New Toy Hybrid Highlander is tha Bomb!
- Thread starter Fro-Runner
- Start date
ToolmanJohn
New member
Ditto the recoup cost effect
I don't know about 15 years, since I haven't priced one. But if the Hybrid costs only 10% more than the standard one, and the standard is , say, $30,000. Then the owner must recoup $3000 in fuel savings over ownership.
If the Hybrid gets 32 mpg versus 24 mpg for the standard engine, then that's 8 mpg difference. Using 15,000 miles a year as an average, that means a difference of 156 gallons. So the hybrid owner gets an effective $390/year savings at $2.50 a gallon. Also maybe a tax credit for an electric vehicle.
$3000/390 = 7+ years to break even. That's a long ass time.
Until someone crunches real numbers, and not the ones I guesstimated, and proves the Hybrid will cost less over 5 years of ownership, I will gladly keep my gas eater, than you very much.
I will try and research some real numbers. Now I am curious.
Koz said:
I don't know about 15 years, since I haven't priced one. But if the Hybrid costs only 10% more than the standard one, and the standard is , say, $30,000. Then the owner must recoup $3000 in fuel savings over ownership.
If the Hybrid gets 32 mpg versus 24 mpg for the standard engine, then that's 8 mpg difference. Using 15,000 miles a year as an average, that means a difference of 156 gallons. So the hybrid owner gets an effective $390/year savings at $2.50 a gallon. Also maybe a tax credit for an electric vehicle.
$3000/390 = 7+ years to break even. That's a long ass time.
Until someone crunches real numbers, and not the ones I guesstimated, and proves the Hybrid will cost less over 5 years of ownership, I will gladly keep my gas eater, than you very much.
I will try and research some real numbers. Now I am curious.
Hank
New member
You're right Bulldog-yota, the motor(s) require airflow for cooling. Four Wheeler Mag tested a hybrid (mild hybrid) Silverado and at low speeds the motor kicks in. They commented how the heat was rapidly building up when taken offroading. For the same reason, Toy should never make a hybrid 4R. The 4R isn't meant to be a fuel miser. If someone is shopping for a SUV with impressive fuel economy, look the RX400, Highlander or even a RAV4. Those hybrid electric motors don't belong in and are not welcomed in the 4R 
bulldog-yota
New member
Hank said:You're right Bulldog-yota, the motor(s) require airflow for cooling. Four Wheeler Mag tested a hybrid (mild hybrid) Silverado and at low speeds the motor kicks in. They commented how the heat was rapidly building up when taken offroading. For the same reason, Toy should never make a hybrid 4R. The 4R isn't meant to be a fuel miser. If someone is shopping for a SUV with impressive fuel economy, look the RX400, Highlander or even a RAV4. Those hybrid electric motors don't belong in and are not welcomed in the 4R
Maybe in future genrations it will improve, but the current tehnology is not there yet. I would love an electric engien that really work offroad, max torque at 0RPM. It will make crawl gears irrelevant, given the power and braking characteristics of an electric setup.
Bluto
New member
Re: Ditto the recoup cost effect
This is why I did not care going from a 28 mpg car to a 18 mpg SUV. 8-10 mpg is not a big deal.
You could throw the base 4 cylinder Highlander into the mix, 25 mpg. Can't get a limited 4cyl, but it cost $2000 less than a base V6. If Toyota made a 4 cylinder limited, it would cost about $11k less than the hybrid. How much is the extra power worth?
If you compare the cost/power/mpg/maintenance of a Prius to a 4 cylinder Matrix or Camry, you begin to wonder why hybrid?
Hybrids get the tax break. A benefit around here, you can drive in the HOV lane with a Hybrid, by yourself.
What is insurance like on a Hybrid? A slightly higher cost would offset any MPG benefits.
Why not a turbo diesel Toyota? I think Jeep and VW may be on alternative track. The Liberty and Golf have diesels, but not Toyota quality.
ToolmanJohn said:
This is why I did not care going from a 28 mpg car to a 18 mpg SUV. 8-10 mpg is not a big deal.
You could throw the base 4 cylinder Highlander into the mix, 25 mpg. Can't get a limited 4cyl, but it cost $2000 less than a base V6. If Toyota made a 4 cylinder limited, it would cost about $11k less than the hybrid. How much is the extra power worth?
