No snow chains on all four wheels?

[Joshua8200]

I've been unable to find a satifactory explanation as to why you cannot properly install chains on the front wheels of a 2005 4Runner.

I recently came across the rarest of situations that required chains on my 4x4 SR5 4Runner. Actually...I was able to get up the hill simply in 4wd. I did not fair as well on the descent, but was able to make it into a driveway (just not the right driveway). Two other vehicles coming down ended up in ditches. The tow truck ended up in the ditch too, but was able to fight their way out.

I ended up borrowing some cables, and used them without any problems on the hills for the last few days. I put the cables on all 4 wheels in order to drive up and down these beastly steep and icy hills to access a vacation cabin.

Did I get lucky that I didn't mess anything up by putting cables on the front wheels? Would chains have messed something up? Are cables OK on the front, but not chains because of clearance issues?

Here's a picture of the carnage:

Note the tire skid marks in the foreground of the picture are from the tow truck sliding around when they turned around.

 

[Joshua8200]

More views of the fun:

I was able to stay on the road once I started sliding. When I came to a stop, I was perpendicular to the road. I busted up the ice and pulled into the driveway pictured.

Luckily I was out of the road, when this the Explorer started sliding.

You can also see, the ditch on the right side of the picture looks kind of chewed up. That's the ditch the tow truck ended up in (they didn't chain up either). The tow truck driver managed to back the truck down the ditch by riding the edge and taking out and using the saplings lining the ditch for traction. At the bottom of the hill, he changed his underwear and took a smoke break before declaring that anyone stuck on that hill was just going to have to be there for awhile.

Looking down from about 1/2 up:

 

[Casper421]

Actually...I was able to get up the hill simply in 4wd. I did not fair as well on the descent, but was able to make it into a driveway (just not the right driveway). Two other vehicles coming down ended up in ditches. The tow truck ended up in the ditch too, but was able to fight their way out.

I ended up borrowing some cables, and used them without any problems on the hills for the last few days. I put the cables on all 4 wheels in order to drive up and down these beastly steep and icy hills to access a vacation cabin.

In stupidity, ive seen numerous people put chains on the non-drive wheels :lol: , but in some situations ive seen 4X4's with front chains or rears. I understand cuz it helps heavier vehicles like 3/4+ ton trucks and large SUV's stop in snow/ice , but get stud's and you wont regret it!! Where was this?

 

[Joshua8200]

but get stud's and you wont regret it!! Where was this?

This is near Gatlinburg, TN. The road pictured is paved but not maintained (except for about 25lb of salt put out by a gentleman that lives at the top year round and some shovel work my brother and I did). I highly doubt NC or TN allow you to run on studs...

 

[JB.]

I've been unable to find a satifactory explanation as to why you cannot properly install chains on the front wheels of a 2005 4Runner.

I recently came across the rarest of situations that required chains on my 4x4 SR5 4Runner. Actually...I was able to get up the hill simply in 4wd. I did not fair as well on the descent, but was able to make it into a driveway (just not the right driveway). Two other vehicles coming down ended up in ditches. The tow truck ended up in the ditch too, but was able to fight their way out.

I ended up borrowing some cables, and used them without any problems on the hills for the last few days. I put the cables on all 4 wheels in order to drive up and down these beastly steep and icy hills to access a vacation cabin.

Did I get lucky that I didn't mess anything up by putting cables on the front wheels? Would chains have messed something up? Are cables OK on the front, but not chains because of clearance issues?

Did you use downhill assist? If there was ever a legitimate use for it, that was it.

Front clearance is very tight and, between brake lines and steering components, you wouldn't want any stray cables or chains getting loose up there. Put your hand over the top of the tire and feel down the other sidewall past where it starts to curve in again towards the wheel. You'll feel what I mean.

I've considered tight clearance cables for the fronts but never used them. I'd say keep the speed way down compared to having them on rears only. That would give you a chance to recover from anything coming loose -- and cables can come off if you ever have to spin them.

They do make expensive gizmos that don't use the innner side of the tire.

Good chains on the rears takes care of most everything but, with rears only and when it's that bad, it's advisable to take a close look at terrain and steering lines for coming down. The smallest patch of good traction can keep you headed in the right direction. I'll bet that was nearly impossible to even walk on. I have a foldable hiking staff in my truck at all times for, among other things, stuff like that.

 

[Joshua8200]

Did you use downhill assist? If there was ever a legitimate use for it, that was it.

Yes...and it was working very hard. I'd like to say my driving ability kept me on the road...though maybe the DAC is what allowed me to maintain enough control to stay out of the ditches.

I'll bet that was nearly impossible to even walk on. I have a foldable hiking staff in my truck at all times for, among other things, stuff like that.

Many a butt was busted slipping and sliding on at hill, even trying to walk on the softer snow. I had ski poles to help out, but a set of crampons would have been better.

 

[fourwd1]

I've been unable to find a satifactory explanation as to why you cannot properly install chains on the front wheels of a 2005 4Runner.

What makes you think you can't ??

 

[JB.]

What makes you think you can't ??

From the '05 manual.

"Do not use tire
chains on the front tires."

 

[Joshua8200]

From the '05 manual.

"Do not use tire
chains on the front tires."

Yeah, I'm looking for an explanation of this line. I find it hard to believe that a set of SAE S Class chains would not be OK on the front tires. I mean if chains are made that will fit FWD cars...surely chains can be fit tight enough on a 4Runner.

