New York State to Ban Brush Guards

[RunnerUp]

I think you can even find a thread on this forum where someone openly admits that their dark tint on the side windows does reduce their visibility - primarily at night.

um.... i will go ahead and say it right now... i have 5% tint all the way around with 30% right down the front windshield....

all you cop's out there arent allowed to ticket me because of 4runner love so...

it def. does help an AMAZING amount during the day, makes driving so much better during these HOT and BRIGHT days in florida.

what i dont like is it is difficult to see out of the back window at night, and if someone doesnt have their headlights on, i cant see them as soon as i could if i had "clear" glass.

dont get my wrong, ive had this tint on my truck since 2003, and will get it retinted with the same level when this tint gets scratched or starts to fade (go Llumar) just because i feel safer and more comfortable.

it is a fact that angry people will not be as violent against a vehicle that they cannot tell how many people are inside, or if there happens to be a gun pointed at the road rage'd driver who got out of his car to scream and yell, so most people dont do it.

now back to brush guards, even my ARB is designed to work with air bags, and if anything, it would spread the force of impact across both frame rails leading to the entire front end to "crumple" in a bad enough wreck.

picture of ARB being tested for collision

 

[sharp4runr]

Just one law? Okay, how about the law banning smoking in public places? Proponents maintain that second-hand smoke causes lung cancer. Has this ever been proven? Nope. Logic dictates that it is more than likely, but it's not even possible to prove that someone who has cancer got the cancer from second-hand smoke. The bill was passed into law anyway, with any hard proof.

http://www.who.int/tobacco/research/secondhand_smoke/faq/en/index.html

Seatbelts don't save lives. Don't wear your seatbelt Fourty-four. Also, motorcycle helmets cause neck injuries and do not help in motorcycle crashes. Leave that at home too... :rolleye2:

 

[RunnerUp]

oh, and i would just like to add real fast that if i do happen to get pulled over for something. as soon as i see the officer behind me i start rolling down ALL my windows, so that he/she can see everything in my car as they are walking up. no reason to piss off the people that protect us.... besides, i would really hate to be at the receiving end of a cocked and locked pistol for a simple traffic stop

 

[sharp4runr]

If you agree that it does have an effect on the energy transfer, then it doesn't matter how much of an effect it has.

If you don't agree with this simple scenario, then you obviously will not agree that a brush guard can change the decelerative forces of an impact. And that's just crazy to deny.

I agreed it MAY have an effect. It MAY DECREASE the effect. Want to prove me wrong? Get the hard numbers...

 

[abin]

helmet wore when riding motorcycle may cause additional impact to other vehicle and driver in accident.

 

[abin]

if they pass the law, ARB will not survive.
believe me.

 

[Expat]

Yes, and to further clarify...I can't wait to get my new bullbar and winch fitted and windows tinted. Call me a rebel

 

[Expat]

if they pass the law, ARB will not survive.
believe me.

ARB will not be affected by one states arbitary law.

In Oz (home of the ARB bullbar) this arguement has been off and on for years. In 1978 I fitted my first bullbar to a 4Runner (Hilux in Oz) and even then there were plans to legislate against bullbars. Well....it didn't happen and ARB are a much bigger company selling way more than just bullbars today.

 

[JB.]

ARB will not be affected by one states arbitary law.

In Oz (home of the ARB bullbar) this arguement has been off and on for years. In 1978 I fitted my first bullbar to a 4Runner (Hilux in Oz) and even then there were plans to legislate against bullbars. Well....it didn't happen and ARB are a much bigger company selling way more than just bullbars today.

Interesting. So this is nothin' new then.

 

[Bluto]

I'm simply saying that you do NOT have to remove your tint to drive in a state that bans tint, such as a NY vehicle owner driving in NJ (illegal to tint the front side windows there).

In VA, just about anyone can get a firearm permit for their vehicle. Better take it out before you come into MD.

 

[Bluto]

Res. No. 103


..Title

Resolution urging the State Legislature to ban the use of grille-guards/bull bars on the front of all motor vehicles that operate in the city of New York.

..Body



By Council Member Vallone Jr.


Whereas, The grille-guard, also known as a bull bar, brush guard or roo bar, are metal bars installed on the front bumper of motor vehicles, originally designed to protect the vehicle from animal collisions and bumps and scratches normally associated with off-roading; and

Whereas, The original intention of grille-guards is not applicable in most metropolitan regions of the United States such as New York City, but rather are used to protect against minor bumps incurred within city limits or most often, simply are used as a cosmetic accessory; and

Whereas, Modern vehicle designs include a crumple zone at the front of the vehicle to cushion the impact and reduce the force pressed upon vehicle occupants; however, most grille-guard designs bridge the crumple zone with a rigid structure, exposing the occupants to a much greater risk of injury; and

Whereas, Although life-saving airbags are equipped with sensors that signal the airbag operation, grille-guards may obstruct the sensors and render the airbag useless in the event of an accident, further exposing the occupants to a higher risk of injury; and

Whereas, Grille-guards pose a greater threat to pedestrians and cyclists because in a collision with a pedestrian or cyclist, the extra rigidity of grille-guards would cause greater direct injury, and since the point of impact tends to be higher, the victim bears the full brunt of the impact; and

Whereas, Grille-guards pose a greater threat to the drivers and passengers of other vehicles because in collisions with other cars, the force of impact tends to be higher on the struck vehicle, which may directly hit the chest or head of the occupants; and

Whereas, A 1998 study by Australia

 

[Koz]

Ha ha ha. Now I'm a troll because I don't like grille guards.

