Obama: US has always paid it's bills

[02SE]

....

Do you understand what BrianSD_42's comment said? He said this 'Off Topic' section is always, (as in historically) where reasonable discourse goes to die. That this section always breaks down to "far far right opinions and anyone who disagrees and is the least bit centrist is a treated like a huge commie".

My rephrasing of his biased statement, was simply to illustrate how ridiculous, biased and antagonistic the comment sounded. My hope was to give him some perspective, that just maybe insulting those he sees as "far far right" (Whether in fact they are or not), is a surefire way to kill reasonable discourse.

His comment, and my reply, were ABOUT THE OFF TOPIC SECTION IN GENERAL, NOT THE SPECIFIC TOPIC OF THIS THREAD.

You keep asking if I understand.

Do YOU now understand my point?

 

[ndcent]

Is this based on fact? or just an ignorant assumption based on regurgitate fallacies? Like everyone signing up for Obamacare is lazy, doesn't want to work and is looking for a free ride?

I'm sorry but I get so frustrated hearing people regurgitate this garbage over and over again. Claiming anyone who doesn't agree is a 'liberal'. It reminds me of the people claiming the media is biased. No, the media is educated and paying attention. That's the difference!

The media knows that this healthcare plan was damn near the same plan proposed by Bob dole not too long ago, it is and was considered a conservative plan not that long ago. Now it seems that this extreme right has emerged that accuses anyone to the left of them of being a 'liberal'. This is a mostly republican plan. Centrist at best, but not liberal.

I know this is at least the fourth time I have posted this in this thread. Here's to hoping you guys will actually read some facts so I dont have to keep hearing about 'conservative' America supporting 'liberal' America. The biggest contributors to the economy are all 'liberal' states. The majority of the 'takers'? Conservative states. Sorry, but you've got it completely backwards.
Federal taxation and spending by state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




NO. NO. NO. This is a false equivalency. Simply not true and the kind of dangerous thinking that has created the situation we are currently in. Do you understand leftist ideals at all?? If everyone in here was advocating for the far far left it would be, AT THE LEAST, a single payer system.

But Benghazi!!!

 

[BrianSD_42]

Another way to say that is: this section always breaks down to far far left opinions and anyone who disagrees and is the least bit centrist is treated like a huge, angry, jesus freak redneck.



Just a little perspective.

As far as off-topic in general, I don't see anything from the far left. Threads that are pro Occupy Wall Street? Threads about feminism, minorities, unions, other crap the far left cares about...

Obviously our demographic of being 4Runner owners skews the viewers

BUT most threads (that are political) in off-topic come down to a few people implying that the country is "going commie" and a few other people saying "hey, no it's not"

 

[RunninInGA]

Anyone know how many people have actually enrolled in Obamacare and purchased a plan? The numbers I'm hearing from both sides seem so far apart that it all seems like a guess.

 

[nevada]

I see /off-topic/ is still where reasonable discourse goes to die :typing:

this section always breaks down to far far right opinions and anyone who disagrees and is the least bit centrist is a treated like a huge commie.

[MENTION=84120]nevada[/MENTION] doesn't even think there should be a government.

in the capacity they are now? you're right, I don't.

they are trying to manage local affairs, that's not their job.

 

[BrianSD_42]

I mean I get as annoyed as anyone else at how govt seems to work.
* workers stuck in their jobs for life
* can't easily fire people or cancel whole departments
* ever been to the dmv?

I'm also not happy about spending. I think our priorities are all wrong.

 

[ndcent]

I mean I get as annoyed as anyone else at how govt seems to work.
* workers stuck in their jobs for life
* can't easily fire people or cancel whole departments
* ever been to the dmv?

I'm also not happy about spending. I think our priorities are all wrong.

The spending it out of control. Shame on the poor for needing help or assistance, we need to get started on a 13th air craft carrier. This is America! Freedom fries!

 

[02SE]

As far as off-topic in general, I don't see anything from the far left.

Of course not, your opinion is biased to the left.

Before you edited your post, you said "Guys like you shout down anyone that has a centrist view, and calls it the far left".

I would submit that you apparently (your post that I rephrased makes that clear) consider another centrist viewpoint that happens to be to the right of yours, to be the far far right.

One guy even resorted to the tactic of calling names like "angry redneck", and I've seen "jesus freak" thrown out there periodically too.

I personally am neither of those.

So again, it's all about perspective.

 

[BigNuge]

Is this based on fact? or just an ignorant assumption based on regurgitate fallacies? Like everyone signing up for Obamacare is lazy, doesn't want to work and is looking for a free ride?

I'm sorry but I get so frustrated hearing people regurgitate this garbage over and over again. Claiming anyone who doesn't agree is a 'liberal'. It reminds me of the people claiming the media is biased. No, the media is educated and paying attention. That's the difference!

The media knows that this healthcare plan was damn near the same plan proposed by Bob dole not too long ago, it is and was considered a conservative plan not that long ago. Now it seems that this extreme right has emerged that accuses anyone to the left of them of being a 'liberal'. This is a mostly republican plan. Centrist at best, but not liberal.

I know this is at least the fourth time I have posted this in this thread. Here's to hoping you guys will actually read some facts so I dont have to keep hearing about 'conservative' America supporting 'liberal' America. The biggest contributors to the economy are all 'liberal' states. The majority of the 'takers'? Conservative states. Sorry, but you've got it completely backwards.
Federal taxation and spending by state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




NO. NO. NO. This is a false equivalency. Simply not true and the kind of dangerous thinking that has created the situation we are currently in. Do you understand leftist ideals at all?? If everyone in here was advocating for the far far left it would be, AT THE LEAST, a single payer system.

As much as you and I clearly stand on opposite sides of all these issues, I felt you did an ok job trying to present your case.

With the above post as it relates to the media you removed any and all credibility. I cannot believe even a self proclaimed "centist" (you're no centist by the way) can bring himself to call the media unbiased and factual....I'm sorry, there us not excuse for that.

You can't even admit your own affiliation?? You expect a red blooded conservative to believe a Canadian with full on leftist views is a centist?? Not trying to take a shot at you man, but you should know better. At least own what you are.

 

[BrianSD_42]

[MENTION=2541]02SE[/MENTION]

What I am trying to say is that there is no one here advocating for far left policies.

Far left policies would be things like gender quotas in private business, mandated by law. A wealth tax, not the same as income but an actual wealth tax. Opening all the borders, amy imigrant from anywhere can come work here and take our jobs legally. Unlimited unemployment forever. And on and on.

Europe has all these policies except a wealth tax.

I don't want the US to become Europe and am against the policies above BUT no one here is advocating those YET we, even centrists are called the far left.

 

[BrianSD_42]

I cannot believe even a self proclaimed "centist" (you're no centist by the way)

Well to be fair he is a Canadian Centrist. Not exactly the same thing as an American centrist.

Canada also has some stupid laws, plenty of them. They have huge limits on freedom of speech and criminally prosecute people for speach. But they also have some good laws as well. It is a balance.

Parts of Europe has plenty of stupid terrible laws as well. Their justice systems are totally F-d. You can be thrown in jail for 30 days without a charge or lawyer. They have trials in absentia because the right to face ones accusor is not a right.

 

[-JD-]

As much as you and I clearly stand on opposite sides of all these issues, I felt you did an ok job trying to present your case.

With the above post as it relates to the media you removed any and all credibility. I cannot believe even a self proclaimed "centist" (you're no centist by the way) can bring himself to call the media unbiased and factual....I'm sorry, there us not excuse for that.

You can't even admit your own affiliation?? You expect a red blooded conservative to believe a Canadian with full on leftist views is a centist?? Not trying to take a shot at you man, but you should know better. At least own what you are.

Where have I demonstrated "full on leftist views" ? I don't think anyone in this thread has really represented the far left. That being said, I would consider myself slightly left of center, but as I said I dont think anything I've advocated for in this thread would represent leftist ideals at all and I would encourage you to show me where I have.

As for the media, I'm not saying there is zero bias in the media. There is bias for both sides but my statement was in response to those who were claiming the media is 90%+ liberally biased. If you take a position on the far right you can't declare everything to the left of you, including the center, as liberal. As I said, if you look at the facts with objectivity you would see that this healthcare plan very much resembles conservative plans from not long ago. It is very much a centrist plan and thats why the majority of the media reports it that way. Just because its to the left of your position does not make it 'liberal' and just because the media's position is left of yours does not make them 'liberal' either.

 

[BigNuge]

The military has stock piles of tanks and planes that have never and possibly will never be used. Meanwhile people complain about providing healthcare to the sick.

The deficit has been reduced to a historically 'normal' level. Raising the debt ceiling is nothing new.

Breaking down every fiscal discussion to "the Military gets all the money" and "Conservatives are complaining about helping the sick" is not accurate/it is severely biased/and clearly shows your strong left views.

LOFL @ equating healthcare and communism

It's called personal responsibility. One of the biggest problems is uninsured "freeloaders" being admitted to ER's for emergency care on everyone else's dime because they don't have insurance. This cost was being passed along to everyone else who does pay.

Your leftist views here shows itself with the insinuation that the "freeloaders" are no longer going to be able to "freeload".

Thats a big fat negative sir. The freeloaders will simply have a shinny new Obamacare card to run up their staggering healthcare bills with.

What about people who are too sick, disabled, etc to work? Or those who have either a pre existing condition or simply didn't want to pay and are now faced with astronomical medical bills? Should they simply be left to die?

Further proving my assertion. Also, I point out a great portion of you sentence. With that you have done a great job describing the lion share of the people on welfare. Let me repeat that, the LION SHARE. Not everybody, just MOST. And when half of this country is ALREADY ON THE DOLE that number is enormous. The military budget is huge, yes. And it needs to be addressed. But when we stare in the face of ungrateful, never-ending "me me me, more more more" welfare recipients the contributors get pissed.

Should it be as brutal as "left to die" no. But if they have to work with a sore back, knee, hip then so be it.

I need foot surgery, I still go to work everyday. I am not getting the surgery right now because it would be expensive & require me to stay out of work for a while. Both of which I can't do because I take responsibility for pulling my own weight. Your typical welfare case would even hesitate to get right in there (on the public dole) and get that surgery, stay home for as long as they can get away with. Then look into the possibility of getting disability for the foot....(I was joking on that last part but I KNOW it happens every day).

That is what is happening now!!! I've said it at least twice in this thread already. Obamacare is going to force those freeloaders to pay for themselves! That's why, by the CBO's own report obamacare is going to save money. :frusty:

VERY BAD ASSUMPTION. A freeloader is likely always going to be a freeloader until they are FORCED to pull their weight. Asking them to pay $10 a month for Obamacare is not pulling their weight, it is freeloading in a poorly manufactured ruse. Does a nice job fooling everyone EXCPET for Conservatives.

Yes. That's why I called it a false equivalency. Again, if you feel the people disagreeing with you in this thread represent the 'far, far left' then I would reiterate my earlier question; Are you sure you understand far left ideas?

Finally, I think your version of left and mine do differ. If you want to go extreme then there would be two very different extremes. We see neither here in the States.

Spending trillions and trillions on social programs like welfare, only to have them continually asking for more is officially old. And folks like you advocating for them without even a small appreciation for the prolific abuse of these services puts you square in the left/far left column. Furthering your position on the left is your assertion that the government is the answer to ANYTHING regarding our daily lives. I have exhaustively covered the governments inability to effectively/efficiently mange the programs on the books currently. With something as vast and as important as healthcare for me and my family I want NOTHING to do with the government mandating or managing ANYTHING related to it.

 

[ndcent]

Breaking down every fiscal discussion to "the Military gets all the money" and "Conservatives are complaining about helping the sick" is not accurate/it is severely biased/and clearly shows your strong left views.

Meanwhile, in reality...

Breking down every fiscal discussion to "it's all the freeloaders" and "liberals want to destroy america" is not accurate/it is severely biased/and clearly shows your fringe right views.

 

[soj1057]

Of course not, your opinion is biased to the left.

Before you edited your post, you said "Guys like you shout down anyone that has a centrist view, and calls it the far left".

I would submit that you apparently (your post that I rephrased makes that clear) consider another centrist viewpoint that happens to be to the right of yours, to be the far far right.

One guy even resorted to the tactic of calling names like "angry redneck", and I've seen "jesus freak" thrown out there periodically too.

I personally am neither of those.

So again, it's all about perspective.

That was me, the angry redneck remark any way. I stand by what I said.

 

[02SE]

That was me, the angry redneck remark any way. I stand by what I said.

So the extent of your argument is calling childish names like we're all back in 2nd grade?

Okay, good luck with that.

 

[soj1057]

So the extent of your argument is calling childish names like we're all back in 2nd grade?

Okay, good luck with that.

Its funny to me that you chose to focus on my comments, and not even bring up those of the opposing sides....but then that would be fair and you wouldn’t be able to focus on a "liberal" and the "tactics I resort to". Again, I stand by what I said.

Also, since you are a fan of perspective, perhaps you should do more research before you start choosing parties for people. The previous poster was right, there haven’t been that many "left wing liberal" views expressed here despite what you consider “perspective”. Of course that doesn’t stop the majority of people raging against anyone with a view point they consider liberal or not conducive with their own, which to most of the players here seems to automatically make them "Liberal" any way.

 

[ndcent]

To expand on that and bring up something I previously mentioned, Obama is very moderate, but conservatives absolutely refuse to acknowledge that because it hurts their buzzword arguments. (Talk about "indoctrination.")

I mean the guy is terrorizing innocent women and children in Afghanistan with drones on the regular. Doesn't that very much align with the caveman chest pounding fringe right? America! Kill the brown forigners!!

 

[RunninInGA]

Suppose we're just moderately destroying this country then....could be worse.:rain::rain::rain:

 

[02SE]

Its funny to me that you chose to focus on my comments

The name calling directed at other board members is lame, no matter what side of an argument someone is on.