 

[OffroadJunglist]

I think they write this in the manual because on newer cars, there isn't that much space in the front wheel house. And to avoid damages, they give that advice.

greetz, Tom

 

[nismojason]

I've been up in the mountains above Gatlinburg many times. Every time hoping to get a large snow fall to see what it would be like. But in the back of my mind, I would have been very nervous had it happened.

So after you put the chains on all (4) wheels you didn't have any problems at all going up and down?

 

[brian2sun]

I've been unable to find a satifactory explanation as to why you cannot properly install chains on the front wheels of a 2005 4Runner.

Because the distance between the inside of the tire and the front upper control arm is too close. If you add wheels spacers, get skinnier tires, or get wheels with less backspacing then you could run chains in the front without issue. The manual just doesn't advise it because they know people can't be trusted to make decisions like that.

In stupidity, ive seen numerous people put chains on the non-drive wheels :lol: , but in some situations ive seen 4X4's with front chains or rears. I understand cuz it helps heavier vehicles like 3/4+ ton trucks and large SUV's stop in snow/ice , but get stud's and you wont regret it!! Where was this?

Studs are for ice or just a couple inches of snow. More than a few inches and the studs won't dig down deep enough to hit the pavement so they won't do you much good on an unplowed road.

Putting chains on the front works better than having them on the rear (for any kind of front-engine 4x4 vehicle). The weight of the motor gives you better traction on the front tires and you'll have much more steering control. And yes, it's hilarious when people put their chains on the wrong drive wheels on a 2wd. I would highly recommend not using cables because they are junk and you'll waste money. When you really need them, they'll break or just fall off.

 

[Joshua8200]

Because the distance between the inside of the tire and the front upper control arm is too close.

Are you absolutely positive of this? The specifications for SAE class S chains needs only 0.59in of clearance. I haven't gotten out a ruler to measure the clearances, but I surely don't see anything that would be anywhere near that close. Even the other classes of chains need very little clearance (1.5in at the high end). Snow chains - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is my hypothesis that Toyota lists only putting them on the rear tires because the standard 4Runner is RWD, and 4x4 is optional. The recommendation in the manual is made universally for 4Runners with standard equipment and does not account for 4x4 models.

I asked at the dealership and spoke to a service technician. He hypothesized that it was because of clearance issues but did not know of the SAE class specifications and clearance classes.

 

[Joshua8200]

So after you put the chains on all (4) wheels you didn't have any problems at all going up and down?

No problems whatsoever. I could literally stop and go on the hill, even when it was icy, at will.

 

[brian2sun]

Are you absolutely positive of this?

No, I'm not sure about your particular truck because that depends on a few things... tire size (width), A/T or M/T, and wheel backspacing. I was just saying that if you in fact can't run chains on the front, that would be why (the clearance between the tire and the UCA). Chains loosen up and flop around as you use them, and sometimes have to be tightened a few times as you drive on them. As a rule of thumb, I wouldn't run chains up there unless you have at least an inch of clearance.

 

[JB.]

Yeah, I'm looking for an explanation of this line. I find it hard to believe that a set of SAE S Class chains would not be OK on the front tires. I mean if chains are made that will fit FWD cars...surely chains can be fit tight enough on a 4Runner.

I've always been satisfied with the "too much important stuff up front with questionable clearance" explanation, but who knows.

As for the clearance,

My tires are stock width ATs and 1"taller. Clearances are: upper control arm 1.5", top of steering knuckle 1.1", down a short ways on the knuckle there is a bump, that clearance is barely more than 1/2" although it appears the bump would be below the hoop of properly fitted chains as long as they were kept tight.

If I could fit them, I'd be more comfortable running chains in front than cables. A little loosening with chains would give a very audible but probably harmless warning. With thrown cables, the audible warning could easily coincide with big trouble.

 

[Will_4R]

Fitment is the main issue. Even with stock tire size I would get occasional rubbing in certain situations. I run chains somewhat regularly in the back, and I wish I could run them on all fours but don't. I have tried fitting my chains (S-class diamond link) on the front in the garage to see how they fit, and it was way to close for comfort. I still have the occoasional rub with my current set-up (2.5 in lift and 265/70-17s).

 

[Joshua8200]

Fitment is the main issue. Even with stock tire size I would get occasional rubbing in certain situations. I run chains somewhat regularly in the back, and I wish I could run them on all fours but don't. I have tried fitting my chains (S-class diamond link) on the front in the garage to see how they fit, and it was way to close for comfort. I still have the occoasional rub with my current set-up (2.5 in lift and 265/70-17s).

Many thanks, I really appreciate your information! So you'd get rubbing with S-Class Diamond Chains when they were on the back? Do you know the brand/model? I have been looking at this style of chains also.

 

[Will_4R]

Many thanks, I really appreciate your information! So you'd get rubbing with S-Class Diamond Chains when they were on the back? Do you know the brand/model? I have been looking at this style of chains also.

I have never had any rubbing in back, with or without chains. The rubbing is in front (without chains), and only while braking with the wheels turned, like coming into a corner at speed. Although I wouldn't be driving that way with chains, it is an indication of how little room there is up there. I do find that offroading in winter the wheels get flexed and there is tire spinning in slippery situations, so it isn't always easy to drive slowly and carefully.

My chains are the SSC Whitestar Alloys.

 

[funken]

Anymore thoughts on chains on the front (2004, 265/65/17 stock)? I am looking for the strongest, grippiest chain I can fit without doing damage. I plan on using them off-road only going about 5 mph.