Nitrogen Dilema

[blacksmithdog]

I didn't care for the Bridgestone Dueler H/T's that came on my 2010 4runner. They looked OK for highway tires, but we go quail and pheasant hunting in the fall and winter, and drive on the beach once or twice a year when it's warmer. they probably would have been all right for sand, but...., I wanted some tires with a bit more tread for when we go hunting. I settled on the Michelin
LTX A/T2's, looked like a nice compromise between on and off road. So I bought them at CostCo and when I went to pick up the vehicle, I notice it has the green valve stem caps on it, I think to myself "oh, nitrogen". Well, nitrogen in tires is pretty cool, they run cooler at high speeds, and it doesn't leak out as much. So....., I'm driving home and think to myself "oh crap, what do I do when I take it to the beach to drive on the sand and I air the tires down?"

I guess there are a couple of options:

1. Just fill them back up using the portable air compressor, and the next time I have them rotated, have then purge the air/nitrogen and replace with pure nitrogen?

2. Get one of those 10 gallon air tanks, and have it filled up with nitrogen (I assume I could go to a tire place and they would do that for me?)? So, if I air all four tires down from 32 to 20 psi, how many times could I pump them up with the 10 gallon tank?

Are there any other options?

thanks!

 

[Jed]

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Just pump them back up with regular old air, which is approximately 78% nitrogen anyway...

I always get a kick out of the nitrogen discussions!

 

[Awz]

Normal air. I filled my corolla tires (before I had the 4runner) with nitrogen. since I worked at the shop I took my time and made sure it was done exactly right. No mileage increase, no change in tire wear. The only thing I noticed is that it was about 6 months before they had leaked down enough to make any king of difference, as opposed to 3. Nitrogen IMO is a money making gimmick, the machines that extract the air costs thousands of dollars, and most places charge you for it.

Mike

 

[CO_FlyFisher]

I'm surprised the Nitrogen gimmick has lasted this long. My hunch is that when Costco's nitrogen machines start failing, they won't be replacing them and just buying regular old air compressors again. Pure Nitrogen doesn't buy you any kind of noticable benefit (b/c as Jed pointed out, air is appx. 78% Ni anyway, the bulk of the remaining components is Oxygen at about 20%) other than maybe having to check your tires quite as often since the Oxygen tends to permeate out.

 

[Koz]

Nitrogen is not a gimmick (been around a long time), it's just not practical for passenger cars. There are two main advantages to nitrogen; optimal pressure will be maintained four times longer and there will be less pressure fluctuation when there is a temp change. Remember with air you will lose 1lb a month no matter what and 1lb for every 10 degrees. Nitrogen is very effective for commercial vehicles and aircraft.

My personal feelings are; if you can get it for free, use it. If you have to pay for it, I would pass. Would be good for motorcycles and racing applications.

Koz

 

[CO_FlyFisher]

Koz, that is correct. I should have made the stipulation for passenger vehicles in my post. Another place where it is extremely useful is in racing.

 

[Jed]

Yeah, I'll still live just fine with the 78% nitrogen in the air instead of worrying about the other 22% in pure nitrogen. I mean seriously...the air in my tires right now is more than 3/4 nitrogen by default!

 

[J-money$$$]

dont buy a nitrogen tank to fill tires. A tank will not give you very many fill ups. Nitrogen is stored as a gas in the tanks, compared to co2 which is liquid therefore giving you the extra expansion from a liquid to a gas

 

[Maritimer]

1. Just fill them back up using the portable air compressor, and the next time I have them rotated, have then purge the air/nitrogen and replace with pure nitrogen?

Just make sure you take the same psi out of each tire and add the same psi with the compressor, and then never think about it again. Pure nitrogen and normal air have different heat expansion, so it could cause psi differences later because of the gas ratio differences.

 

[nated05]

I have nitrogen in my tires only because it was free, I would not pay for it. The city I live in offers free nitrogen to all residents. I am just looking forward to not stopping at the gas station to air up once the weather gets cooler this fall. It is supposed to help on gas mileage, but I think it was $15/yr based on my car and how many miles I drive.