If you compare the cost/power/mpg/maintenance of a Prius to a 4 cylinder Matrix or Camry, you begin to wonder why hybrid?
Hybrids get the tax break. A benefit around here, you can drive in the HOV lane with a Hybrid, by yourself.
What is insurance like on a Hybrid? A slightly higher cost would offset any MPG benefits.
Why not a turbo diesel Toyota? I think Jeep and VW may be on alternative track. The Liberty and Golf have diesels, but not Toyota quality.
fo'runner said:
I seriously doubt you wil ever see a Hybrid 4Runner.
The Highlander is basically a "lifted" Camry, just like the Lexus 330RX. They're urban SUV's, not intended for serious Off-Roading.
They're safer in case of a flood, though.
I also think Toyota should update the Highlander design, and make it sexier, more aggressive. It looks too '90s when compared to the Honda Pilot, Lexus 330RX or the Nissan Murano.
Koz
New member
Re: Re: New Toy Hybrid Highlander is tha Bomb!
Just what the doctor ordered!
http://www.edmunds.com/future/2007/toyota/highlander/100531781/preview.html
Koz
Offroader said:
Just what the doctor ordered!
http://www.edmunds.com/future/2007/toyota/highlander/100531781/preview.html
Koz
MAC4Runner
New member
On a side note my mother-in-law just picked up her Lexus RX400h and that things hauls #ss! It is much quicker than my V8 T4R, as you would expect for a car designed for the street. It even states in the owners manual that the RX400 is not intended for off-road use. LOL!
Northof49
New member
I dunno aobut that....maybe for everyone else, but Toyota has been making money on Prius's since 2000-2001Koz said:
Or are you talking of fuel savings for the customer...in which case, you'd be correct. Of course, there are other advantages such as greately reduced emissions, more low end torque, and an overall better torque curve with more power.
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Fro-Runner
New member
Re: Re: Re: New Toy Hybrid Highlander is tha Bomb!
Thanks for this bit of information Mr. Koz! I noticed in the article that it said the '07 Highlander was going to get a bigger V6 (it has a 3.3L now). Hmmm, could it mean that the '07 Highlander is going to get the 4Runner and Tacoma's 4.0L (increased 280 hp engine)? I figured all along that our engine was capable of producing more than 245 hp's. Very interesting.....especially since Honda and Nissian have already bumped up their V6 engines to 255 and 265 hp's respectively!
Koz said:
Thanks for this bit of information Mr. Koz! I noticed in the article that it said the '07 Highlander was going to get a bigger V6 (it has a 3.3L now). Hmmm, could it mean that the '07 Highlander is going to get the 4Runner and Tacoma's 4.0L (increased 280 hp engine)? I figured all along that our engine was capable of producing more than 245 hp's. Very interesting.....especially since Honda and Nissian have already bumped up their V6 engines to 255 and 265 hp's respectively!
Hank
New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: New Toy Hybrid Highlander is tha Bomb!
I think that TOY isn't pushing their engines to the limit or close to the limit like the other automakers are doing. I believe TOY "detuned" these engines for increased reliability and lifespan. Any engine can be tuned for the appropriate use in a vehicle. The new Avalon has a shorter stroke 3.5L of the 4R's 4.0L and puts out 280hp & 260lb-ft tq. I'm sure the 4.0L can be tuned to produce close to 300hp w/o a SC, but the tq curve may be affected. IMO, it's better not to push the envelope too much at the expense of the engine's lifespan and reliability.
Final thought: I think TOY purposely "handicapped" the '03-'04 V6s w/the 4spd tranny until the VVT-i V8 came out, then they gave the V6 the same 5spd tranny. Perhaps the 0-60 times played a role in their decision? I'm not trying to start another V6 vs V8 debate, just wondering if anyone else was thinking the same thing. Yes, the V8 is better, but not everyone require one, nor do they need 4wd based on their individual use of the vehicle.
fo'runner said:
I think that TOY isn't pushing their engines to the limit or close to the limit like the other automakers are doing. I believe TOY "detuned" these engines for increased reliability and lifespan. Any engine can be tuned for the appropriate use in a vehicle. The new Avalon has a shorter stroke 3.5L of the 4R's 4.0L and puts out 280hp & 260lb-ft tq. I'm sure the 4.0L can be tuned to produce close to 300hp w/o a SC, but the tq curve may be affected. IMO, it's better not to push the envelope too much at the expense of the engine's lifespan and reliability.
Final thought: I think TOY purposely "handicapped" the '03-'04 V6s w/the 4spd tranny until the VVT-i V8 came out, then they gave the V6 the same 5spd tranny. Perhaps the 0-60 times played a role in their decision? I'm not trying to start another V6 vs V8 debate, just wondering if anyone else was thinking the same thing. Yes, the V8 is better, but not everyone require one, nor do they need 4wd based on their individual use of the vehicle.
fastlif306
New member
You gotta remember you have to start somewhere with this stuff, gas engines were not that great when they first hit the market.
15 years from now, maybe some other power source and or technology will make things better. To where the price gap and what you gain are substantial to need/want it?
Diesel dirty. Hybrid electric, clean.
15 years from now, maybe some other power source and or technology will make things better. To where the price gap and what you gain are substantial to need/want it?
Diesel dirty. Hybrid electric, clean.
Fro-Runner
New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: New Toy Hybrid Highlander is tha Bomb!
I agree wholeheartly with your analysis of Toyota's delay at mating the 5 spd tranny with the V-6 engine powerplant. I have the '04 V-6 model and have always felt the engine was too much for the 4 spd. Heck, the 4 spd tranny is out of date nowadays! The 5 spd is the standard with 6 spd's becoming more mainstream and some luxury lines mentioning a 7 spd in the making. Also the CVT will move more into the mainstream for car based SUV's. I still feel like Toyota CHEATED me out of my 5 spd tranny! The 4 spd bangs when trying to figure out if it should downshift to 1st or 2nd gear when you slow to to nearly a stop to make a turn of continue through a traffic light just as it changes before you completely stop.
Also, I believe the '05's will get 1-2 mpg more on the highway when cruising at 70 mph. I just completed a 6000k round trip vacation only to find out you have to drive the 4spd not much over 65-67 mph to get the 21-21.5 mpg! Most state speed limits are 70-75 mph and the slightly taller 5th gear probably gives the '05's an efficient cruise speed of 70 mph.
Hey Toyota.......I want my 5 spd Tranny that you owe me for my '04 Runner!!!
Hank said:
I agree wholeheartly with your analysis of Toyota's delay at mating the 5 spd tranny with the V-6 engine powerplant. I have the '04 V-6 model and have always felt the engine was too much for the 4 spd. Heck, the 4 spd tranny is out of date nowadays! The 5 spd is the standard with 6 spd's becoming more mainstream and some luxury lines mentioning a 7 spd in the making. Also the CVT will move more into the mainstream for car based SUV's. I still feel like Toyota CHEATED me out of my 5 spd tranny! The 4 spd bangs when trying to figure out if it should downshift to 1st or 2nd gear when you slow to to nearly a stop to make a turn of continue through a traffic light just as it changes before you completely stop.
Also, I believe the '05's will get 1-2 mpg more on the highway when cruising at 70 mph. I just completed a 6000k round trip vacation only to find out you have to drive the 4spd not much over 65-67 mph to get the 21-21.5 mpg! Most state speed limits are 70-75 mph and the slightly taller 5th gear probably gives the '05's an efficient cruise speed of 70 mph.
Hey Toyota.......I want my 5 spd Tranny that you owe me for my '04 Runner!!!
I think it was actually some shrewd planning not from a marketing but a risk standpoint. The v6 was a new engine at the time the 4th gen came out as was the 5speed transmission.
They mated the proven v8 to the new 5speed and the new v6 to a proven 4 speed transmission. That way if problems started to occur they would be easier to nail down to either the new tranny or the new engine. It looks more like Toyota's methodical approach to development than a marketing scam.
They mated the proven v8 to the new 5speed and the new v6 to a proven 4 speed transmission. That way if problems started to occur they would be easier to nail down to either the new tranny or the new engine. It looks more like Toyota's methodical approach to development than a marketing scam.
Fro-Runner
New member
DaveS said:
Hmmm......that's a good logical point of view! Makes really good sense by Toyota; but I still want my 5 spd tranny they owe me!
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