Not Another Annoying Tire Thread!

[MikeinCincy]

From what people on here have said, BFG at that size above (265/70/17) will rub on extreme steering or something like that.

I never had Destination A/Ts...therefore, i cannot comment. However, Firestone is making a lot of effort to erase it's dark history (e.g. Explorer incident)...so, i assume that they are making quality products. This is why i got the Destination M/Ts...so far, i am happy with them. But, there is not enough history with the Destination tires for anyone to come to a conclusion about it's durability/reliability yet.

I'm sorry. I missread your post where you mentioned that you run M/Ts. I think I am going to go with the Revos. The Scorpions have me spooked because of the alleged flat-spotting issue (it gets pretty cold where I love during the winter). The Destination A/Ts seem like a pretty good tire, but as you stated, there isn't enough history. I don't know too much about the Yokohamas. That basically leaves me with the Michelin LTX A/T2. I will do some reasearch on this tire.

 

[tomhaney1]

I would agree with what Thai said earlier. Try a set of one and if they are not what you are wanting take them back.

 

[Thai]

In any case, this is a good forum.......and I note that you are a mod of the forum.That fact combined with the way you conduct yourself this way (labeling other's viewpoints as without merit and less than your own) despite what you say about every one has a right to an opinion is called dirty pool in my book. At least attempt to be a touch more genuine. Since you are a Mod you might want to try acting like one.

Well, i am not only a moderator, but i am also the originator of this 4runner forum. But that's another topic.

It is pretty clear that your feelings are hurt by my comments regarding your recent purchase and TireRack's consumer surveys. You have the right to state your opinion...and i have mine. What is hard to understand here?? If you feel hurt by it (aka being a freaking "daisy"), then don't freaking read my posts. Others can judge for themselves. As noted above, i am NOT the only that shares my opinion.

I am very genuine...this is why i equally criticize what i own and what i think of things i owned in the past. I don't play favors nor do i like to justify what i own(ed). I believe that I am very much like what i want this forum to be. Thus, before calling me out, i would check to see if you're on the right forum. Any further questions about how this forum is run...please PM me. If you do not, then i will delete your b!tching. I am not sure if i can make this any clearer.

Thanks for your cooperation.

 

[MikeinCincy]

I would agree with what Thai said earlier. Try a set of one and if they are not what you are wanting take them back.

Yea, I'll deifnitely do that. I just hope the set that I get first is the set I want to stay with. As of now, it's looking like I am going to go with the Revos, unless someone can convince me of otherwise. There aren't too many choices of A/T tires in the stock 265/65/17 size to choose from. I have basically narrowed it down to the Revos and the Michelins. I am probably going to stay away from the Pirelis, although they are ranked #1 on Tirerack, because of the alleged flat-spotting issues.

 

[Thai]

Yea, I'll deifnitely do that. I just hope the set that I get first is the set I want to stay with. As of now, it's looking like I am going to go with the Revos, unless someone can convince me of otherwise. There aren't too many choices of A/T tires in the stock 265/65/17 size to choose from. I have basically narrowed it down to the Revos and the Michelins. I am probably going to stay away from the Pirelis, although they are ranked #1 on Tirerack, because of the alleged flat-spotting issues.

I think that you can't go wrong with either tire (Mich vs. REVO). They are both excellent tires. I doubt that you will even tell the difference between the two if someone blindfolded you.

 

[MikeinCincy]

In my opinion, this whole argument about the credibility of the reviews and rankings on Tirerack isdoesn't make much sense to me. The way I look at it, usually ordinary people only go out of their way to post comments about a product when they are not satisfied with it. Therefore , if a product is getting many great reviews, then it only makes sense to assume that it is a pretty decent product. I think the whole ranking system on Tirerack is fairly legit considering it's all calculated by the CUSTOMER'S experience with the tire and not some magazine or company. Sure, there are going to be a handful of people that don't know what they are talking about, but when we're talking about thousands of reviews and rankings, the numbers really do tell the story about the quality of the product. Just my $0.02. I can really see both sides of the coin here. Overall, I have found the reviews in this forum to be very helpful in the tire-purchasing decision.

 

[MikeinCincy]

I think that you can't go wrong with either tire (Mich vs. REVO). They are both excellent tires. I doubt that you will even tell the difference between the two if someone blindfolded you.

I'm sure you're right. I was quoted at my local tire place at $203/tire for the Revos. This includes mounting, balancing, allignment, lifetime balancing and rotation, yadda yadda. I will call them back and get a price for the Michelins.

 

[Climb14er]

This definitely applies to me. Being in college and working full time year-round, I would find it hard to go off-roading. However, I do plan to do so occasionally possibly this summer. So, I guess I can narrow my choices down to an A/T tier that doesn't have too aggressive of a tread design and is relatively smooth on paved roads.

This is exactly the point I was making a few days ago when I said that the people who buy AT tires drive 99% of the time or more on paved or hwy roads.

If it's the strong/rugged look of the tire you want, sure, the AT will fit your bill.

Especially the BFG ATKO which are a fave among the Colorado mountain residents.

But for a tire in Cincy when most there think off road is off pavement.


Like I said, it's your money, your comfort and your driving experience that will count.

I don't post much to the tire threads other than when I was going to buy a set for myself, which I just did. But these tire threads for folks who are looking for an AT tire when they're like the many SUV drives who want 4 x 4 but who never venture off pavement, it's their money. :

 

[Thai]

Therefore , if a product is getting many great reviews, then it only makes sense to assume that it is a pretty decent product. I think the whole ranking system on Tirerack is fairly legit considering it's all calculated by the CUSTOMER'S experience with the tire and not some magazine or company.

The problem with TR's survey is that the point system is not clearly defined and consumers don't always follow the rating system...nor do they judge a tire fairly. Do you really believe that REVOs are 3rd or 4th place?? Is it really behind the P. Scorpions or the Firestones?? Do you think that BFG AT KO should be all the way low?? Everyone has different needs...for many on here, BFG is the best AT tire for their need(s), either for looks or off-roading. Any new product will be rated highly on the TR survey. Just ask Koz, a year or two ago, REVO was #1. Then Firestones and P. Scorpions came out...and within a few months, REVO was relegated to 3rd place. Why? Because it's new and people buy new stuff, are WOW by it, and trash the old tire they had. They often forget that their old tire has 50,000-75,000 miles on it. Hardly anyone remembers how their tire performed when new. So, right there, you have a major bias in the survey. I would bet that when Michelin LTX AT-2 gets enough reviews, it would be top 3. Human bias.

Is the TR survey useless?? No, it is not. I use it too. I even sometimes post reviews on it. I actually avoid the "all good...best tire i ever had" reviews. I concentrate more on few well-written reviews that have criticisms in it. Unfortuntely, this is far in between. I also go to Discounttire.com and read similar Consumer surveys...again, taking these reviews with a grain of salt. Should you base your whole purchase on TR (or Discount) consumer reviews?? No.

BTW, my Firestone M/T is #1 on TireRack in the M/T category, but you will not catch me advertising this when i talk about my tire. Do i think that it's #1?? No. When you get to the top tires, it's hard to make a distinction because no tire is perfect.

Note...the above comments do NOT apply to actual TireRack's comparisons by the editors. Those are excellent IMHO.

 

[alaskaman]

The bigger question is...do YOU think that i am being fair in my assessment of a product??

I would have to read more of your reviews to be able to answer that question. Many of your posts are previously published reports or are available on line in other media. Fairness? I think that if you have to ask you already know the answer.

Shall we disagree about Tire Rack and call it "fair" and get on with things?

 

[Thai]

Shall we disagree about Tire Rack and call it "fair" and get on with things?

Sure, this all got started because you were offended with my view of TireRack's consumer reviews. You have an opinion about it...and i have mine. Fair enough.

 

[alaskaman]

Excellent. Glad to see that fair play sportsmanship about disagreements does not have to be personal. Have fun in your G.

 

[jacal]

My issue with 'consumer' tire reviews (mine included):

How do you control the variables? In my opinion, to really test a tire you need the same vehicle, the same conditions, the same everything. Then you need to change out the tires.

...and tires themselves wear. Often performance changes with wear. Therefore, as I come off my last set of rubber, even if I buy the same tire I would probably be quite pleased! Then off I go to write a review. This issue is even worse if you come from a bad tire to a great new tire.



J

 

[RonMAIDEN]

You are correct with variables but I feel my direct comparison between my '99 Runner vs my friend's '00 shod with different but same size tires still gives a realistic impression of what the tires will do.

I did this last year with both of us having only a 3000 miles diffrence on my Nittos vs his BFGs.

 

[Thai]

I did this last year with both of us having only a 3000 miles diffrence on my Nittos vs his BFGs.

I did the comparison on the SAME vehicle...BFG vs. Nittos.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

And the results?


I'd still love to see a magazine test these two tires with real numbers on dry and wet pavement and maybe do a sidewall puncture test with some off road tests too of course.

 

[Thai]

And the results?

