O2 Simulator Options?

[Jakeepoo3]

When you say 'diy tune' I imagine some guy in a street race-esque early 90's Civic with a laptop going 200 down the interstate haha. What exactly does it look like to diy tune a 4runner? I'm almost certain I don't have the expertise or knowledge to pull something like that off.

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Pretty much like you imagined. You need a driver to run through all the gears and do 0-60's and all that type stuff while you're watching live data from all the sensors related to the engines timing and a/f ratio. MAF, outside air temp, IAC, throttle position, up and downstream 02s, etc. They all talk to each other to determine how much fuel to inject and when to spark it most efficiently. The factory ECU has set value parameters for these sensors. You basically need to relearn your ECU manually because you're operating outside the parameters of what the ECU expects from certain sensors. You need to research it if you want to diy. You could write a book on this subject. If not take it to a good reputable Dyno tune shop. Shop is expensive and only does it once. DIY you can keep adding aftermarket goodies and can fine tune yourself in real driving conditions that affect the fluid physics of air like temperature, mass, and density I reckon. I recommend wideband a/f sensors instead of dummies before tuning with headers especially if you take it to a shop. There's not really any sense in doing any upgrades like that until your ECU allows the upgrade to do what is designed to do. I want to here the difference in your idle!!

 

[KrazedJD]

I am in the same boat, I have had my headers since June 2021. I have the spacers on both up and down stream O2 and still get 0420/0430 within 10 min of normal driving. Additionally I have seen the worst gas mileage ever since my truck is running in closed loop (Averaging 13 MPG). With price of gas going up I want to resolve this issue and will be trying a few things recommended and keep you all posted, once it get a little warmer outside.

1st try the steel wool trick
2nd the capacitor and resistor trick

Ok I do not have part numbers for the Extenders I had purchased from Burtman, but the steel wool trick and defoulers from auto store worked.

I went to AutoZone and bought a bag of pure steel wool and 18 mm Spark Plug Non Foulers (Dorman 42009). Cut maybe inch of steel wool and lightly packed it in the 18mm then screwed in the larger extenders I bought from Burtman. NO DRILLING and only on the Downstream Sensor not upstream. Drove a total of 200 miles with 5 stops here and there. CEL never came back on.

 

[Jakeepoo3]

Ok I do not have part numbers for the Extenders I had purchased from Burtman, but the steel wool trick and defoulers from auto store worked.

I went to AutoZone and bought a bag of pure steel wool and 18 mm Spark Plug Non Foulers (Dorman 42009). Cut maybe inch of steel wool and lightly packed it in the 18mm then screwed in the larger extenders I bought from Burtman. NO DRILLING and only on the Downstream Sensor not upstream. Drove a total of 200 miles with 5 stops here and there. CEL never came back on.

Never heard that trick hard to believe that would work. Before you get your tune you need to install wideband a/f sensors. You can't tune it well without that information.

 

[aemravan]

Ok I do not have part numbers for the Extenders I had purchased from Burtman, but the steel wool trick and defoulers from auto store worked.

I went to AutoZone and bought a bag of pure steel wool and 18 mm Spark Plug Non Foulers (Dorman 42009). Cut maybe inch of steel wool and lightly packed it in the 18mm then screwed in the larger extenders I bought from Burtman. NO DRILLING and only on the Downstream Sensor not upstream. Drove a total of 200 miles with 5 stops here and there. CEL never came back on.

So the dorman 42009 non fouler allows you to screw the 02 sensor directly into it without having to drill it out? I'm using a non-fouler route as well, but the ones I found at autozone seem longer and also required me to drill out the inner diameter to allow for the 02 sensor head to fit through..

 

[aemravan]

Yup, fully understand. Just a little disappointing that a supposedly up and up business would blame government for holding them to uphold the law. Sounds like a bit of a cop out to me. Basically, they were selling an illegal product.

I mean if we want to go down that rabbit hole then the vast majority of anything aftermarket you buy is technically illegal in quite a few states..hence the reason a lot of performance stuff is marketed as "off road use only".

The "illegal" product they were selling is only illegal in application to street use, not in design.

With regards to the emissions testing, I don't know about where you are, but for me in NC my 2003 v8 won't even be inspected after next year once it hits 20 years old. If we want to talk environmental-consciousness, then we are probably in the wrong rigs to begin with However, I would argue that it is much better to have a handful or rigs running around with no cats and 02 emulators to keep the engine from running in closed-loop mode dumping fuel then not having them available, still running with no cats, but spewing fuel out of the exhaust pipe lol.

 

[aemravan]

Here are a couple of things I found that I needed to consider while correcting for a P0420 code on my rig (suspected bad cat).

I went the non-fouler route after finding out that the URD option was no longer available. Maybe the 2003 v8 sensor is different than later years, but the non-fouler that I got was long and had to be drilled out on the inner diameter to allow the O2 sensor head to go through. I then screwed this combo into the second non fouler, really spacing the sensor far back. I installed it and cleared the codes and off I went. No codes for the first 50-70 miles, I was stoked. And then after a longer highway drive the code came back up.

After doing some monitoring and logging what I found was that I choked out the flow to the O2 TOO much. You can't just simply take it out and expect everything to be good. The ECU monitors the voltage on the upstream and compares it to the downstream sensor. In my case, what was happening was that at steady/Lower RPM there was no enough exhaust gas to provide the necessary voltage reading, so the ECU ultimately decided that the 02 sensor was bad.

What I had to do was vary the length of the non-fouler so that I only pulled the 02 sensor out of the exhaust stream just a bit. After doing that I have been running with no CEL light/codes whatsoever, and its been probably a couple of thousand miles and different driving conditions/temperatures, so I feel pretty solid on my fix.

What this means is that the non-fouler route does work, but needs to be adjusted for the specific setup. Since I still have a cat that just seems to be not QUITE up to original standard in filter the exhaust gases I only need to pull it back a little to make it work. Without a cat in place at all I imagine you would have to adjust it back even more, but not too far back to the point where it isn't picking up flow at lower RPM.

 

[KrazedJD]

So the dorman 42009 non fouler allows you to screw the 02 sensor directly into it without having to drill it out? I'm using a non-fouler route as well, but the ones I found at autozone seem longer and also required me to drill out the inner diameter to allow for the 02 sensor head to fit through..

In this image you can see the O2 Sensor Extension I bought from Jason B, and the Non Fouler with the stainless steel shorter non rusted part. I plan on removing the upstream extension to see if I do or do not get the CEL again as an experiment and will post an update here in a few days or a week to let it run its course.

[MENTION=9]Jason B[/MENTION] sold me the O2 extensions no drilling was required, you can text/call him (717)319-2100.

 

[aemravan]

In this image you can see the O2 Sensor Extension I bought from Jason B, and the Non Fouler with the stainless steel shorter non rusted part. I plan on removing the upstream extension to see if I do or do not get the CEL again as an experiment and will post an update here in a few days or a week to let it run its course.

[MENTION=9]Jason B[/MENTION] sold me the O2 extensions no drilling was required, you can text/call him (717)319-2100.

Wait, so you're also spacing out the UP stream sensor that is located before the CAT...? That is the sensor responsible for providing adjustment values for fuel trims.. I may be wrong.. but if my understanding is correct, by messing with the upstream sensor you're possibly messing with your A/F ratio..? I could ofcourse be wrong here.. but that was my understanding of how the system functions.

 

[KrazedJD]

Wait, so you're also spacing out the UP stream sensor that is located before the CAT...? That is the sensor responsible for providing adjustment values for fuel trims.. I may be wrong.. but if my understanding is correct, by messing with the upstream sensor you're possibly messing with your A/F ratio..? I could of course be wrong here.. but that was my understanding of how the system functions.

You are 100% correct but it was a test I was trying as recommended by someone else. I have removed the extensions from the upstream and ran truck for a few hundred miles, no CEL and it is running better than before. This confirms all the suspicions that the upstream needs to be mounted normally. The truck is getting better MPG now as well I have seen it returning to normal when I am not enjoying the pep. Now to look into the tuning option to really make her purr!

 

[aemravan]

You are 100% correct but it was a test I was trying as recommended by someone else. I have removed the extensions from the upstream and ran truck for a few hundred miles, no CEL and it is running better than before. This confirms all the suspicions that the upstream needs to be mounted normally. The truck is getting better MPG now as well I have seen it returning to normal when I am not enjoying the pep. Now to look into the tuning option to really make her purr!

Thanks for confirming! Had me all sorts of confused at first

 

[KrazedJD]

Thanks for confirming! Had me all sorts of confused at first

I felt a decent improvement have driven over 500 miles more since last post. I have a speedometer correction device and when I saw this after a quick sprint I was shocked and happy considering all the weight from modification and larger tire size etc:

 

[mtkey1121]

My DT long tubes are getting installed on my '07 later this week. I will not be running those first two cats. Not tryna weld in any, and I live in Alabama where emissions testing is a foreign concept at best!

I haven't ordered any O2 sensor spacers or foulers. Based on this thread (amazingly helpful info, and it's recent!) I plan to leave the upstream O2 sensors alone and try to source Jason Burtram's spacer doodads for the downstream sensors. The downstream ones look relatively accessible, so I may ride around with a CEL until those spacers come in, then pop 'em on. What do y'all think of that plan?

Maybe I'll try to get it tuned too, but I know nothing about that. What an adventure!

 

[nuron]

What ever happened to the 90-degree o2 sensor spacers? Can't seem to find them on ebay or amazon anymore...

 

[mtkey1121]

Header Woes

Well, I've had my long tubes on for a few weeks now. Local shop did a great job with the install. The headers have about 150 miles on them now and the dash is finally lit up.

I have P0420 and P0430 (as expected), so I got spacers from Burtman Industries and put them on the O2 sensors before the second set of cars at the front of the stock midpipes. Just did that earlier this week, haven't cleared codes yet or anything.

Also got P2196 and P2198 (running rich), which was a little surprising. Going to space the rear O2 sensors behind the second set of cats in the midpipe, clear codes, and see what happens. Hoping the ECU is just getting used to the motor's newfound breathing ability.

 

[mtkey1121]

Got under there just now and realized I was looking at the midpipe diagram the wrong way- only 4 O2 sensors down there, not 6. Makes a lot more sense now that I think about it hehe.

CEL and other lights are still on. Ordered an OBD II scanner from Amazon since it was 40% off. Once that comes in I'll reset the codes and see what happens. Not gonna space the air/fuel sensors yet since that makes me a little nervous, but if I feel the need to, I'll give it a shot.

 

[Cowabunga]

How did it work out for you? Getting ready to do some Long Tube headers on my clogged up Cats.

 

[Sunn4Runner]

I have been dealing with a shot cat on my bank 2 and getting the p0430 code since March. Tried replacing the o2 sensor to no avail, cel came back on after a week or so. Took to the shop and yea my cat on the drivers side is worn out, being 416k kms I’m not surprised. So after doing some research and reading this thread, I found these guys

POCREATION 2Pcs Oxygen Sensor Adapter Welding Plug Engine Auxiliary with Filter Auto Parts Spark Plug Non-Foulers M18x1.5 https://a.co/d/bTEhFVh on Amazon, and gonna give them a try out. Hopefully will work

 

[RydeFast08]

Did you get a p0136 or p0156 after doing this oxygen simulator mod? If so, what is the fix? 1M ohm 1/4 watt and 50 uF capacitor is what I used.

Yes sir that's the same setup I used. Tips from experience. Weather proof your work with marine quality heat shrink sheathing. Don't mix up the right and left connector. Make sure they go back on the same side. Check out unichip and underdog racing. Yes it can be flashed. The results will be better and probably cheaper than using a Dyno tuning shop due to the fact you're actually tuning it in real driving conditions.

 

[FrontRange4]

Yup, fully understand. Just a little disappointing that a supposedly up and up business would blame government for holding them to uphold the law. Sounds like a bit of a cop out to me. Basically, they were selling an illegal product.

You are beyond soy LMFAO. Go back to reddit