Now with noise! Any idea what would cause this? (timing tensioner pulley)
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Are you THE Tim who has all the awesome YouTube videos? Gotta say thanks for all you've contributed to the community!
I have a few ideas but I don't want to taint the problem-solving process.
The pulley bearing is loose from side to side. Here's a video: YouTube - you can see the play towards the middle/end of the clip . The thing is, I ordered a new genuine tensioner pulley from a Toyota dealer, and it also has play - although not as much as the bearing in the photo. How much play is acceptable in a new bearing? The top idler (between the camshaft sprockets) has zero play in my fingers, for example. It was also completely clean aside from one small speck of rubber.
It does look like that, but that fresh wet area was actually caused by a leaking hood scoop. It rained and dripped onto the block after I tore into the engine. No gunk or contamination anywhere near vital parts. The belt looks good as new but as Tim said it's obviously been transferring some rubber onto the pulley.
mtbtim
Elite Member
Yes, I'm Timmy the Toolman. Thanks for being a fan and you're welcome.
Maybe the rubber transfer is from the belt shimmying on the pulley from the bearing movement. But, why would the belt move a bunch unless something is instigating the belt to move in and out? I've experienced one 3.4 liter engine that had gross in and out crankshaft play due to the thrust washers giving way. If the crankshaft was able to move in and out, that would also drag the timing belt with it in and out causing the dragging on the lower idler pulley.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/9Gpdq-tL79U" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Dieselchessy
New member
Why is the timing belt off and you inspecting the pulley at 12k of use?
Did you replace the tensioner 12k in the past?
Is the bearing smooth when rotated?
Did you replace the tensioner 12k in the past?
Is the bearing smooth when rotated?
I'd rather not say just yet as I do not want to introduce bias. I am going to check the crank per Tim's advice first. The vehicle has no rough idle or rough running and no misfires/codes.
Yes, everything was replaced with parts from the Amazon "OEM" timing kit. Timing belt, idler pulley, tensioner pulley, tensioner, water pump, etc. All done correctly and had no issues for 12,000 miles. No loose bolts, missing washers, etc.
Yes, it just has the side-to-side play as seen in the video.
Here are two more photos. Not sure if that mark was on the back of the pulley when I originally installed it.
Attachments
Dieselchessy
New member
I don’t understand the cat and mouse withholding info bit.
mtbtim
Elite Member
I understand what he's doing. He doesn't want to get people tunneled in on one possibility because maybe there's something he hasn't considered yet that he can learn from us, The Peanut Gallery.
Exactly, couldn't have worded it better myself. Thanks for understanding, Tim. Not trying to play games or anything. It seems this approach already might be bearing rotten fruit, lol.
I came across one of your videos a few weeks ago that showed the crankshaft move forward upon startup. I checked this on mine and the crank didn't move at all. But... I did push and pull on the crankshaft today and found this:
YouTube
YouTube
What do you guys think?
mtbtim
Elite Member
Uh oh. I think one of your thrust washers may be on it's way out. That play is not normal. That little bit of movement in the crankshaft is causing the belt to move a tiny bit in and out causing the belt to rub on the pulley.
mtbtim
Elite Member
What we saw in that video looked like at least a 1 mm of play. I'd say it's out of spec but maybe my eyes are deceiving me.
Not disagreeing with you that it didn't look in spec.
I usually talk to a machine shop owner that was also a friend of mines. From our after hours talks at his shop I learned that some of our eyes are good but, not a calibrated tool.
mtbtim
Elite Member
I can't argue with that.
By my eye too it seems like it has more play than the specs allow, but I'm going to see if I can find my dial indicator and take some measurements. If I had to guess I'd say that's at least .5mm of play? We'll see...
You want to know why it's out of spec and going to need a new engine? Because not only did I do the timing job 12k miles ago, but this happened a week after I did the valve cover gaskets. That's why I don't gamble in Vegas. :embarassed:
Forgot to mention that the truck has 175k on it and it doesn't look like this engine has ever been worked on, aside from a green coolant change and parts store drivebelt replacements.
Now my question is, what kind of signs/symptoms could this produce during startup/operation?
You want to know why it's out of spec and going to need a new engine? Because not only did I do the timing job 12k miles ago, but this happened a week after I did the valve cover gaskets. That's why I don't gamble in Vegas. :embarassed:
Forgot to mention that the truck has 175k on it and it doesn't look like this engine has ever been worked on, aside from a green coolant change and parts store drivebelt replacements.
Now my question is, what kind of signs/symptoms could this produce during startup/operation?
Okay, well this seems odd. I haven't touched anything since I made the crank play video we all saw. In that video, I was pushing/pulling the crank pulley, which is bolted down tight. I went out today and did the same thing, and I swear it is not moving as much today. Temperature is roughly the same, so what gives?
I found my dial indicator and put it on. If I did this right, it seems that the crank thrust is within spec? I measured .004". Thanks for giving me the specs, HiLife. In this video, I pried the crankshaft between the counterweights and the block to get maximum leverage/play.
Hmm....now what?
YouTube
I found my dial indicator and put it on. If I did this right, it seems that the crank thrust is within spec? I measured .004". Thanks for giving me the specs, HiLife. In this video, I pried the crankshaft between the counterweights and the block to get maximum leverage/play.
Hmm....now what?
YouTube
VIDEO: YouTube
Ok, so to finally answer DieselChessy's question, here's why I tore into the engine. After reading it you'll see why I didn't want to lead people down 100 different paths from cracked flexplates to rod knock to bad AC bearings to improperly adjusted drive belts lol.
One day when I was pulling into my driveway, I heard the noise you'll hear in the video below. Now in this video, you'll see that it starts out in drive/reverse (doesn't matter), and then I shift into Park/Neutral (no noise at all), then back to drive. You can hear that after I shifted into drive the second time, the noise did not present itself much at all until I gave it some gas and then let off.
With a stethescope on the engine, it can be hear the loudest at the very front of the engine, on either bank, where the head meets the block. No noise is heard at the transmission/rear of the engine.
The thing is, I came across a video on YouTube of a guy with a 5VZ Tacoma who has this exact same noise behaving exactly the same way. He claims that it was solved by replacing the AC bearing and tensioner. I replaced those parts, but the noise did not go away nor change in any way. The weird thing is that the noise did seem to go away when EITHER the PS pump OR the AC compressor or both were disconnected.
Ok, so to finally answer DieselChessy's question, here's why I tore into the engine. After reading it you'll see why I didn't want to lead people down 100 different paths from cracked flexplates to rod knock to bad AC bearings to improperly adjusted drive belts lol.
One day when I was pulling into my driveway, I heard the noise you'll hear in the video below. Now in this video, you'll see that it starts out in drive/reverse (doesn't matter), and then I shift into Park/Neutral (no noise at all), then back to drive. You can hear that after I shifted into drive the second time, the noise did not present itself much at all until I gave it some gas and then let off.
With a stethescope on the engine, it can be hear the loudest at the very front of the engine, on either bank, where the head meets the block. No noise is heard at the transmission/rear of the engine.
The thing is, I came across a video on YouTube of a guy with a 5VZ Tacoma who has this exact same noise behaving exactly the same way. He claims that it was solved by replacing the AC bearing and tensioner. I replaced those parts, but the noise did not go away nor change in any way. The weird thing is that the noise did seem to go away when EITHER the PS pump OR the AC compressor or both were disconnected.
