Not A Good Start For The 335i

Koz said:
It's time for the full SHOWDOWN, (Gee, I wonder why none of the German cars were invited) time will tell!
Koz
Click to expand...

Geez, Koz...you're so blinded that you don't even pay attention to the intro of the video!!:D LISTEN TO IT AGAIN. R&T wanted to find out who has the best sports sedan from the land of "THE RISING SUN"! Yes, Koz, it's an all Japanese comparo...thus, BMW is not in the test.

But, Koz, remember, you said that you did NOT care too much about straight line performance!!:D So, what's the obsession about 0-60 times nowadays??:p

Question...since you claim to not care about acceleration times, will you care about roadholding g's, braking, slalom times, road feel, etc??

Wow...that is disappointing for the G35...guess i will look at the IS350 vs. GS in the near future.
 
I know this comparo was for Jap cars. I just find it funny that the 335 has not lined up next to the quickest car in that class. Of course I care about acceleration! I just don't care about a couple tenths of a second. The acceleration difference between the 330 and the IS was an eternity that could not be made up by a better driver (on the street). The difference between the 335 and IS will not be worth sweating over (especially by adding the complexity of intercooled TT). I also don't care about stupid shit like how much steering feedback I get driving on the street. My main priority is reliable-luxury-power and good looks/mileage. I will be using this car to retire with (within 5 years).

Koz
 
Koz, you wrote above sarcastically asking why BMW 335i was not in the test you linked above...admit it when you're wrong, Koz.

You make no sense at all...why would 335i line up when the comparo is all Japanese cars...and the whole purpose of the test was all about Japanese cars?? What is so funny about that?? Let me guess, BMW in all it's powerful ways have somehow prohibited Car & Driver, MotorTrend, Road & Track, and just about every car magazines in the world from comparing the "mighty" IS350 vs. BMW 335i????!! Do you actually believe this?!!:confused: You're getting paranoid in your old age, koz!:D

From what you wrote above (reliable-luxury-power, etc), i see a GS450H in your future, not IS350 (which is the lowest in the luxury tree at Lexus, is clearly aimed at young adults in it's styling, and probably the least practical next to SC430). It's not that i care either way...it's just that your arguments are not saying the same thing.

You still have not answered my question above: Will you care about roadholding g's, braking, slalom times, road feel, etc??

Since you're surfing these BMW, Lexus, Audi forums, do you know the sales figures for BMW 3-series vs. IS250/350???
 
Thai said:
Koz, you wrote above sarcastically asking why BMW 335i was not in the test you linked above...admit it when you're wrong, Koz.

You make no sense at all...why would 335i line up when the comparo is all Japanese cars...and the whole purpose of the test was all about Japanese cars?? What is so funny about that?? Let me guess, BMW in all it's powerful ways have somehow prohibited Car & Driver, MotorTrend, Road & Track, and just about every car magazines in the world from comparing the "mighty" IS350 vs. BMW 335i????!! Do you actually believe this?!!:confused: You're getting paranoid in your old age, koz!:D

From what you wrote above (reliable-luxury-power, etc), i see a GS450H in your future, not IS350 (which is the lowest in the luxury tree at Lexus, is clearly aimed at young adults in it's styling, and probably the least practical next to SC430). It's not that i care either way...it's just that your arguments are not saying the same thing.

You still have not answered my question above: Will you care about roadholding g's, braking, slalom times, road feel, etc??

Since you're surfing these BMW, Lexus, Audi forums, do you know the sales figures for BMW 3-series vs. IS250/350???
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God Thai, You need to take things a little less literally/seriously! You seem to want to pick apart anyone who disagrees with your opinion. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong; I've done it on this forum several times. I know very well that BMWs are a dime a dozen and every person that wants to make every one around them aware of their status, sees it as a symbol and is very narrow minded about other vehicles. Especially a vehicle that can out perform the almighty BMW (I know you cringing at that thought). I also know that the IS has increased its sales in 06 by 330% and that BMW knows Lexus has entered their world and they are/should be concerned. Just as Ford is very concerned about their bread and butter (F150).

I like the way you use my comments about certain things you can throw digs in. Like not being concerned about steering feedback and twisting it into not being concerned about roadholding g's, braking, slalom times, road feel. Is that really the way you intrepid my comments? Also the comment about getting paranoid in my old age. Sorry to disappoint you but I just turned 50 and by no means am I paranoid about anything. Do you think that BMW is not concerned about Lexus entering the high end performance sports car segment? I know it's very hard for the BMW enthusiast to except the fact that any other company could possibly design a better car. Let me enlighten you, it already happened. It's just going to take a little time for you to except it! I do understand how hard it is for anyone, who has been on top, to except not being the best. Just think of it like a World Champion boxer that has past his prime and the younger, stronger, fighter is going to kick his a$$. It's only a matter of when!

Koz
 
It amazes me everytime, Koz...you never seem to see the whole picture. Do you see a BMW in my garage?? Didn't i dump my old M3 for a box-on-wheels?? You will never catch me driving a BMW again. Is that clear enough for you??

What I am Koz is an unbias observer of cars. I don't favor one brand over another just because of brand loyalty. That IS being narrow minded.

Narrow minded?? No, Koz, i beg to differ.:D

I love your comment about IS350 increasing sales 300% over 2005! That is clearly the biggest load of crap you could post. You know it...are you trying to trick me with that sales figures, Koz???!!!:D Come on, Koz, give me some credit...you're not gonna win an argument by giving bogus stats. The previous IS in 2005 was a very slow selling model (piss poor in fact) because of it's age and relatively outdated performance. The previous BMW 3-series killed it. Therefore, i certainly hope that the IS350 sales would be much better in 2006 with the new model!!:D That is such a bogus statement to make...and shows that YOU are truly blind to Toyota/lexus brand.

So, you do care about roadholding g's, braking, slalom times, right?? If so, then why did you pick the IS over BMW 335i??:p Because, according to FACTS, the 335i and IS are more or less equal in acceleration, BUT 335i is clearly superior in everything else. You stated reliability...that i agree with. But, that is NOT a performance figure. And quite frankly, Lexus IS350 is NOT a class leader based on performance because it is NOT the best in it's class for all-around performance based on above criteria.

IS350 is a Lexus through and through...good straight line performance match with good reliability. That's it. I am a big fan of this...therefore, i like IS350, but i certainly would not claim that it's a champion in it's class due to it's legs.

BTW, the IS350 is NOT a "high end performance sports car" by any shot of the imagination.:p It is an entry level performance sedan as is the BMW 3-series, except M3 (which is a sports GT).
 
Thai said:
It amazes me everytime, Koz...you never seem to see the whole picture. Do you see a BMW in my garage?? Didn't i dump my old M3 for a box-on-wheels?? You will never catch me driving a BMW again. Is that clear enough for you??

What I am Koz is an unbias observer of cars. I don't favor one brand over another just because of brand loyalty. That IS being narrow minded.

Narrow minded?? No, Koz, i beg to differ.:D

I love your comment about IS350 increasing sales 300% over 2005! That is clearly the biggest load of crap you could post. You know it...are you trying to trick me with that sales figures, Koz???!!!:D Come on, Koz, give me some credit...you're not gonna win an argument by giving bogus stats. The previous IS in 2005 was a very slow selling model (piss poor in fact) because of it's age and relatively outdated performance. The previous BMW 3-series killed it. Therefore, i certainly hope that the IS350 sales would be much better in 2006 with the new model!!:D That is such a bogus statement to make...and shows that YOU are truly blind to Toyota/lexus brand.

So, you do care about roadholding g's, braking, slalom times, right?? If so, then why did you pick the IS over BMW 335i??:p Because, according to FACTS, the 335i and IS are more or less equal in acceleration, BUT 335i is clearly superior in everything else. You stated reliability...that i agree with. But, that is NOT a performance figure. And quite frankly, Lexus IS350 is NOT a class leader based on performance because it is NOT the best in it's class for all-around performance based on above criteria.

IS350 is a Lexus through and through...good straight line performance match with good reliability. That's it. I am a big fan of this...therefore, i like IS350, but i certainly would not claim that it's a champion in it's class due to it's legs.

BTW, the IS350 is NOT a "high end performance sports car" by any shot of the imagination.:p It is an entry level performance sedan as is the BMW 3-series, except M3 (which is a sports GT).
Click to expand...

The fact is, the IS did increase sales by over 300% and sold more cars then even Lexus projected. But it was not only because of poor sales of the 05 model. You can't give Lexus any credit for redesigning the IS into a class leading vehicle (sorry the 330i was not a better vehicle and I
 
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The Lexus IS350 is a great car from Lexus...no doubt, Koz. I like it a lot. It's just that it is not right in my eyes & mind to hear you proclaim Lexus IS350 superiority as a "class leader in performance" and "high end performance sports car." I am happy (honestly) that you got one, but let's keep the enthusiasm in check. it's like someone buying a Range Rover and proclaiming that it's the best off-roader on the planet!:D

The sales figures are based on comparing Lexus IS350 sales in 2006 vs. Lexus IS300 sales in 2005. Lexus could sale 100000% better yet still lose to BMW in sales, right?? You are bending statistics in hope of tricking me. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS ARGUMENT because we're comparing IS350 vs. BMW 3-series. Do you have the sales figure between IS250/350 and BMW 3-series??? This is the ONLY relevant info in this comparo.

I never said that the IS350 is a poor handling car...i just said that it is relatively poor handling next to the BMW 3-series. Same goes for it's braking & slalom times.

As for VDIM, it's still up in the air. Did the authors have to disarm DSC in the BMW to do the slalom??

I don't remember hearing that the '07 IS350 in the VIDEO YOU LINKED ABOVE beat the G35 in slalom??????????????? Can you give me source to your information???

And where did the TL beat BMW 3-series in slalom?? Source? Wow, if so, then i need to look at TL also!:)

What performance features in the IS350 that is better than BMW 3-series????

Do you know where steering feel comes in handy...how about the track?? Well, you know that already. How about when you're driving fast down a twisty mountain road?? Knowing what your front tires are doing is very important information. BMW has been criticized for this lack of steering feel also for it's use of "Active Steering"...thus, most like it better without this option. Lexus has gone to electric steering and has suffer the same fate. I still don't understand why people mess with something that was not broken to begin with. The previous IS300 was great at this...i know because my cousin has one...drives GREAT!

How can i claim 335i better in performance than IS350?? Easy...the BMW 330i beat the IS350 in slalom, braking, & feedback. The 335i is the same as 330i except for stronger engine. In fact, i heard that the 335i is even more sporty than 330i...so, i expect it to be even better with the performance figures. Why is that hard to understand??:confused:
 
Koz said:
Thai,

I will respond to your post later, but check this out!

http://www.autospies.com/news/Lexus-IS350-faster-than-Audi-S4-11087/

Koz
Click to expand...

Isn't this about the same freaking test you linked to above??!!

Again, what does this have to do with anything??? Ok...do you think that 335i cannot beat S4?? I don't understand. Your posting of information is so incoherent and really really bias, Koz. Stick to topic at hand!!

BTW, S4 is old and was slow to begin with...hell, even the M3 was faster than it in WET weather!:D Now, if the IS350 can beat the RS4, then i will listen.:)

Also, instead of linking useless information, you should READ the links you post...a lot of informative people posting on the link above.:)
 
Koz...do you know why you have not seen any direct comparo between 335i and IS?? It is because 335i is a COUPE, while IS is a sedan. Therefore, you will not likely see any comparo between the two until the 335 sedan comes out.
 
I have read a few reports of 335i engine shutting down after prolong track time.:( This is why i have never been a big fan of turbos/superchargers. But, i guess that if you're not into track racing, then it's a pretty good engine...plenty powerful from specs and 1/4 mile times.

Here is the link to the actual award: http://www.ukintpress.com/engineoftheyear/categories04.html

For what it's worth, i would rather take Lexus IS350's engine over a turbo engine anyday of the week.
 
Koz, in case that you have not seen it, here is Road & Track's test result on your link above: http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/download/02073car.pdf

IS350 numbers:
0-60 = 4.9
0-100 = 12.7
0-120 = 19.8
1/4 mile = 13.5 at 103.1 mph
Slalom = 66.7 mph
Lateral accel = 0.84g
60-0 braking = 126

This is what you have been waiting for, right?? This is the test of the 2007 IS350 with defeatable VDIM. This is what your whole argument is based on, right??

Sorry, the numbers above are GOOD, but not exceptional and certainly, NOT class-leading.

And here R&T's test of the 335i sedan: http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/download/0307_R_BMW_335i.pdf

BMW 335i sedan:
0-60 = 5.0
0-100 = 12.3
0-120 = 18.6
1/4 mile = 13.5 at 104.5 mph
Slalom = 68.7 mph
Later accel = 0.90g
Braking = 119

Full review of 335i: http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=4638

The 335i sedan edges out the IS350 on almost all counts (1/4 mile, trap speed, braking, slalom, lateral acceleration, etc.). IS350 edges out 335i from 0-60, but loses from 0-100. Hell, the BMW was even significantly quieter than IS!!

I will give to you that the IS350 may still be slightly quicker in acceleration because the BMW was equipped with manual transmission, not automatic. Of course, the argument could be made that the best of both models do battle and thus, this comparison is perfectly fair. But, with the other aspects of performance, the BMW is clearly the winner.

Reliability favors the Lexus and thus, i would still pick IS350 over BMW. But, it is clear that, for pure performance, the BMW is better...IS350 is close, but NOT class-leading.
 
Koz, Edmunds just did the comparo...and, as i told you all along, the BMW 335i beat IS350 in acceleration and handling. Slalom speed favors BMW, as expected. Please note that this comparo is automatic vs. automatic and proves that BMW did indeed under-rated the specs on the new twin-turbo engine.

Here is the link: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/d...Id=120903?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..3.*

Any more doubt in your mind??

P.S.: what is surprising is that Lexus vehicles are now no longer bargains in their class...something that certainly attract the bargain-minded consumers.
 
The little differences between all the cars, in this class, don't mean anything on the street.

P.S. I had fun last Friday spanking a 750i on my way home from work. It was so funny reading his mind; "How does a little Lexus run so good?" He was so upset he started getting really crazy trying to get past me. I had to cut him loose and let him go.

Koz
 
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