New to Toyota

[BlacknTan]

Hi all,

In the process of purchasing my first Toyota.

Coming off an 02 ZR2 Blazer. A factory lifted rig with a widened stance. Pretty capable vehicle off-road, but not without a few issues, most notably the Eaton G-80 "Quak Lock," that seems to engage when unneeded, and refuse to lock when necessary. The vehicle is geared right with ample power, but Chevrolet "quality" has got me down, especially as the rig ages!
Been wanting a Tacoma for a long time. But, we make trips to camp in the Adirondacks with two birddogs, who ride in the cab with us, so Access Cab at the very least, but it still leaves the luggage and whatever else I may be bringing exposed in the bed. A cap is an option, but it cuts visibility, and my neck doesn't turn backwards as well as it used to.
I saw a neighbor's 4Runner TRD Pro, and it seemed to solve all my problems. I can get the dogs and items I don't want in the rain undercover, visibility seems good, and the vehicle looks good and has the appearance of being quite capable off-road. The e-locker would be a blessing! Unfortunately, the price and lack of room to "deal" rubs me the wrong way. Would a Trail model be close to the Pro with a few modifications. and at the same time save me a few dollars?

So, any and all insight is appreciated ...

BTW, the dealer has very few answers to technical questions..

 

[bandaman]

Best bet is to do lots of reading here then check out each model carefully ... Study the options list and decide exactly what you need. The TRD Pro is basically a trail premium without a sunroof, an appearance package and a $1500 or so suspension package. Maybe a couple other things like puddle lights and heated mirrors on the TEP.. I can't remember all of the exact options. You can duplicate all of those Pro items on a Trail or pick and chose which ones you want or need. Pros can hard to find and most dealers won't negotiate off MSRP.

For example, in my area the only Pro with dealer options was $44,500 and not a dollar less. I bought a Trail Premium for just under $37,000 and added the Pro wheels. I love it.

Certain items were important to me that the TEP had, but the SR5 may be the best bet since it has all the same bones and you can customize to your liking. You can be in an SR5 for around $32-33K I believe.

 

[cjacob316]

The TRD pro is a trail premium minus the sunroof, but plus off road tires and an improved suspension. Often you can find a trail/trail premium for much less, and plenty enough to cover tires and even better suspension if you so desire. It's really up to you, some claim they have been able to get the price of the pro down, my local dealers wouldn't even discuss it. I liked the pro, but not enough to spend $6k more than the trail. Look at the SR5 too, if you plan to change the suspension, the things you get with the trail vs the SR5 may not be THAT important to you.

As for the Tacoma, I wanted one for as long as I could drive and finally purchased one last January. I traded it in for my 4runner in November. It's not half as comfortable on longer drives, in fact for me it was downright painful at times because I have bad knees. I ended up having to pack everything into my back seat because it rained all summer and I felt having a cap defeated the purpose of why I bought the truck. If you are considering the Tacoma I would suggest test driving as much as possible.

 

[1engineer]

Check the link in my signature on different 4Runer models, features and differences..

 

[2014 Warthog]

Yeah, the runner does it all! I came from a truck to a runner myself for the same reasons. My only gripe was like yours, it's a largely more expansive vehicle over a truck.

But best bang for the buck might be to consider an SR5, not even a trail. The SR5 is less expensive and still insanely capable offroad. The ATRAK system alone is actually almost as good as a locker (Someways better since it works for the front and rear axels! Some not as much, not quite as solidly reactive)

I ended up putting a locker in my SR5 aftermarket but more because of a want than any need I ran into and I've done some fairly gnarly things in my rig for a new 38k vehicle

 

[IdRatherBe]

I used truecar to get the deal started on my TEP and followed up with a bit of hardball while in the dealership. I politely and plainly said 10% of MSRP or thanks for the time. I saved >4k that I get to play with on mods to make this a TRDP killer... plus I got a sunroof that I use the hell out of.

Don't get me wrong, the TRDP looks reaaaaally nice, but the TEP is a fantastically practical buy with better approach and departure angles than the SR5 (if my memory serves me).

 

[Boyds4Runner]

I'll add an opinion

Having had a 95 Blazer and gone to a 2004 SR5 4Runner and now the 2015 TRD Pro, I would say I agree with your move from the Chevy. Mine had way less upgrades than your ZR2 but like you said it was still very capable off-road when and if the front diff would lock depending on how much vacuum was available from the engine.

I think you can't go wrong with any 4Runner for your described needs. All depends on whether you will want to or can do mods yourself. I can do small ones but suspension, locker etc.; I just never seem to steer any extra money in that direction after the original vehicle purchase. If I could I would have kept my 04 SR5 and modded it since it was already paid for...

So this time around I went and spent too much on a TRD Pro but I don't have to mod much other than adding full skids and eventually sliders. I already did the breather relocate and front window tinting, you know, small mods.

If you have the ability to save up or direct funds toward modifying a rig for better off-road function then definitely the SR5 would be a solid foundation to start. The Trail is what the TRD Pro is founded on so it does have the e-Locker and the 4x4 multi-mode selection, ATRAC etc. just not the TRD wheels and suspension but those could be bought later.

The Trail also has the KDSS option which some on this forum swear-by and others lament the added maintenance costs and difficulty in long-throw suspension mods

In any case I think you will be very happy with any 4Runner you pick and depending on your modding ability and desire either pay less for the vehicle now and build later or pay a bit more (Trail, Trail Premium) or a ton (TRD Pro, sigh) and mod less to none...

 

[wfo9]

I would not waste time on tying to negotiate on the pro. No added capability there for the money... Its mainly for looks.... You will get much more for your money with a trail or an sr5.

The trail also offers an optional suspension feature called KDSS. Think of it as a dynamic swaybar system that loosens up in crawl conditions to improve articulation but gets real tight on the road to limit body roll.

Like someone else mentioned, you don't really need the rear e-locker often on the 4runner. The ATRAC system emulates front and rear lockers to an extent. It's not as graceful or quite the same as being mechanically locked, but it can get you through most anything with a little throttle. It basically uses the ABS system to apply brake pressure on any wheel that starts to spin faster than the other on the same axle.

The trail model includes the rear e-locker, plus some other terrain and crawl control knobs (these have limited usefulness for a typical off-roader). The e-locker is the main difference between the trail and sr5 in terms of off-road capability.

Biggest overall con of the 4runner from somone coming from just about anything is the lack of perceived power . The motor is dated, but it can get the job done and seems to be bullet proof. It has some guts, but it requires you to really mash it to the floor. Also, the gearing is a little off, but you can typically live with it. Much of the power issue is related to how the throttle response is programmed. They have it very much setup for fuel economy (thus the reason you have to mash it to get the response you would normally expect).

And yes, the dealers are clowns and don't typically know anything about them. Several don't even know what some of the options are (like KDSS). Just search here or ask questions and don't expect much out of the dealer. Don't walk in the door until you know exactly what you want.

 

[Dexter Morgan]

Hi all,

In the process of purchasing my first Toyota.

Coming off an 02 ZR2 Blazer. A factory lifted rig with a widened stance. Pretty capable vehicle off-road, but not without a few issues, most notably the Eaton G-80 "Quak Lock," that seems to engage when unneeded, and refuse to lock when necessary. The vehicle is geared right with ample power, but Chevrolet "quality" has got me down, especially as the rig ages!
Been wanting a Tacoma for a long time. But, we make trips to camp in the Adirondacks with two birddogs, who ride in the cab with us, so Access Cab at the very least, but it still leaves the luggage and whatever else I may be bringing exposed in the bed. A cap is an option, but it cuts visibility, and my neck doesn't turn backwards as well as it used to.
I saw a neighbor's 4Runner TRD Pro, and it seemed to solve all my problems. I can get the dogs and items I don't want in the rain undercover, visibility seems good, and the vehicle looks good and has the appearance of being quite capable off-road. The e-locker would be a blessing! Unfortunately, the price and lack of room to "deal" rubs me the wrong way. Would a Trail model be close to the Pro with a few modifications. and at the same time save me a few dollars?

So, any and all insight is appreciated ...

BTW, the dealer has very few answers to technical questions..

Congratulations on seeing the light. Though I must admit, I really liked those ZR2 blazers when they came out with the 31's and the big fender flares. My college roommate had one and loved it but said the spare damn near eliminated rear visibility...anyway -

A Trail sounds like it would fit your needs. And you can get a Non-Premium or Premium depending on what you want and budget. Premium adds sunroof, auto dimming mirror, puddle mirror lights and mirror turn signals plus heated Softex seats.

The 4runner is the last of an old school type of SUV - imagine, an actual body on frame SUV, not a soft Highlander. Go for it...you don't see many, they hold their value well and are still made in Japan.

I actually think the base SR5 and mid grade Trail are well equipped from the factory so for me a Limited was completely and utterly not worth the low 40's price tag. The only thing I do wish is that I could get the Torsen center diff for AWD in the SR5. Would make sense to offer it there, and keep the Trail as the true part time 4x4 system.

 

[MilesToEmpty]

After much research, I found I can build a TRDP for significantly cheaper then Toyota sells it for, and get the KDSS (which is very nice for highway driving) and the sunroof.

 

[Dexter Morgan]

After much research, I found I can build a TRDP for significantly cheaper then Toyota sells it for, and get the KDSS (which is very nice for highway driving) and the sunroof.

As far as I'm aware, the TRDP is not available with KDSS or sunroof. Do you mean Trail Premium?

 

[Orc]

Get an sr5 or trail and add performance as needed. If you want to save money get an sr5 and add a set of $1000 dollar tires for some nice performance to cost ratio.

 

[BlacknTan]

Thanks gents, for all the good advice. I spoke to a fella' yesterday, and agreed with everything that others have stated here. He also told me about a local dealer that had one (1) Pro. Said it sold to a banker for $4K over MSRP. That ain't gonna' be me! My nearest dealer says he has one (1) coming in, but I have zero intention of getting to a bidding war for it!

I have no problem with a Trail model or SR5, but it appears the SR5 is only available with LSD ... I assume the same as the old PosiTraction units, and many people will be well served with this approach, but the e-locker is non-negotiable for me .. The one item I will not go without.

Puddle lights, (didn't even know what they were until yesterday,) side markers and a sun roof are way down the list of "must-haves," so, unless I'm reading many things wrong. The Trail Model seems to be for me. I'd like the SofTek seats of thr Trail; Premium, but it's not really important to me.

Does it sound like my assumptions here are all valid? Entering the world of a different manufacturer is not as easy as it could be...

Thanks for the help thus far...

Bill

 

[MilesToEmpty]

I wanted all the 4WD options that the trail came with over the SR5. And I really didnt like the knob for the 4WD system... felt cheap and looked tacky to me.

But I drove a SR5 Premium and enjoyed the pleather seats, especially the heated seats...

Ive managed to get a TEP down to 37500 (though costco car buying program) Its got the cross bars, cloth floormats, and fancy chrome tail pipe lol. I cant get them to move any farther on the price, so Im trying to get them to throw in a skid plate for me.

 

[Jetboy]

I would not buy a TRD Pro. It doesn't have KDSS and you can build a KDSS equipped Trail Premium with the same suspension or better for less because dealers won't move much on TRD pro prices.

I think you'll be surprised by how good the ATRAC is even without a real locker. It will vastly outperform an Eaton Trac-lock that your blazer has. I know. I have one in a GM2500. It might as well not have anything.

Of course if the rear locker is all you want from the Trail and you don't need kdss you can also add an ARB to the SR5 - but then you get ARB reliability... Most people with an ARB wont admit it - but we've all seen them fail on the trail whether it be internal seal failures, airlines ripped off, condensation related issues in cold weather, drowning the compressor in deep water, etc. Just the nature of using pneumatic actuation. There's a very good set of reasons you don't see many vacuum actuated parts on new cars. Just my .02 on that issue.

KDSS was my one must haves. Drive one with, one without on a curvy road. Some love it. Some don't. I think it depends a lot on what you're coming from on whether you think it's too soft without it. Decide which one you want.

For me the deciding factor on Trail vs Trail premium was the sunroof. The price difference will provide enough $ for probably nicer aftermarket heated leather seats installed. If you don't want a sunroof get the trail. If you do - go with the premium. I actually wanted the base trail but could only find a trail premium available, so that's what I got.

good luck!

 

[MilesToEmpty]

As far as I'm aware, the TRDP is not available with KDSS or sunroof. Do you mean Trail Premium?

TRD4U has the TRP suspension for $1500. Add $600 for the wheels, $800 for a set of tires.

The TEP I bought was 37500. Thats 40500 at the end of the day for a fully loaded nice TEP with the TRP packages.

 

[Dexter Morgan]

TRD4U has the TRP suspension for $1500. Add $600 for the wheels, $800 for a set of tires.

The TEP I bought was 37500. Thats 40500 at the end of the day for a fully loaded nice TEP with the TRP packages.