 

[rook]

Yeah, I'll still live just fine with the 78% nitrogen in the air instead of worrying about the other 22% in pure nitrogen. I mean seriously...the air in my tires right now is more than 3/4 nitrogen by default!

:trophy:

And if the compressor has a good air-drying system, there will be little to no difference between air and N2

 

[Pikeman]

I agree with J-Money. In the same 10# tank CO2 yeilds just over 3 times the volume of Nitrogen. With me 10# tank I can air my set of 285/75/16 from 15-35psi 5 times(20tires)

 

[samspade58]

you buy nitrogen to save your tire pressure monitoring system, no moisture. those little beast are about $280 apiece, x5 = $1400. $20-$40 for nitrogen sounds like cheap insurance to me.

 

[Maritimer]

you buy nitrogen to save your tire pressure monitoring system, no moisture. those little beast are about $280 apiece, x5 = $1400. $20-$40 for nitrogen sounds like cheap insurance to me.

It all sounds like overkill with an attempt to save us from using a tire pressure gauge once a week.

 

[driffter33]

I agree with J-Money. In the same 10# tank CO2 yeilds just over 3 times the volume of Nitrogen. With me 10# tank I can air my set of 285/75/16 from 15-35psi 5 times(20tires)

:iagree:
And with co2 it is lighting fast to fill up your tires and then a couple of your buddies tires as well.

you buy nitrogen to save your tire pressure monitoring system, no moisture. those little beast are about $280 apiece, x5 = $1400. $20-$40 for nitrogen sounds like cheap insurance to me.
:iagree:


The CO2 I use it because I don't have to worry about a monitoring system and because For me it is free and fast, and I adjust my tire pressure often as I go offroading 12-15psi around town 32-35psi long road trips 42psi
I also have free supply of nitrogen but a larger cylinder of nitrogen will not last anywhere near as long as the CO2 as stated by pikeman and j-money$$$

I have also used the CO2 to run a impact wrench once to change a tire on my 3/4/ ton Chevy work van:bluejump:

 

[turbodudey2]

Also... just a side note. As it's been said that air is already 78% N2 already, and it's the O2 that tends to permeate out of the tires faster than N2, every time your top off your tires you slightly increase the percentage of N2. So after a while you'd end up with mostly N2 inside the tires anyway.

 

[samspade58]

Also... just a side note. As it's been said that air is already 78% N2 already, and it's the O2 that tends to permeate out of the tires faster than N2, every time your top off your tires you slightly increase the percentage of N2. So after a while you'd end up with mostly N2 inside the tires anyway.

what your talking about would take years to happen. you would put new tires on your truck before the N reached the necessary concentration and the whole time your sensors are being destroyed. spend the $40.:roadkill:

 

[turbodudey2]

what your talking about would take years to happen. you would put new tires on your truck before the N reached the necessary concentration and the whole time your sensors are being destroyed. spend the $40.

Well almost, yes. Not quite "years", more like about a year and a half.

I didn't do the calculation before, because I was just sort of generally stating that's what will tend to happen (if you don't air down, or get a flat, or get new tires, etc).

I was actually somewhat surprised at the rate of N2 increase with a 1 psi per month top off. Assuming a 33 inch tire (285/75R16 because that's what I have), after one year of topping off you'd be at 93% N2 and then just a few more months and you'd be at about 98%.

Theoretically you'd continue to get quite close to 100% but in reality you'd probably top out at about 98-99%.

Also, I'm really not sure what "sensors" you're talking about. Perhaps I should have read the rest of the thread more closely, but regardless I was just making a general statement, or side-note, if you will.

 

[rook]

The difference is size between O2 and N2 is
very small, only about 0.3 times 10 to the -10th meters (0.00000000003 meters).

 

[driffter33]

I''l stick to the scientific method of tire pressure gauge reads 35psi, I'm going wheeling let psi out to 15 psi. done wheeling gauge reads 15 psi add psi to 35 psi. drive check once a month keep at 35 psi with what ever method is available at the time WOW:redbrick: that was tough. :lol: