New Yorkers... Give up your guns.

[bofa]

When you live west of the Mississippi, do they remove your sense of humor? Why so serious? Meant to be funny. Ya know.....ha ha..... Guess not.

Okay, if you say so... but it sounds like you are the type of person that likes to run their mouth so long as you know the other person doesn't have the other hand.

I'm speechless. And completely done here. Thanks. Happy New Year!!

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it should be required, just encouraged and maybe discounted for ccw permit holders.

To comment on your counterpoints though... If you ever have the need to fire your gun in public or anywhere near anyone you probably should have given yourself some training on what to do. At a minimum have some muscle memory of putting the target in the sights while under stress and trigger work. Criminals aren't the ccw holders so odds are they will not have any special training.

While we agree in principle on the training, do you think it's right to force it upon others? Some people are completely responsible and competent without the gooberment hand-holding them.

Respectfully, those aren't counterpoints they are straw man arguments meant to minimalize his advocacy.

He's advocating comprehensive recurring training and requirements for carrying a deadly weapon. Responding that it won't deter criminals has nothing to do with the former.

Right and you are requiring it for the people that already went through the trouble of getting a national background check, taking a class, and forking over a couple hundred dollars. Tell me.. how many of these people have shot up schools and movie theaters? How many of them are involved in shooting crimes? You are solving for the problem with the wrong population.

again, its a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

^ This

The military has had this problem for years with gang members.

Exactly... gangs and cartels have taken advantage of this knowledge and used it against their enemies and the US.

 

[ndcent]

In my opinion it's not about "solving any problem" or any other red herring you want to toss out, it's about promoting responsibility.

I regularly have to renew drivers license to operate a deadly weapon, the sentiment is no different.

I prefer a qualified educated and responsible armed society and find advocating for the opposite and calling it "freedom" is ill-informed at best.

 

[bofa]

In my opinion it's not about "solving any problem" or any other red herring you want to toss out, it's about promoting responsibility.

I regularly have to renew drivers license to operate a deadly weapon, the sentiment is no different.

I prefer a qualified educated and responsible armed society and find advocating for the opposite and calling it "freedom" is ill-informed at best.

Sure it is. People want to feel better about those that carry and that's exactly what this is all about.

To renew your license in most cases you simply have to have a pulse and be capable of barely reading... and not in English. So I don't see how that compares. Getting a driver's license is nowhere near as difficult or expensive as getting a CWP either. Plus I thought you and others already crucified the gun license vs driving license argument earlier.

 

[nevada]

In my opinion it's not about "solving any problem" or any other red herring you want to toss out, it's about promoting responsibility.

I regularly have to renew drivers license to operate a deadly weapon, the sentiment is no different.

I prefer a qualified educated and responsible armed society and find advocating for the opposite and calling it "freedom" is ill-informed at best.

are you say people who conceal carry are irresponsible?
is that just a feeling you have, or do you have facts to back it up?

 

[ndcent]

Sure it is. People want to feel better about those that carry and that's exactly what this is all about.

To renew your license in most cases you simply have to have a pulse and be capable of barely reading... and not in English.

Are you sure you're not thinking of getting into the military?

 

[wallytoo]

I regularly have to renew drivers license to operate a deadly weapon, the sentiment is no different.

show me where you have a constitutional right to a driver's license, and then we can have the discussion. what is that, the 37th amendment? no?

that's one of the problems so many people have - the inability to distinguish between a right and a priviledge. i recognize that too many in our society treat driving as a right, so it's hard not to think of it that way. but it isn't.

if you want to test for competency re: the 2nd, what's to stop the gubmint from applying the same logic to the 1st, the 3rd, and the 4th? personally, i don't want to go down that road, and the 2nd is one of the rights that allows the citizens of this country to make sure we don't travel that road.

 

[SV_Dude]

While we agree in principle on the training, do you think it's right to force it upon others? Some people are completely responsible and competent without the gooberment hand-holding them.

Force the training on someone? Absolutely not. I said it should be strongly encouraged and maybe offer training at a discounted price for ccw holders. The gooberment can offer a tax break for trainers who train ccw holders. In exchange the trainers can give a discount to the ccw holders. That's just one option.

There are plenty of people who are competent enough to practice on their own. In a sense I agree with hikenbike about people who carry needing training. Whether it's formal training or practice on their own. There's there the competency and responsibility comes into play.

 

[bofa]

Are you sure you're not thinking of getting into the military?

Did I miss the snark in this one?

Force the training on someone? Absolutely not. I said it should be strongly encouraged and maybe offer training at a discounted price for ccw holders. The gooberment can offer a tax break for trainers who train ccw holders. In exchange the trainers can give a discount to the ccw holders. That's just one option.

There are plenty of people who are competent enough to practice on their own. In a sense I agree with hikenbike about people who carry needing training. Whether it's formal training or practice on their own. There's there the competency and responsibility comes into play.

Yeah but the difference is you are encouraging it and hikenbike wants it to be an ongoing requirement.

I like wallytoo's response to this issue... Do you need to pass a literacy certification to benefit from the 1st amendment? A legal certification to benefit from the 5th?

 

[SV_Dude]

Did I miss the snark in this one?



Yeah but the difference is you are encouraging it and hikenbike wants it to be an ongoing requirement.

I like wallytoo's response to this issue... Do you need to pass a literacy certification to benefit from the 1st amendment? A legal certification to benefit from the 5th?

And I want world peace but I know I'll never get it.

Wally said it very well. At some point there needs to be a stop to the intrusion of our rights. Judging by that map it shows that most states are getting more relaxed about gun laws. The interactive news article on the first or second page says that as well.

 

[SV_Dude]

Awesome, New York laws... Too bad they didn't have one against raids from teenagers in malls.

http://rt.com/usa/brooklyn-teens-knockout-mall-917/

 

[Jon T4R]

Figured this thread could use more pics..

 

[RunninInGA]

Not just New Yorkers, but I didn't feel like starting another thread.

WH proposes new Executive Orders to supplement current gun control efforts.

Obama administration proposes new executive actions on gun background checks | Fox News

The Obama administration on Friday proposed two new executive actions to make it easier for states to provide mental health information to the national background check system, wading back into the gun control debate after a months-long hiatus.

Vice President Biden's office announced the proposals Friday afternoon. Both pertain to the ability of states to provide information about the mentally ill and those seeking mental health treatment to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System.

One proposal would formally give permission to states to submit "the limited information necessary to help keep guns out of potentially dangerous hands," without having to worry about the privacy provisions in a law known as HIPAA.

"The proposed rule will not change the fact that seeking help for mental health problems or getting treatment does not make someone legally prohibited from having a firearm," the statement said. "Furthermore, nothing in the proposed rule would require reporting on general mental health visits or other routine mental health care, or would exempt providers solely performing these treatment services from existing privacy rules."

The other proposal would clarify that those who are involuntarily committed to a mental institution -- both inpatient and outpatient -- count under the law as "committed to a mental institution." According to the administration, this change will help clarify for states what information to provide to the background check system, as well as who is barred from having guns.

The statement from Biden's office claimed these changes would help ensure that "better and more reliable information" makes its way into the system.

Over the past year, the administration has been trying to get states to offer up more data for that system, after failing to pass legislation to expand the background check infrastructure.

The administration made a robust effort to pass gun control legislation after the 2012 mass shooting in Newtown, Conn., but the bills, which included new bans on assault weapons and high-capacity magazines, failed to gain enough support in Congress.

In the Friday statement, President Obama and Biden renewed their call for Congress to pass "common-sense gun safety legislation" -- including by expanding the background check system and making gun trafficking a federal crime.

 

[LINY4Runner]

Not just New Yorkers, but I didn't feel like starting another thread.

