New wheels and now new tire noise - very odd

[Kamil]

Hi,

Yes, I searched and I'm still searching, but here it goes.

In April of 2016, with 43,000 miles on the clock, I got a new set 265/17-17 BFG KO2 Load C installed on my factory 2010 SR5 17"x7" wheels. I had the car aligned. I played around with the pressure and found 38-ish PSI to be the best for me.

I have rotated the tires twice. There was always even wear. I should point out that I have always had Spiertrax spacers on, never an issue.

In November 2017, at 53,000 miles, I got an almost new set of OEM Trail wheels, 17"x7.5" from a forum member. I switched my KO2s and pressure sensors to the new wheels. I flipped the tires around so that the white lettering is out, just for giggles. Mounted, balanced, aligned, everything was beautiful.

Then, almost suddenly, I noticed a lot of tire noise on the highway. Typical, old, humming, annoying, tire noise. It's getting progressively louder and more audible at lower and lower speeds. Current mileage is 55,500.

The tires are mounted properly. They're not directional. Pressures are good. Proper alignment. Proper torque on lug-nuts. The thing drives and brakes straight. Everything is perfect except for the damn tire noise at over 35MPH.

I am truly puzzled by this. Could it be because I flipped the tires to white sides out? But that would be the same as rotating them.
Could it be the half-inch wider wheels? Or the half-inch wider wheels + spacer combo? It's a popular set-up and I have not heard any complaints.
Could the KO2s have just reached that magical mileage where they suddenly get loud? I've seen people complain about that.

I'm bringing the 4R to another shop tomorrow. I'll explain everything but I don't think they'll find anything. I guess I could start experimenting but... ugh... I don't have a garage or the time to play around with this.

Suggestions?

 

[Kamil]

I also want to mention that other than the road noise, the tires have been nothing but awesome. In fact I'd say these are the best tires I ever had. Most of the time I don't even switch 4WD in New England winters.

 

[Jetboy]

By changing wheel and tire rotation (inside is now outside) you changed how the tread will hit the road. I'd bet that there was some very slight amount of cupping or wear on the tread blocks that is now making noise. I'd let them wear for a few thousand miles and it'll probably go away.

Just my guess. Otherwise it's plausible that it's wind noise from the tires catching the air differently, but that seems pretty unlikely. It's a small change. So it shouldn't make much difference.

 

[1jzgte]

wheel bearings?

 

[Kamil]

By changing wheel and tire rotation (inside is now outside) you changed how the tread will hit the road. I'd bet that there was some very slight amount of cupping or wear on the tread blocks that is now making noise. I'd let them wear for a few thousand miles and it'll probably go away.

Just my guess. Otherwise it's plausible that it's wind noise from the tires catching the air differently, but that seems pretty unlikely. It's a small change. So it shouldn't make much difference.

So, if now I rotated them side-to-side, as opposed to front-to-back, I should have them rotating in the same direction.

1jzgte - Bearings are fine but I'll double check. Thanks!

 

[03_4x4Runner]

I would do what Jetboy said and just run them as they are a while.

 

[MattAK]

To your last point, can confirm that KO2's get noisy. My 275's have ~32k miles on them right now and they've gotten noticeably noisier the last several months.
Jetboy is probably spot on, especially if you've only done front to back rotations and not changed sides at all.

 

[Jetboy]

So, if now I rotated them side-to-side, as opposed to front-to-back, I should have them rotating in the same direction.

1jzgte - Bearings are fine but I'll double check. Thanks!

You normally do want to reverse direction during the rotate with two tires - so over time they all end up in every position on the vehicle. The only thing you don't ever get to do in normal rotation is to change the tire wear from inside to outside. For example if the outside of your front tires is wearing quickly as a result of excess toe - you can't fix that wear pattern even if you swap side to side - it's still the outside, just on the other side of the vehicle. So if they were feathering or wearing just a little different, putting the outside on the inside might make a little difference.