I see so it is not a factory option but add on. Honestly, you could probably do better for $1500 than the TRDP suspension.

 

[Saker]

Thanks gents, for all the good advice. I spoke to a fella' yesterday, and agreed with everything that others have stated here. He also told me about a local dealer that had one (1) Pro. Said it sold to a banker for $4K over MSRP. That ain't gonna' be me! My nearest dealer says he has one (1) coming in, but I have zero intention of getting to a bidding war for it!

I have no problem with a Trail model or SR5, but it appears the SR5 is only available with LSD ... I assume the same as the old PosiTraction units, and many people will be well served with this approach, but the e-locker is non-negotiable for me .. The one item I will not go without.

Puddle lights, (didn't even know what they were until yesterday,) side markers and a sun roof are way down the list of "must-haves," so, unless I'm reading many things wrong. The Trail Model seems to be for me. I'd like the SofTek seats of thr Trail; Premium, but it's not really important to me.

Does it sound like my assumptions here are all valid? Entering the world of a different manufacturer is not as easy as it could be...

Thanks for the help thus far...

Bill

Sounds like you did your homework and have it pretty much narrowed down.....
You could always negotiate on the Trail premium, then fall back to the trail if the #'s weren't good enough!

 

[wfo9]

Most people with an ARB wont admit it - but we've all seen them fail on the trail whether it be internal seal failures, airlines ripped off, condensation related issues in cold weather, drowning the compressor in deep water, etc. Just the nature of using pneumatic actuation.

Off Topic, but I agree with you that ARBs have the potential for failure, but so do e-lockers. Maybe less, but many people who have e-lockers rear ARB front regret that they don't have the instant engagement of the ARB in the rear. The only issue I have with my ARB is that disengagement is not always instant up front. Proper installation is is key on the ARBs. The compressor can go inside the truck if you like to do insane water fording.... I doubt many 5th gens would ever have that problem.

 

[gm350reratliff]

Thanks gents, for all the good advice. I spoke to a fella' yesterday, and agreed with everything that others have stated here. He also told me about a local dealer that had one (1) Pro. Said it sold to a banker for $4K over MSRP. That ain't gonna' be me! My nearest dealer says he has one (1) coming in, but I have zero intention of getting to a bidding war for it!

I have no problem with a Trail model or SR5, but it appears the SR5 is only available with LSD ... I assume the same as the old PosiTraction units, and many people will be well served with this approach, but the e-locker is non-negotiable for me .. The one item I will not go without.

Puddle lights, (didn't even know what they were until yesterday,) side markers and a sun roof are way down the list of "must-haves," so, unless I'm reading many things wrong. The Trail Model seems to be for me. I'd like the SofTek seats of thr Trail; Premium, but it's not really important to me.

Does it sound like my assumptions here are all valid? Entering the world of a different manufacturer is not as easy as it could be...

Thanks for the help thus far...

Bill

I also agree that, unless you find a dealer willing to let a TRDP go for way less than MSRP, you are better off (financially) with a TEP. When I was dealing on my TEP, my dealer wouldn't even accept a deposit for the pro because pricing was not out yet. I didn't want to wait any longer plus I already had a very good deal locked in on my TEP and a very good trade in value on my '12 F150 (which also had a fair share of issues). I've since lifted my TEP, added nicer wheels and tires, good floor liners (way more functional than those carpeted TRD ones), and sliders. I feel that it is on the same level or even above how the TRDP comes as far as functionality for less.

Like you, I wanted the e-locker. It works great for what I do. I also wanted the Softex seats because I have two kids, need I say more? I could've cared less if it has the sunroof or not because I don't use it. I view sunroofs as just something else to break or rattle. However, my wife really wanted the sunroof and does use it. I actually didn't want the KDSS either. With better coil-overs up front and better springs/shocks out back, I feel it now corners as if it did have KDSS. IMO, I also view KDSS as a potential problem down the road and not very cheap to fix if I had to pay for it. Just my $0.02.

Years ago I came close to buying a ZR2 s10 then later a ZR2 blazer. I've had a few Z71 silverados though. I know all to well about the gov lockers and 10 bolt rears in general. Back then I couldn't afford the ZR2 s10 but when I was able to, I found a ZR2 blazer. Was pretty turned off on the test drive when the front diff or rear locker wouldn't engage. At least the salesman helped me dig it out.

The TRD pros are nice and I do like that grill but you can't go wrong with either the TE or TEP. Same with the KDSS.