Obama: US has always paid it's bills

[Jumpkix]

Hey genious - in communist countries the people don't BUY health care. That's why its called Communism.

That's right, Brian. The government tells you how to spend your money under communism. By the way, how long have you been working for the Feds?

To everyone participating in this discussion, I'm not trying to set anyone up for an argument. I honestly just want to hear some other points of views, and maybe glean some wisdom from this situation so that I don't make the same mistakes in my own financial life. This thread wasn't intended to target Democrats, Republicans, conservatives or liberals. It's only to show that our country has a serious math problem. And when Obama tells everyone that we always pay our bills while simultaneously trying to increase debt capacity, that's just stupid.

I love the United States, and everything we stand for. I really do. But right now, my country reminds me of a 500 lb. fat kid sitting on his couch while stuffing his face with french fries and claiming to suffer from a thyroid problem. And it's ridiculous! It doesn't matter what your political stance is when it comes to the math: you cannot spend your way out of debt!!!

 

[BrianSD_42]

That's right, Brian. The government tells you how to spend your money under communism. By the way, how long have you been working for the Feds?

I don't currently work for any government but I did once work for the Federal government from 2000-2006 when I served in the US Military. 6 years and 2 deployments later I got out and went to college. You?

I was speaking to the fact that in communist governments people don't pay money for public services, it is provided to them so yeah your comment is completely wrong.

You basically don't understand how capitalism vs communism actually works. I'm not defending communism just saying that paying money for health care is not communism.

 

[BrianSD_42]

The point here is not to get "rid of public education"; it's that we don't need a massive DoE in Washington DC

[MENTION=96029]grey_ghost[/MENTION],

The Dept of Education does not work the way you seem to think it does. The money in their budget is sent out to the states then distributed to varies cities by the state governement. The money then arrives in school districts and is used to fund public schools. Very little ( I don't know for sure but I would say far less than 5%) it's used to fund salaries and keep the lights on at DoE in Washington DC.

2013 the DoE had a $69 Billion budget and less than 5000 employees.
Where did that money go OMG......? Well it went out to fund school districts so children who grew up without rich parents can attend free public school.

So when you or R Paul say we should get rid of the dept of education it means get rid of public education.

I hope after reading this and realizing the implications you will have switched your position.

 

[LINY4Runner]

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. government can’t pay its own bills. ... I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit.”
-Senator Barack Obama, March 16, 2006

 

[ndcent]

I'm continually amused by those who hold people accountable for their previous positions as if everything a politician says can never evolve.

I didn't like asparagus ten years ago but now I do - impeach impeach!!!

 

[RunninInGA]

I'm continually amused by those who hold people accountable for their previous positions as if everything a politician says can never evolve.

I didn't like asparagus ten years ago but now I do - impeach impeach!!!

Point made, but evolution seems to happen much more frequently to politicians than the average man, don't you think? And to speak with so much conviction about a topic in 2006 when it helps your position, then to speak and act with so much conviction to the opposite end of the spectrum in 2013 when it helps your narrative seems a little off also. The rate at which these politicians evolve on subjects is simply astonishing. Sure, we oftentimes speak out of both sides of our mouths as you're suggesting, but I don't get to base legislation and policy that affect hundreds of thousands, millions, billions, or even 10 people with my evolving convictions.

 

[bofa]

I'm continually amused by those who hold people accountable for their previous positions as if everything a politician says can never evolve.

I didn't like asparagus ten years ago but now I do - impeach impeach!!!

If you campaigned and made promises about your distaste for asparagus and turned around and forced it on everyone, I would certainly vote you out of office. :hatsoff:

 

[ndcent]

Point made, but evolution seems to happen much more frequently to politicians than the average man, don't you think? And to speak with so much conviction about a topic in 2006 when it helps your position, then to speak and act with so much conviction to the opposite end of the spectrum in 2013 when it helps your narrative seems a little off also. The rate at which these politicians evolve on subjects is simply astonishing. Sure, we oftentimes speak out of both sides of our mouths as you're suggesting, but I don't get to base legislation and policy that affect hundreds of thousands, millions, billions, or even 10 people with my evolving convictions.

Good points. But worth noting that not all evolution or even 180's are negative ones. For example Obama was against gay before he was for it, who I is certainly a win for human equality. Whether or not he flipped for political reasons is irrelevant as the net is a positive one.

 

[grey_ghost]

[MENTION=96029]grey_ghost[/MENTION],

The Dept of Education does not work the way you seem to think it does. The money in their budget is sent out to the states then distributed to varies cities by the state governement. The money then arrives in school districts and is used to fund public schools. Very little ( I don't know for sure but I would say far less than 5%) it's used to fund salaries and keep the lights on at DoE in Washington DC.

2013 the DoE had a $69 Billion budget and less than 5000 employees.
Where did that money go OMG......? Well it went out to fund school districts so children who grew up without rich parents can attend free public school.

So when you or R Paul say we should get rid of the dept of education it means get rid of public education.

I hope after reading this and realizing the implications you will have switched your position.