BTW, I looked at the pictures of yours, and I think it looks horrible. That's only my opinion though. Yours obviously differs.

I still think they look like they belong on a Land Rover in the African jungle.:arrow:

No, a Troll is a person that posts negative personal opinions in a condescending way, purposely, to cause disruptive negative responses. It's like the problem child that does things to get negative attention. How does it go? Negative attention, is better then no attention.

I want to thank you for the compliment you gave me, with your negative personal opinion on my brush guard choice. I feel that your disapproval on my choice means we think differently, which is GOOD.

Koz

 

[Brewster]

Well, I hadn't looked at the site for awhile, and it sure took a long time to read through this thread. It's of interest to me because I would like to have a brush guard to protect my radiator, etc., from a deer strike, but I agree that there are disadvantages.

I have seen two full size pickups which had hit mule deer with no damage to the brush guards. One guard was "Ranch Hand" brand. I don't recall the other brand.

The Manik guard that I considered buying did not look as if it would survive a deer strike. Would it perhaps protect enough components to leave the 4Runner drivable? The brush guard dealer didn't think so.

Is there a brush guard that offers adequate protection? Has anyone here had the unfortunate experience yet (with a guard)?

 

[abin]

so i change my mind.... if NY (city rather than state) pass the law, i am going to sell my 4runner, or at least the grille guard, and move to big apple. i believe i can be rich by filing law suit based on this including folks like you driving from other states. the reason is simple, there is no jungle/off road in NYC, and someone is going to be hit by this thing (not limited to b.g. or g.g.). they should also include extra long vehicle such as limo since addional vehicle length increases the chance of collisions. but one thing at a time. bumpers should also be banned because it is bumper hit people before the grille.

Other than the test in Australia, total BS scare tatics. Did the brush guard kill Dereck, or the 6000 pound Silverado behind it?

Logically a ban does have some merit. But have an automotive industry expert testify with supporting scientific facts, then I'll believe it.

There are plenty of cosmetic accessories negatively affecting safety to ban.

edit: some info from down under

http://www.dpi.wa.gov.au/mediafiles/lic_ci-112a.pdf

The NHTSA does not regulate SUV/truck/minivan bumpers. Maybe NY should ban them all together.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/studies/Bumper/Index.html

 

[abin]

since i have grille guard installed, i feel other vehicles are keeping away from my 4runner. i feel the same way on deers.
forgot to mention that you don't have to go off road to be hit by a deer in my neighbourhood. they are everywhere, dead or alive. NYC is not.

Well, I hadn't looked at the site for awhile, and it sure took a long time to read through this thread. It's of interest to me because I would like to have a brush guard to protect my radiator, etc., from a deer strike, but I agree that there are disadvantages.

I have seen two full size pickups which had hit mule deer with no damage to the brush guards. One guard was "Ranch Hand" brand. I don't recall the other brand.

The Manik guard that I considered buying did not look as if it would survive a deer strike. Would it perhaps protect enough components to leave the 4Runner drivable? The brush guard dealer didn't think so.

Is there a brush guard that offers adequate protection? Has anyone here had the unfortunate experience yet (with a guard)?

 

[abin]

in MD, it has to be not reachable by anyone in that vehicle including passengers....that makes me feel safe.

In VA, just about anyone can get a firearm permit for their vehicle. Better take it out before you come into MD.

 

[Fourty-four]

http://www.who.int/tobacco/research/secondhand_smoke/faq/en/index.html

Seatbelts don't save lives. Don't wear your seatbelt Fourty-four. Also, motorcycle helmets cause neck injuries and do not help in motorcycle crashes. Leave that at home too... :rolleye2:

Hey, you asked for one example and I provided it for you. Like I said, it's common sense that second hand smoke can cause lung cancer, but it is impossible to prove with hard data because nobody can prove the reason someone got lung cancer.

Regardless of this FACT, the law banning smoking in public places still passed legislation and is now law in NY.

Still want to debate that laws are only passed with hard data?

 

[Fourty-four]

I agreed it MAY have an effect. It MAY DECREASE the effect. Want to prove me wrong? Get the hard numbers...

I don't need hard numbers. It's common sense.

Are you really going to deny that a brush guard attached to the frame of a vehicle will not negatively affect energy transfer in a crash? Was it you who claimed to have an engineering background? If so, then I'm sure you would understand such a simple concept.

Besides, without spending a ton of cash and crashing several vehicles, I don't think I could provide you with any hard numbers. Therefore, common sense will just have to prevail.

 

[Fourty-four]

since i have grille guard installed, i feel other vehicles are keeping away from my 4runner. i feel the same way on deers.
forgot to mention that you don't have to go off road to be hit by a deer in my neighbourhood. they are everywhere, dead or alive. NYC is not.

Are you serious? Do you honestly believe that other vehicles and deer keep away from your 4Runner because you have a grille guard?

I'm sure that 99% of other drivers on the road don't even notice your grille guard or give it a second glance. And don't even get me started on a deer avoiding your 4Runner because of a grille guard.

 

[RunnerUp]

i actually have noticed, that when i drive around town in my truck, i dont seem to get cut off as much as when i drive around in my friends car.

i dont know if its the bumper, the road noise, or snorkel, perhaps its the winch inside the bumper that some people notice, or perhaps they just see a large black vehicle barrelling down the road. but i can def. say that i notice a large difference in the number of people that pull in front of me or cut me off. i dont get brake checked by anyone with a decent car or a good sense of self-preservation.