New NY gun law

[JohnnyT]

I guess you weren't in New Orleans after Katrina when the NOLA police went door to door confiscating guns...

I also have a little experience with pepper spray indoors. First, by the time you get to it there may already be 15 bullets coming in your direction. Bear spray doesn't stop that. What it will do, is make the environment toxic for everyone including yourself... But possibly not the crazed drugged out psycho who still has a gun. There are definitely circumstances when less than lethal, and indeed lethal, force doesn't stop someone right away. You can do amazing things to people and they will keep coming. The idea is to defend yourself with more force than your attacker.

I'd say NO after Katrina might have been a "special" situation, wouldn't you? Come on.

How do you know you have more force than your crazed drugged attacker that's coming to get you tomorrow? How do you know when you're gun is big and capable enough? Do you carry your gun on your person when you're home? Do you perhaps doze off watching football or go take a crap without your trusty firearm?

I think you need a vacation. Better yet, I need one.

 

[Kraeken]

I'd say NO after Katrina might have been a "special" situation, wouldn't you? Come on.

How do you know you have more force than your crazed drugged attacker that's coming to get you tomorrow? How do you know when you're gun is big and capable enough? Do you carry your gun on your person when you're home? Do you perhaps doze off watching football or go take a crap without your trusty firearm?

I think you need a vacation. Better yet, I need one.

Was Katrina a "special" situation? We just got hammered with a worse storm. And there was looting here in NYC. And we have a Mayor here who is rabidly anti-gun but a hell of a lot smarter than Nagin. A different mayor and there may have been confiscation here too. I'd say its definitely NOT a special situation. When the government knows you have a gun they know they can come and take it from you. And here, as was the case in New Orleans, people could be defenseless against the element which roams the streets preying on them. My wife and I never really thought about getting guns until I came back from New Orleans. And during both Irene and Sandy, when the lights went out my M&P was on the coffee table.

The way you know you have more force than your attacker is to have the choice to own whatever weapon you like. I know A LOT of people with semi-automatic rifles. A friend of mine lives in rural Ohio. In the country but gang activity trickles out to him. He has a million dollar machine shop on 83 acres of farmland. If he has a problem, no one is coming to help him in time. He is never more than ten steps from a firearm while in his house and shop. For many, many people in the US, this is a way of life.

We're having a serious but friendly conversation, but there is a tone of incredulousness (is that a word?) in your post. Just because you may have never been a victim of a violent crime or a home invasion, and probably will never be, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It happens a lot. Push in robberies used to be practically a sport on Long Island.

No one needs to live their life in paranoia, and no one should live in fear. But one needs to realize that there are bad people in this world, and the ability to choose how you defend yourself isn't something that should be stripped from you by your government. We take reasonable precautions to protect ourselves against all kinds of threats, from car accidents to fires to medical emergencies and anything else you can think of. Those precautions need to be greater than the threat to be effective- (without arguing semantics) the extinguisher needs to be sufficient to put out the fire. The PFD has to provide enough lift to keep you afloat. The bandage needs to be enough to stop the bleeding. The seatbelt and airbags must be sufficient to protect you from most accidents. The Epipen is enough to counter the bee sting. Why cant we take precautions to reasonably protect ourselves from violent crime as well?

After the last three months, I definitely need a vacation. Thankfully it starts Tuesday!

 

[Thai]

Personally, I hate guns and anything to do with them. A good can of bear spray under the kitchen sink and in my truck that can hit a target from 30ft away along with a Louisville Slugger is reasonable and good enough for me.

Yeah, this will surely stop someone high on drugs or bath salts....

 

[JohnnyT]

Yeah, this will surely stop someone high on drugs or bath salts....

It might and it might not. Your gun may not either.

My view may change if ever I encountered anything so threatening. To date I have not.

I believe in a solid home alarm and service (check), an attentive and responsive police force (check), an extremely well lit property (check), trustworthy neighbors who look out for each other (check), and some deterrents that I mentioned (check).

 

[Thai]

But me putting 147 gr Winchester PDX1 rounds into a crazed intruder will likely be far more effective than a baseball bat.

I have all of what you already have plus my hollow points. Unfortunately, all of what you have can easily be bypass. I live in a fairly up-scale neighborhood (homes from 300k+ to over 1.5 mil) and average salary in a household in my city is around or just over $100k. YET, there have been reports of plenty break-ins, a homicide near my subdivision, and even a local Bank of America robbery!!

