New tires caused me to hydroplane? 4runner totalled and going to court. Need advice

[TRUST8383]

Hey guys... well a crazy thing happened to me about a week ago. Hopefully, others will learn from my dilemma as well....

I "had" a 1999 limited edition 4wd 4runner. Excellent condition, it was my daily driver and well taken care of. I noticed that the front tires were showing a little bit of wear, but the rear tires were still good (about 70% treadlife left) . So I went to discount tire, and had the front two tires replaced.

Now, apparently, it's supposed to be common knowledge that if you only replace two tires, regardless of fwd or rwd, the new tires go in the rear. Which is weird, because i'm a big gear head, and I can't believe i've never heard of this until now. Well, apparently, if you put new tires only in the front, and your tires in the rear are used....the front tires will have more grip and this offset can cause the rear end to fishtail or kick out in wet conditions. This information, all coming from the manager at discount tire, AFTER my accident happened?? I'm thinking to myself, why didn't they make me aware of this when they were selling me the tires??

Anyways. Driving in very light rain, 95 south going about 60 mph, i felt the truck hydroplane ever so slightly, enough to scare me, so I move into the right lane and slow down to 40 mph. About 5 min. later, still at this slow speed and driving straight, the back end kicks out effortlessly, and the truck goes into a 180 spin across 3 lanes and hits a guard rail. Granted, at this slow speed it wasn't enough to be a huge impact, but my exhaust got caught on the guard rail and flipped the truck on it's side. No glass broke, the truck basically just fell over.

It didn't seem that bad to me or the cop at the scene? but progressive went ahead and totalled it. The cop was apologetic, and said "sorry, its basic procedure, i have to write you a careless driving ticket....just take it to court, and they should drop it"

So, i now have a court date, to try and get this ticket dropped. What does everyone think about the accident, how I should approach the judge, and also the situation about my tires....has anyone heard of this type of thing happening? I apologize for the long post, but I'm pretty bummed...and to top it off, i lost the truck over a stupid accident in my eyes . Thanks for the input.

 

[Kramer420]

Sry to hear about your truck man thats a real shame! but id go up to "discount tire" and bitch em out and yes you are right When ever you get new tires and chose to only buy 2 they should Always go over the drive wheels Regardless for Grip. and thats Bs that cop gave you that ticket...i mean your Truck flipped over and you tried to do the right thing and slowed down..and i wouldnt bring up in court about your tires because the judge could think you dont care about your truck...thats my 2 cents goodluck

 

[ssmathis]

Sorry to hear about your 4Runner but glad you are Ok. I can't help with the court thing but I do know that there was a n article in Road and Track I think last year from Michelin where they proved that it's better to have the new tires on the back for this same reason. If the new tires are on the front, you are more likely to spin whereas if they are on the back, you will be more likely to just understeer. I know this doesn't help and again, I'm glad you are OK.

Scott

 

[Bluto]

and also the situation about my tires....

No one was injured and no other vehicles involved? It may be hard to justify any legal action.


Ask Progressive if they would pursue the issue with Discount Tire.

It may be worth getting the 'at fault' accident off your driving record.

 

[Boaz]

THat careless driving ticket won't help you out much in court!

You should be in discount tires ASS over this. Hopefully they wont fight you on it. They could say that you asked them to replace the front tires, not rotate. If the store policy is to put ALL new tires on the rear reguardless of what the customer requests.... then you have them by the short and curlys. I would call discount tire, ask for a manager of some sort and have them explain what the exact policy is word for word. Then explain your situation, and tell them that you belive that your new tires on the front contributed to your wreck.

But can you PROVE that the bald tires on back caused your hydroplane? THats the bitch, proving what caused your accident. How do they know you didn't hydroplane on purpose? It doenst make sense but they will try to get out of it anyway they can Im sure....most lawyers will.

Gather what you can prove, eg witnesses, complaints against the paticular discount tire your tires were installed at etc...

In this situation , You can come out as the windshield or as the Bug.... you never know. I hope this helps. Good Luck bro


Jake

 

[Hank]

New tires (a set of 2) always goes on the rear axle. I normally buy my tires at Costco and regardless of my desire for them to put the 2 new tires on the front axle (my other car, a front wheel drive), they said that they are required to put them on the rear axle due to safety and liability issues. I'm surprised that discount tires don't follow the same guidelines or perhaps the tech who did the install forgot to rotate the tires. I'd recommend to have your insurance company pay for your damages and then subrogate against discount tires for the entire claim including your deductible amount. If your ins-co doesn't go after them, then you may have to do it yourself. Good luck

 

[dcampen]

You should be in discount tires ASS over this. Hopefully they wont fight you on it. They could say that you asked them to replace the front tires, not rotate. If the store policy is to put ALL new tires on the rear reguardless of what the customer requests.... then you have them by the short and curlys.

And to reference the other thread from the guy who wants to turn off the VSC saftey system - this is exactly why Toyota makes it difficult to do. The first time someone gets in an accident with the VSC system disabled they will sue Toyota for having provided the means to disable the safety system.

 

[TRUST8383]

Thanks guys for the feedback. I never really thought to actually sue discount tire. I 'm not sure how hard of a time I would have proving that it was the installation of only new tires in the front that caused the accident, but there is no doubt in my mind that this was the case. It was the craziest thing, because I was driving so slow, and I could understand if there was standing water, or a turn ...but it just kicked out with no warning....wasn't even raining hard. I guess I should just be thankful that i wasn't hurt and I didn't take anyone else out. I'm not sure how feasible it would be to sue with no injury involved?

My main concern now is getting this stupid careless driving ticket taken off. I don't mind paying a fee, but i don't want it on my record. I have no clue how going to court works, plea of not guilty or no contest?? i'm not sure what the process is or what to expect. Do they just line everybody up, and call you up... one by one. In my eyes I don't think i was careless, so How do I handle it in court?

 

[Sac State]

My advice, get a lawyer. You can't possibly navigate the legal system at this level by yourself.

 

[RXvedub]

Actualy, new tires go on the FRONT of the vehicle regardless of drive trane.

I worked at Americas Tire Co. for a long time and that was policy. Then I worked for LEXUS as a technician, and same thing.

The front tires control the direction of the vehicle, hence needing the grip.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

But can you PROVE that the bald tires on back caused your hydroplane?

He said the tires had 70% tread left,that's far from bald. I don't think there's a case here.

 

[RyanM]

I would consult with a lawyer about the ticket alone. Let go of the suing the tire store bit.

The laywer may cost you a few hundred bucks, but it will be worth it when you get out of the ticket. In my experience almost any time you bring a lawyer to traffic court on an iffy ticket, you will get out of it. At the very least it keeps you from screwing yourself because you don't know how the system works or what the judge wants to hear.

 

[TRUST8383]

crappy pic from my camera phone.

made out okay with the insurance company... I'm ordering a new G35 as a replacement. at least something good is coming out of it. I never meant for this thread to be a " i hate discount tire co. i want to sue them" type deal... I just wanted to see if anyone had ever gone to court over a ticket, and also the whole new tires in the front vs. rear issue. (as i am getting mixed opinions) The officer at the scene of the accident made it sound so simple..."Just take it to court, they'll throw it out" mmmm okay? just wondering what taking it to court entails and what to expect. thanks guys again for all the feedback.

 

[dcampen]

Can you go to Traffic School to keep the ticket off your point sheet? If you can take Traffic School then that is a certain way to get rid of the ticket - and probably cheaper than a lawyer.

 

[RickyCRX]

What the officer PROBABLY means is, "Take it to court; I won't show up, so there will be nobody representing the city/state/whatever jurisdiction, and since your prosecutor's witness won't be present, the case will be dropped."

Oh, and I'm the guy that wants to disable the VSC. Clearly it didn't help in this guy's situation.

I'd be willing to bet the vehicle got a little yaw going due to the wet conditions, it cut throttle, which then caused the issue to exacerbate itself and the next thing he knew was that he's going at a 45-degree angle into the retaining wall. I wouldn't be surprised if the electronic 'crutch' may have partially CAUSED this accident.

Ricky

crappy pic from my camera phone.

made out okay with the insurance company... I'm ordering a new G35 as a replacement. at least something good is coming out of it. I never meant for this thread to be a " i hate discount tire co. i want to sue them" type deal... I just wanted to see if anyone had ever gone to court over a ticket, and also the whole new tires in the front vs. rear issue. (as i am getting mixed opinions) The officer at the scene of the accident made it sound so simple..."Just take it to court, they'll throw it out" mmmm okay? just wondering what taking it to court entails and what to expect. thanks guys again for all the feedback.

 

[dcampen]

VSC. Clearly it didn't help in this guy's situation.

I'd be willing to bet the vehicle got a little yaw going due to the wet conditions, it cut throttle, which then caused the issue to exacerbate itself

I don't think that 1999 4runners have VSC.

 

[GYoter]

I don't think that 1999 4runners have VSC.

Yes, i believe it was added in 2000.

Well it sounds like you have a careless driving ticket, not an at fault accident. It might just be a moving violation and if you can go to traffic school it wont ever effect your insurance.

I agree with rickyCRX, if the cop said he knows it is a BS ticket, maybe you will get lucky and he just wont show up to court and it will be thrown out. Sorry to hear it man. Good luck.

 

[Bill42]

I'll speak to the ticket issue. Generally speaking, you are required to maintain control of your vehicle at all times. If your vehicle hydroplaned then you were considered to be driving at an unsafe speed for conditions. Subsequently, the officer cited you for careless driving - the cause of the collision.

Don't hire a lawyer for this. It's no different than going to traffic court. It is only an infraction. When the judge asks you for your side of the story simply explain what happened that evening. As to innocence or guilt I would point to any physical information; an article in a car magazine would be especially helpful and maybe a photo showing the new tires were placed on the front and the old ones on the back along with the Discount Tire receipt.

Tell the judge that in your opinion you were driving in a responsible manner and at a safe speed for conditions. Remind the judge that prior to the collision you had changed your lane and speed in response to the conditions.

Point out that the tires were placed on the wrong axles which created the hydroplaning and that the incorrectly placed tires (vehicle equipment) were the cause of the collision. Furthermore, no one else was involved.

Then smile...

 

[TRUST8383]

Actualy, new tires go on the FRONT of the vehicle regardless of drive trane.

I worked at Americas Tire Co. for a long time and that was policy. Then I worked for LEXUS as a technician, and same thing.

The front tires control the direction of the vehicle, hence needing the grip.

Actually, after doing some research I found these facts online in the LINKS BELOW. (Not to mention i learned them the hard way!) Bottom line, NEW TIRES GO IN REAR. Guys please take note for future reference, I'd hate for this to happen to anyone else....

NEWS ARTICLE

VIDEO INSIDE LINK BY MICHELIN TIRE CO.(look at the bottom of the page)

 

[sharp4runr]

Actually, after doing some research I found these facts online in the LINKS BELOW. (Not to mention i learned them the hard way!) Bottom line, NEW TIRES GO IN REAR. Guys please take note for future reference, I'd hate for this to happen to anyone else....

NEWS ARTICLE

VIDEO INSIDE LINK BY MICHELIN TIRE CO.(look at the bottom of the page)

OMG, good link at the michelin site. I knew that you were always suppose to replace the tires on the same axle, but didn't realize that the new ones should be mounted in the rear. The video realy "drives" that point home...