On my G500:

Yokohama (OEM) --> Nitto TG --> Yokohama (OEM) --> BFG AT KO --> Firestone Destination M/T

I thought that the Nittos had a bothersome highway hum...more noticeable than BFG AT KO, worst than Yokohama, but better than my Firestone M/Ts. In addition, my P-rated Nittos had a relatively thin sidewall, even when compared with my OEM Yokohama high-performance tire! I thought the BFG AT KO was pretty quiet despite it's aggressive thread. The ride is stiffer/rougher than stock for sure due to it's HD construction. The Nittos ride was pretty good (better than BFG AT KO), almost on par with the Yokohama. As for rain traction, i never left wanting for more with the BFG...but then again, i drive like a grandma in my G-wagen.

 

[jacal]

On my G500:

Yokohama (OEM) --> Nitto TG --> Yokohama (OEM) --> BFG AT KO --> Firestone Destination M/T

I thought that the Nittos had a bothersome highway hum...more noticeable than BFG AT KO, worst than Yokohama, but better than my Firestone M/Ts. In addition, my P-rated Nittos had a relatively thin sidewall, even when compared with my OEM Yokohama high-performance tire! I thought the BFG AT KO was pretty quiet despite it's aggressive thread. The ride is stiffer/rougher than stock for sure due to it's HD construction. The Nittos ride was pretty good (better than BFG AT KO), almost on par with the Yokohama. As for rain traction, i never left wanting for more with the BFG...but then again, i drive like a grandma in my G-wagen.

Thai - I always shyed away from the BFG AT KO because of what "I'd heard" about rain and ice performance. However, with cautious driving, and vsc etc. is rain really an issue? It sounds to me like you found them satisfactory.

This is another point on reviewers...I feel like many of the posters here provide decent information. I would "trust" the likes of RonMaiden, Thai, and many others here. There is no way I can glean that type of info from 30K people posting a "review" on a site that also sells the product.

Again, allot of it has to do with the product type. I'm completely different when it comes to a dvd player review or similar.




J

 

[Ryan32]

Thai - I always shyed away from the BFG AT KO because of what "I'd heard" about rain and ice performance. However, with cautious driving, and vsc etc. is rain really an issue? It sounds to me like you found them satisfactory.

This is another point on reviewers...I feel like many of the posters here provide decent information. I would "trust" the likes of RonMaiden, Thai, and many others here. There is no way I can glean that type of info from 30K people posting a "review" on a site that also sells the product.

Again, allot of it has to do with the product type. I'm completely different when it comes to a dvd player review or similar.




J

I'd also like to hear some experiences on rain/ice with the BFG's.... I'm about to order mine!

 

[CJ3Flyr]

The problem with TR's survey is that the point system is not clearly defined and consumers don't always follow the rating system...nor do they judge a tire fairly. Do you really believe that REVOs are 3rd or 4th place?? Is it really behind the P. Scorpions or the Firestones?? Do you think that BFG AT KO should be all the way low?? Everyone has different needs...for many on here, BFG is the best AT tire for their need(s), either for looks or off-roading. Any new product will be rated highly on the TR survey. Just ask Koz, a year or two ago, REVO was #1. Then Firestones and P. Scorpions came out...and within a few months, REVO was relegated to 3rd place. Why? Because it's new and people buy new stuff, are WOW by it, and trash the old tire they had. They often forget that their old tire has 50,000-75,000 miles on it. Hardly anyone remembers how their tire performed when new. So, right there, you have a major bias in the survey. I would bet that when Michelin LTX AT-2 gets enough reviews, it would be top 3. Human bias.

Is the TR survey useless?? No, it is not. I use it too. I even sometimes post reviews on it. I actually avoid the "all good...best tire i ever had" reviews. I concentrate more on few well-written reviews that have criticisms in it. Unfortuntely, this is far in between. I also go to Discounttire.com and read similar Consumer surveys...again, taking these reviews with a grain of salt. Should you base your whole purchase on TR (or Discount) consumer reviews?? No.

BTW, my Firestone M/T is #1 on TireRack in the M/T category, but you will not catch me advertising this when i talk about my tire. Do i think that it's #1?? No. When you get to the top tires, it's hard to make a distinction because no tire is perfect.

Note...the above comments do NOT apply to actual TireRack's comparisons by the editors. Those are excellent IMHO.

I agree. With a grain or three of salt the reviews are helpful. What I have seen, several times, is that the reviewers not only fail to adhere to rating guidelines they're just hammerheads. If you study some reviews they confuse tire models and review tires the wrong tire. The other thing I've seen is they do a 50k review and say something like "I just got _______ and they are ________". Thier car has has 50K on it not the tires:bash:. Another favorite is "these were the stock tires". No they weren't! I saw a lot of that in the GY SA reviews. They had some GY Fortera equipped vehicle and didn't review the exact tire they onwned.

So in addition to Thai and others point about the subjectivety and the 'human factor' skewing the results there's a GIGO factor. I say read the reviews but have the condiment dispenser near by...

:cheers: