No start issue, possibly starter relay

[giro]

Last night I was driving home from the pizza place, and pulled over and turned off the truck to make a quick call. I think I left the ignition in the ACC position, and probably left it in Drive. I believe everything was working fine to that point. We were parked on a small incline.

I turned the key and nothing happened. I then put it into Park, and tried again. Nothing!

And by nothing, there's also no radio power, no dash lights, no turn signals, no wipers, no power locks, and no power windows. I do hear one little click when I turn the key all the way, from the fusebox area though probably from a relay or just a mechanical portion of the ignition switch sounding like it's down that way.

The dome light works, the headlights and 4-ways work, and the beep and dash light work when I open the door with the key in. I was thinking the ignition switch was a problem, but now that I see it behaves differently when the door is open based on if the key is in or not, the ignition switch must be working. And now that I'm off a busy road, I hear there is a slight noise when holding the key at the ignition point. It's not the starter, but could be the fuel pump pumping.

I've never had problems starting this truck before. It hasn't been a gradual thing, like when I needed to replace the starter on my 92.

Due to all of this, I was really leaning towards a fuse (looked at them all last night and they looked good), or the starter relay. The wiring diagram for an 02 agrees with this http://www.toyota-4runner.org/attac...tch-trouble-wont-turn-off-starting-cicuit.pdf

After reading a bunch of threads last night, I also want to check the connections and wires to make sure there isn't a short or bad connection, and check the ground wire since one thread said the same ground connection is used for the starter, radio, and one or two other things. And it does have an aftermarket alarm that I don't use or have anything for. If much of that is still connected, that could be it.

Any guidance on other possibilities, or where that grounding wire is, would be great. I came across a couple other posts where followup's said "I have the exact same issue" but then listed these symptoms, that are clearly different than a bad starter (even grounding out or shorting shouldn't make the radio have no power when on ACC) or a bad shift sensor. But they never had followups since they were different issues.

Sorry for the longwindedness. Wanted to get all the info down at once. Thanks for any help you can give...

 

[TheDurk]

First suspect would be a dead battery, due to having left the key on. Sensor heaters, fuel pump maintaining pressure, etc. add up to a lot of load. You don't say whether you checked the level of charge. A battery near the end-of-life could even die permanently from that. I'd give it a full charge, and then see what happens. If no joy, load test it.

 

[giro]

First suspect would be a dead battery, due to having left the key on. Sensor heaters, fuel pump maintaining pressure, etc. add up to a lot of load.

I didn't leave it on, and the battery has plenty of charge to fire up the headlights. With power for that, running the radio or dash lights should be cake, but those aren't working at all.

I'll check it, but it really seaming more like a fuse or possibly a relay. I already visually check the fuses, and even switched out a couple. But now that I've been towed home I can pull out a volt meter and double check the main ones.

I don't think any power is getting to the drivers side interior fusebox. That should narrow it down, but I just don't know what fuses or relays are upstream from that fusebox.

 

[giro]

The aftermarket alarm activated while I started testing stuff, so I spent the next hour fully uninstalling it, and hoped that would fix things. It didn't.

The starter relay tests good following the unpowered and powered tests, the leads on the connection for the starter relay get power when the key is in the start position, and I can feel the relay activate when the key is moved to the start position.

The battery tests at 12.3 volts or so.

All of the fuses I have tested so far are good, but basically anything with a fuse on the inside fuse box doesn't work, so it must either be a connection going to that fusebox, or a fuse going to that fusebox. Time to start backtracing after lunch.

 

[giro]

Looking at the wiring diagram, the ALT fuse feeds the AM1 and AM2 fuses, which then feed the ignition switch. The internal fuse box is then downstream of the ignition switch, covering everything that's only powered when the key is in, in some state.

When I went to pull the ALT fuse, it reseated a little. Jumping in and turning the key, the radio turned on, and the truck fired up.