The reality is that front tires almost always wear a slight bit more on the outside as a result of toe in. And by putting them on the back they wear the rest of the tire down just a bit and re-level it all out. By keeping them rotated it constantly fixes the uneven front wear, but also fixes the fact that the rear drive tires wear out faster. Running them every different way helps keep all the different wear patterns balancing eachother out.

I would just drive it a bit and see what happens. I don't think you did anything wrong. It's just an odd anomaly of wear that might cause some noise for a few miles. If you keep on a regular rotation schedule it should self correct. It was probably just as likely that you would have made them quieter. You probably wouldn't have noticed it in that case.

 

[sandwich]

It could be the front diff groaning and humming, there's a TSB for some needle bearing replacement.
Mine had it bad, and it sounded almost exactly like road noise from the tires.

Edit to add.. if it's getting progressively louder at lower speeds you might just have the diff bearing issue. Mine started just at highway speeds, then it started groaning around town which led me to believe it wasn't the tires

 

[NorthwoodsRunner]

Suggestions?

Are your tires directional?

 

[TeeDub21]

Not sure about the tire noise, but good god man, get some Ajax and a scrub brush on those white letters!

 

[WallyT4R]

In my experience, the more miles that get put on the BFG's the louder they get up to a certain point and then stay the same until replaced. Mine are currently at around 10-11k now and have gotten louder over the last few months, especially at slower speeds and when coming to a stop.

 

[kurt1305]

Same tires on my daughter's Wrangler JKU. If not rotated every 5,000 miles they cupped badly. She replaced them at 23,000 miles not because they were worn out, but because they were insanely loud.

 

[Jivewalker]

Mine got more noticeable over first 10k miles, enough so that I can feel them in the brake pedal. Nature of the beast vs having highway tires. So far, love the KO2's. My preference is 32psi. After a dealer oil change/rotation, I noticed increased hum. When I checked the pressures, the dealer had them up to around 36psi. I think that may have made it more noticeable and I have been too lazy to drop them back down to 32, but will do so soon and see if it lessens.

 

[Kamil]

It could be the front diff groaning and humming, there's a TSB for some needle bearing replacement.
Mine had it bad, and it sounded almost exactly like road noise from the tires.

Edit to add.. if it's getting progressively louder at lower speeds you might just have the diff bearing issue. Mine started just at highway speeds, then it started groaning around town which led me to believe it wasn't the tires

I just googled that. Wow, interesting. The check is to see if it does in in 4WD... but I don't think I've ever gone more than 40mph in 4WD.
Thank you.

 

[Kamil]

Not sure about the tire noise, but good god man, get some Ajax and a scrub brush on those white letters!

:biggrin2:

Haha, this was when I just flipped the tires after 10k miles of crap. I ran thru a car wash twice since then... looks the same.

 

[LandCruiser]

Those tires are going to wail and hum.

My Destination MTs are loud as hell.

 

[Kamil]

Shop called:
- Tires are fine.
- Front left wheel bearing needs a replacement.



I gotta say, I didn't see that coming. And it's not the needle roller bearing for which there's a TSB for.

Yea, the thing is like eight years old now but it only has 55,000 miles on it.

 

[Bodhi327]

?

So that was the issue? Problem solved? Cause on my wife’s wrangler with those tires, they made more road noise each time I had them rotated. Finally gave up and went with a less aggressive tire.

 

[1jzgte]

Shop called:
- Tires are fine.
- Front left wheel bearing needs a replacement.



I gotta say, I didn't see that coming. And it's not the needle roller bearing for which there's a TSB for.

Yea, the thing is like eight years old now but it only has 55,000 miles on it.

Wheel bearings are pretty unpredictable. My 2007 Rav4 back in the day went through 2 front wheel bearings by 60K.. just out of friggin warranty..then again it was the wifes car and alignment wasnt straight for at least 3 years.. i expected better reliability out of the rav4.. however my 2007 camry hybrid is still on original wheel bearings at 140K..

I do wanna say that it could be your wheel spacers that caused early failure..