Unfortunately, break-ins occur in all types of neighborhoods, from the rural areas to the custom homes high-end properties. Why wait for something terrible to happen before taking actions?? No, it is not about being paranoid...it is about being prepared to protect you and your family properly.

I understanding waiting to see what the 2014 4runner would look like before buying a 2013 model...but do you REALLY want to wait for an evil intruder to overcome your "defenses" (aka neighborhood watch & baseball bat) to realize the need for a handgun to defend your family?? Sorry, i don't like to wait for that to happen before i act.

 

[JohnnyT]

But me putting 147 gr Winchester PDX1 rounds into a crazed intruder will likely be far more effective than a baseball bat.

I have all of what you already have plus my hollow points. Unfortunately, all of what you have can easily be bypass fairly easily. I live in a fairly up-scale neighborhood (homes from 300k+ to over 1.5 mil) and average salary in a household in my city is around or just over $100k. YET, there have been reports of plenty break-ins, a homicide near my subdivision, and even a local Bank of America robbery!!

Unfortunately, break-ins occur in all types of neighborhoods, from the rural areas to the custom homes high-end properties. Why wait for something terrible to happen before taking actions?? No, it is not about being paranoid...it is about being prepared to protect you and your family properly.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. We come from 2 very different parts of this country. I choose to have faith in the community I live in, friends, family, and those that are here to serve and protect so that I don't feel the need for such lethal deterrents.

 

[Thai]

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. We come from 2 very different parts of this country. I choose to have faith in the community I live in, friends, family, and those that are here to serve and protect so that I don't feel the need for such lethal deterrents.

It is kinda like Luke Skywalker closing his eyes and relying on The Force to guide him and his X-Fighter!!

Just kidding. I understand your position. Like I said many times, I dearly hope that I never have to use my firearm to defend myself or my family in this lifetime.

 

[beerstash]

JohnnyT- lets look an indepth look at other developed countries that has done this and see where they are after passing similar legislation on gun bans. Let me introduce Exhibits Britian and Australia- both have more violent crimes committed with and without firearms. Australia doesn't even have a legal definition of home invasion since it never occurred when law abiding citizens were able to defend themselves. But you're right, bear spray and a Louisville slugger is a safer and more humane way of dealing things but since you live in NJ, I'm sure the pointers given by the Mafia's up there were such great role models and how to properly swing a bat to kill or maim an attacker.

 

[Kraeken]

A good alarm and well lit property go a long way in preventing many crimes. Its nice to have neighbors who look out for you and an attentive police force, but what are neighbors going to do? What if the police are tied up somewhere else? That's relying on factors out of your control. Belief and faith never got anything done.

A big thing that happens in NYC is someone will call 911 and report an armed robbery or officer needs assistance or something similar, and all the cops will go racing to that call. Meanwhile on the other end of the precinct, the real crime is being committed, and there is a delay in police getting back to that location. Police are nice, but you can't rely on them, no matter how good they are.

 

[beerstash]

I don't expect the police to do what I can do, nor the government. I live in a well lit neighborhood and good neighbors but what are they going to do??? Be a good witness while we're getting terrorized, robbed and possibly killed? Call 911 and wait for how long it takes to them to get there? I know they aren't going to come to my rescue in time. Not faster than I can grab my weapon and take care of business.

We can look at two different but similar areas in Georgia. Kennesaw has on the books since the 1980's that if you reside in their city limits, you must own a firearm. Whether or not one does is not the point, no one is checking to make sure, but the FACT that there hasn't been ONE home invasion is something else. What criminal is going to take the chance??? Now Gwinnett County- no such law within the County or any of its cities and they have the highest rate of home invasions for the ENTIRE state. Just putting FACTS out there.

 

[JohnnyT]

A good alarm and well lit property go a long way in preventing many crimes. Its nice to have neighbors who look out for you and an attentive police force, but what are neighbors going to do? What if the police are tied up somewhere else? That's relying on factors out of your control. Belief and faith never got anything done.

A big thing that happens in NYC is someone will call 911 and report an armed robbery or officer needs assistance or something similar, and all the cops will go racing to that call. Meanwhile on the other end of the precinct, the real crime is being committed, and there is a delay in police getting back to that location. Police are nice, but you can't rely on them, no matter how good they are.

If I lived in NYC perhaps I'd think differently but I don't. I only work there unfortunately.

A good alarm, well lit property, a responsive police force (my town is a grand total of 1 sq mile in size), my bear spray, and my Louisville Slugger will be fine.

I'll say this too...... when you look at a house, you can tell when people are buttoned-up and have their shit together, and when they don't. The one's that don't get victimized most of the time. We have homes in our area that consistently leave keys in cars at all times and windows wide open with nobody home in the summer. Some are friends. Went to a Xmas party this year and the homeowner had bought a new car. Told him it looked pretty nice and he told me to "go ahead.... take it out for a spin..... its a great car..... keys are in the ignition".

After reading many others posts in this and other threads on this forum over the past week or so, I initially thought all the pro-gun people were complete morons. Now, I can honestly begin to understand other viewpoints and circumstances that I wasn't able to before. I'm still nowhere near being pro-gun at this point though.

 

[phillyd2]

Kraeken hit the nail on its head. A nut with a AK / AR can kill 20, 30 maybe 100 innocents. Without doubt horrible. But only a State can kill millions. History has proved this without fail over and over again. Some seem to feel that Americans hold some sort of special DNA which makes us different from China, Russia, Germany, Rome, Cambodia, etc. Sorry to break the bad news - we are no better or worse or even different. Thank God that unlike many alive today our Founders knew and understood history and put the 2A in writing so such evil has a harder time be waged here.

Question is one of power, not crime or hunting. Always has been. Some are fine with the State having the ultimate power. I, like the Founders rather power be defused among us all.

Besides, anybody not think them Canadians are not just waiting for us to be disarmed before they invade and force us all to listen to Celine Dion on a 24 hour loop? :canada:

 

[theizzardking]

I'm still nowhere near being pro-gun at this point though.

Fair enough, i'm all for people doing what they feel is best for them as long as it doesn't effect the rights and liberties of others, if you don't feel the need for a gun then don't purchase one, but at the same time don't try to tell other people what they need to do to feel safe or protect themselves, i personally live in an unincorporated area with no police force, we have a single county sheriff who patrols through every couple of days, but help is literally 20 minutes away even if they are on top of things, our area gets robbed commonly as well despite being out in the country due to criminals knowing there is a less police presence out here, don't forget America is a very big country and the cities and towns are only a very very small part of it, there are alot of places that don't have police forces as it's to sparse and the money just isn't there even if they could patrol all of it..... all of my neighbors are armed democrat or republican as we understand the need for it among just using our ar-15's to keep the coyotes from getting the goats and pigs......

i can never get behind one group of people trying to take away freedoms from another group of people or tell them how they should think,feel, and be, liberty is inherent and individual, the majority should never be allowed to enslave the minority by the rule of law and the minority should never be able to enslave the majority by rule of law, that is why the constitution is the way that it is , i have no right to tell you , you must own a gun because we have the 2nd amendment, just as you have no right to try and take the second amendment and my right to protect myself away from me, i really just don't get it, we all know criminals are going to break the law regardless, much like people here are saying they don't care if the government bans guns or not, they are keeping them, those are all good honest just people but are still willing to break the law, the law is only as good as those who are willing to follow it regardless of reasons, so passing laws like this only enslave people who are willing to follow the law no matter the directive, until you end up in tyranny and absolute power , more and more and more and more laws all add up to a totalitarian society, at some point laws aren't going to save anyone and only cripple,

That's why people are saying enforce what we have and make the checks better, which is all reasonable stuff, as that's not taking anything away from anyone and it stops there, these current gun talks are ludicrous and is a very very down hill slope, i don't think anyone is saying we should bring machine guns back into mass circulation, or that people should have "snukes"
but trying to ban "semi-auto" or anything that is black is retarded....
for christ sake watch this
Top Gun - Fastest Cowboy Action Shooter - YouTube

using guns from the early 1900's he lays down more firepower in an shorter amount of time than most could with an ar-15, do people really think banning "semi-auto's" will change anything?

 

[beerstash]

Celine Dion or Justin Bieber. Both are whack jobs! At least Celine is confined for the most part to the entertainer retirement home- Vegas.

 

[calikev]

If I lived in NYC perhaps I'd think differently but I don't. I only work there unfortunately.

A good alarm, well lit property, a responsive police force (my town is a grand total of 1 sq mile in size), my bear spray, and my Louisville Slugger will be fine.

I'll say this too...... when you look at a house, you can tell when people are buttoned-up and have their shit together, and when they don't. The one's that don't get victimized most of the time. We have homes in our area that consistently leave keys in cars at all times and windows wide open with nobody home in the summer. Some are friends. Went to a Xmas party this year and the homeowner had bought a new car. Told him it looked pretty nice and he told me to "go ahead.... take it out for a spin..... its a great car..... keys are in the ignition".

After reading many others posts in this and other threads on this forum over the past week or so, I initially thought all the pro-gun people were complete morons. Now, I can honestly begin to understand other viewpoints and circumstances that I wasn't able to before. I'm still nowhere near being pro-gun at this point though.

I hate to say it but your neighborhood sounds like the best place to rob and pillage. Keys in the cars, doors open and unlocked, easily spotted weak or no protection homes, residents that have a false sense of security.

I own my guns for the "just in case" moment, just as I had tons of water, canned food, etc when I lived in Florida. It simply comes down to being prepared to be in control or allowing yourself to be controlled. I grew up shooting, believe in gun safety and can and will use my weapon if necessary without any hesitation.

I promised myself before having my family that I would NEVER be curled up in my closet with my eyes closed saying..."please, please, please don't let them open this door" Now that I have a family, if you open any of my doors unwelcomed and threatening my family the "flash" will be your last vision.

I have a neighbor whose disaster plan and security model involves me and coming to my home and/or calling me because he knows I'm prepared. I've advised him many times that he needs to prepare himself because in the event of a true disaster I won't have to think very hard when considering defending and protecting mine or mine, his and the whole neighborhood.

I suggest you look at it as insurance. Get your family some insurance for the just in case moments, go to the range and learn this weapon. You may find yourself in need of it one day and if not then at least you've conquered a fear that you clearly have and empowered yourself.

 

[Kurtis]

And spoons made Opera fat...

 

[mikebontoft]

So I read through this bill again yesterday... did anyone else notice the lack of an exemption for law enforcement?

Also a guy here went shopping at JCPenney with an AR slung around his back. No one freaked out, no one called the police... but the news was trying to make a big deal out of it.

 

[JohnnyT]

I hate to say it but your neighborhood sounds like the best place to rob and pillage. Keys in the cars, doors open and unlocked, easily spotted weak or no protection homes, residents that have a false sense of security.

I own my guns for the "just in case" moment, just as I had tons of water, canned food, etc when I lived in Florida. It simply comes down to being prepared to be in control or allowing yourself to be controlled. I grew up shooting, believe in gun safety and can and will use my weapon if necessary without any hesitation.

I promised myself before having my family that I would NEVER be curled up in my closet with my eyes closed saying..."please, please, please don't let them open this door" Now that I have a family, if you open any of my doors unwelcomed and threatening my family the "flash" will be your last vision.

I have a neighbor whose disaster plan and security model involves me and coming to my home and/or calling me because he knows I'm prepared. I've advised him many times that he needs to prepare himself because in the event of a true disaster I won't have to think very hard when considering defending and protecting mine or mine, his and the whole neighborhood.

I suggest you look at it as insurance. Get your family some insurance for the just in case moments, go to the range and learn this weapon. You may find yourself in need of it one day and if not then at least you've conquered a fear that you clearly have and empowered yourself.

Hysterical!

Just spoke to the wife about guns and all the discussion going on in the media, etc. and she wholeheartedly wants one.

She's Sicilian. Figures.

What do you suggest as a solid reliable quality handgun?

 

[jam46283]

http://m.theatlantic.com/internatio...-virtually-eliminated-shooting-deaths/260189/

Just some fun facts

"America's gun control laws are the loosest in the developed world and its rate of gun-related homicide is the highest. Of the world's 23 "rich" countries, the U.S. gun-related murder rate is almost 20 times that of the other 22. With almost one privately owned firearm per person, America's ownership rate is the highest in the world; tribal-conflict-torn Yemen is ranked second, with a rate about half of America's. "

 

[Kurtis]

A Land Without Guns: How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths - Atlantic Mobile

Just some fun facts

"America's gun control laws are the loosest in the developed world and its rate of gun-related homicide is the highest. Of the world's 23 "rich" countries, the U.S. gun-related murder rate is almost 20 times that of the other 22. With almost one privately owned firearm per person, America's ownership rate is the highest in the world; tribal-conflict-torn Yemen is ranked second, with a rate about half of America's. "

Ever person in Switzerland is issued a gun and taught how to use it. Switzerland has one of the lowest violent crime rates in the world. Oh, and how about some fun facts that are not media based. Thanks.