I moved it up the driveway and let it run a bit, though it didn't warm up fully. It seemed to run just slightly rough while sitting there are 1k rpm. I don't remember that before, but it's hard to know for sure.

I'm glad it wasn't anything more complicated. While some say the ignition switch is easy to replace, it's been listed as a one step thing after the simple steps of removing the ignition locking cylinder. I'll have to look at it later just for kicks, but for now things are working, and I have a new list of assorted fuses to nab if I see them at Pick-n-pull. They had several gen-3's a couple months ago in and around the sf bay area, but right now I only see one.

 

[jonwilly2]

I had this problem earlier this month and a couple times before. Check the terminals and the ground. I had to make a new body ground and replace the positive terminal. Taking them off and cleaning the terminals with sandpaper worked 90% of the time the other 10% of the time it was a bad connection. I also had to put a new end on the wight cable coming off the battery going to the fuse box.

 

[giro]

I had this problem earlier this month and a couple times before. Check the terminals and the ground. I had to make a new body ground and replace the positive terminal. Taking them off and cleaning the terminals with sandpaper worked 90% of the time the other 10% of the time it was a bad connection. I also had to put a new end on the wight cable coming off the battery going to the fuse box.

The connections looked fine, but the fuse somehow jiggled lose apparently just enough. I would have expected this maybe after hitting a huge hole or something, or the connection tips oxidizing just a little after it sitting a couple days, but not when I was driving it, stopped for a minute, and then tried restarting.

I did just take it offroading a tiny bit, but I was taking it easy since I had a 400lb snowthrower strapped down in the back and sticking out the back window that I had just bought. But it's more likely that it got a little lose with the previous owner when it hit a deer 9 months ago, that the connection was just good enough to work, and then for whatever reason it lost that connection.

Now I'll keep a spare voltmeter in the truck just in case, and the wiring diagram I printed. But knowing that everything important for starting goes through ALT and then AM1 or AM2 is probably all in info I really need.

 

[rui_geraldes]

Today happened to me the same thing happened to you. Temporarily I turn off my surf and when I try to tur on again, the panel did not have any normal lighting, the radio did not work, the windows do not operate... Apparently all the fuses are ok. Any suggestion or recommendation ? I have on 1994 Surf 1kz
Best regards in advance.

 

[IBallEngineer]

Today happened to me the same thing happened to you. Temporarily I turn off my surf and when I try to tur on again, the panel did not have any normal lighting, the radio did not work, the windows do not operate... Apparently all the fuses are ok. Any suggestion or recommendation ? I have on 1994 Surf 1kz
Best regards in advance.

94 is a 2nd generation, not our specialty here in the 3rd generation section.
:bathbaby:

 

[rui_geraldes]

Found the cause

94 is a 2nd generation, not our specialty here in the 3rd generation section.
:bathbaby:

Thanks for the quick response.
Thankfully today I managed to find the cause.
I decided to double-check the fuses and found the fuse marked as AM1 (40A) burned.
Replaced the fuse, and everything was OK, but when I turn the key to start, the fuse burn immediately.
I searched for a cable that was causing the short circuit, and found that the starter was loose.
Therefore, this fuse has blown due to the start engine be loose.
So the issue is resolved. It was not due to any fault of cables or contacts.
I share my experience because I think it should not be too common find the starter loose.
I wish you all Happy Holidays.

 

[RedSled]

Thanks for the quick response.
Thankfully today I managed to find the cause.
I decided to double-check the fuses and found the fuse marked as AM1 (40A) burned.
Replaced the fuse, and everything was OK, but when I turn the key to start, the fuse burn immediately.
I searched for a cable that was causing the short circuit, and found that the starter was loose.
Therefore, this fuse has blown due to the start engine be loose.
So the issue is resolved. It was not due to any fault of cables or contacts.
I share my experience because I think it should not be too common find the starter loose.
I wish you all Happy Holidays.

Thanks for letting us know what it turned out to be, glad you got it fixed.