew it. How many other vehicles sell a dealer installed forced induction kit and don't do a thing with fueling? No injectors, no tune, no extra fuel pressure, nothing and it can run for 100,000's of miles that way.

I suspect running 87 will catch up with you some day if it is an auto but if a manual yes you can run it for a very long time. I've only seen at the worst cracked exhaust valves from running a supercharged engine really hard which is far from a death sentence. The people that say 'you'll blow up your engine' come from other manufacturers and platforms that this does ring true, especially at 7 PSI. These engines are the rare exception.

Holler if you see me on the road. Probably crossed paths more than once.