WH proposes new Executive Orders to supplement current gun control efforts.

Obama administration proposes new executive actions on gun background checks | Fox News

Honestly I can't really say much about this. It's finally a step in the right direction as long as it's executed well. We've been saying for years "guns don't kill people, people kill people" and "we don't have a gun problem, we have a people problem" and as of late we've been suggesting better mental health procedures to keep people like Adam Lanza's hands off firearms.
I don't support "universal" background checks and registration and all that other gabage the president has been throwing around...but giving NICS information about people who are unstable and/or a danger to themselves and others is one thing they came up with that actually might prevent another derp from shooting up a school.

 

[LINY4Runner]

In other news a NY Judge just ruled the 7-round limit "arbitrary" and scrapped it...which is good news...
He also upheld most of the worst parts about the SAFE Act (registration of "assault" weapons)...which is bad news...

We're still fighting though...got until April 15th, Registration Day


ALSO, for those of you in NY, keep in mind that 1/15 is when the restriction on online ammo sales goes into effect. After 1/15/14 any ammo ordered online must be shipped to an FFL who will perform an NICS-style (a NY-specific, primitive, barely functioning, half-assed attempt at the NICS) background check. :rockthrow:

 

[JBecker]

Not just New Yorkers, but I didn't feel like starting another thread.

WH proposes new Executive Orders to supplement current gun control efforts.

Obama administration proposes new executive actions on gun background checks | Fox News

While that may sound good in theory, how it will be implemented has yet to be seen. Could be a slippery slope, could be a step in the right direction.

 

[SV_Dude]

The assault weapon deal irritates me. In my mind an assault weapon is nothing more than a military or law enforcement weapon that is full auto or burst. An AR-15 is NOT an assault weapon. AR is not Assault Rifle but many in the ol' gov think that if it's black and uses a 30 round magazine, it's an assault rifle using a high cap magazine.

Too bad NY is being forced to register their ar's and other guns that fall into their bs definition.

I can see the mental health issue but I don't trust the gov with the ability to add it to the nics check. Once they get that started it will open a door way for them to add more to it. Adam Lanza was a nut case without a doubt. But from what I understand, his mom wasn't. So how would this law prevent Adam Lanza from doing what he did? Would you not be able to buy a gun because your child has mental issues?

 

[WFO_Racer]

All my AR type rifles are 80/20 builds. Custom built for my sons, wife & myself.

Bespoke to each shooters trigger pull, stock & barrel preference.

I find no use in buying over the counter and letting Barry know what sits in my safe.

 

[RunninInGA]

All my AR type rifles are 80/20 builds. Custom built for my sons, wife & myself.

Bespoke to each shooters trigger pull, stock & barrel preference.

I find no use in buying over the counter and letting Barry know what sits in my safe.

I don't know man - I'm thinking they may already know you've got something - with all that NSA computing power (this isn't the first time you've posted about your secret 80/20 builds and I'm NOT trying to call you out; I'm as guilty as the rest).

There's approximately 31,550,000 seconds in a year - how many computations can their machines complete in a second? How many of those computers do they have?

I can assure you they're not trying to solve complex social or human rights issues behind the digital curtain - so how else are they occupying their time?

 

[WFO_Racer]

I don't know man - I'm thinking they may already know you've got something - with all that NSA computing power (this isn't the first time you've posted about your secret 80/20 builds and I'm NOT trying to call you out; I'm as guilty as the rest).

There's approximately 31,550,000 seconds in a year - how many computations can their machines complete in a second? How many of those computers do they have?

I can assure you they're not trying to solve complex social or human rights issues behind the digital curtain - so how else are they occupying their time?

Yup they sure could. They just need to find them. Hope they find the right neighbor too, since I post on others wifi accounts. Only a fool posts from a home account. Even my 12 year old knows that.

 

[bofa]

One small step forward in Chicago...

Judge rules Chicago ban on gun sales is unconstitutional