Sadly you're still missing my point and no you won't switch my position, but i guess we're both fools if we think debating with someone on internet is going to change the other guy's mind.
I happen to be one of those people that attended public schools and I can tell you that $69 Billion does not pay for those kids to attend school, WE the taxpayers pay for school. here in Texas in the city I live in, the property taxes suck a full 3% of your property appraised value every year to pay the schools, i.e.: if you live in a $200,000 house guess what? you pay about $6,000 in local taxes every year and most of that goes to the ISD.
During this govt shutdown, 95% of the federal DoE were furloughed and nobody noticed... plus the DoE Lyndon Banes Johnson building in DC is a massive marble structure in prime real-estate that is basically unnecessary. the point is, states are fully capable of doing many things on their own without federal oversight (interference).
Respectfully, if you still disagree then this is a pointless debate but what the heck? I guess it allows us to vent....

 

[grey_ghost]

Timely and relevant article on this topic:
Government Shutdown: Guess How Many Education Department Employees Are "Essential"

DoE

 

[RunninInGA]

Good points. But worth noting that not all evolution or even 180's are negative ones. For example Obama was against gay before he was for it, who I is certainly a win for human equality. Whether or not he flipped for political reasons is irrelevant as the net is a positive one.

Can't argue this at all.

 

[Dirtyfingers]

Following up on what Brian said, it basically is used by everyone regardless. Everyone likes the parts of Obamacare, but when you ask them if they like it as a whole, then people starry to dispute it. It's like saying this, you like your leg right? Yeah I like my legs. How about your hand? Yeah it's a good hand. What about your face? Yeah I like my face too. Do you like (insert name here) as a whole person? No I hate their guts. I hope that kinda guides you to see. It's pretty much just like the state minimum of car insurence, yeah you don't like having to pay for it but you have to have it.

 

[LINY4Runner]

I'm continually amused by those who hold people accountable for their previous positions as if everything a politician says can never evolve.

I didn't like asparagus ten years ago but now I do - impeach impeach!!!

lol it's not a position, it was a fact and a cheap political jab. Blame Bush. Thats what everyone loved to do when he was in office, blame Bush. But now Obama has his own problems and we can't blame Bush anymore, but he can't take the blame himself?

Raising the debt cieling is a sign of failed leadership. Quick, everyone, who's the leader this year? Not GWB.

 

[BrianSD_42]

I happen to be one of those people that attended public schools and I can tell you that $69 Billion does not pay for those kids to attend school, WE the taxpayers pay for school. here in Texas in the city I live in, the property taxes .....

[MENTION=96029]grey_ghost[/MENTION]

I guess we are both disagreeing with each others points but I'm pretty confident I'm right LoL.

The money isn't going to fund those < 5,000 Federal employees who work for DoE. The money $$$$, nearly all of it goes to LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRICTS. These are the facts bro. Pull your head out of the sand.

Here is a website that breaks down spending on education in Texas.
Public Education Spending in Texas - Executive Summary - FAST

In Texas in 2009 the US FEDERAL GOVERMENT sent the state of Texas over $780 Million in cash (out of the annual DoE budget) for funding local schools. This pretty much repeats for all other states in the nation.

Yes local Texas taxpayers contribute but so does the Federal Government.

As for my own beliefs on what to do about education .... I think we need less local control and more federal standardization. I highly suggest watching Waiting For Superman, a documentary (also a hit piece on teachers unions) on this topic.


See these charts

 

[Jumpkix]

I don't currently work for any government but I did once work for the Federal government from 2000-2006 when I served in the US Military. 6 years and 2 deployments later I got out and went to college. You?

I was speaking to the fact that in communist governments people don't pay money for public services, it is provided to them so yeah your comment is completely wrong.

You basically don't understand how capitalism vs communism actually works. I'm not defending communism just saying that paying money for health care is not communism.

Thank you for your service. I'll be OCS bound soon.

You're right again, Brian. The government does provide those services to everyone under communism. But guess where all of that money is coming from to pay for those crap services that don't work?

Yes, please tell me how communism really works, Brian. My family that fled Romania under Ceaușescu's rule would love to hear your definition of communism.

Just FYI, buying health insurance is a great thing. Being FORCED to buy health insurance is a very bad thing. Do you understand the difference? Because most people don't. I'm all for everyone having access to healthcare, but not through a government program or at the expense of everyone else. Government is rarely the answer to our problems. /Endrant

 

[WillK]

[MENTION=10950]Brian[/MENTION]SD... Playing devil's advocate. Would you say most of that money goes to Head Start, free lunch program, test monitoring and the no child left behind programs that are normally funded by the federal government.

As for the DOE, they're building has a great cafeteria/lunch there!

 

[RunninInGA]

[MENTION=96029]grey_ghost[/MENTION]

I guess we are both disagreeing with each others points but I'm pretty confident I'm right LoL.

The money isn't going to fund those < 5,000 Federal employees who work for DoE. The money $$$$, nearly all of it goes to LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRICTS. These are the facts bro. Pull your head out of the sand.

Here is a website that breaks down spending on education in Texas.
Public Education Spending in Texas - Executive Summary - FAST

In Texas in 2009 the US FEDERAL GOVERMENT sent the state of Texas over $780 Million in cash (out of the annual DoE budget) for funding local schools. This pretty much repeats for all other states in the nation.

Yes local Texas taxpayers contribute but so does the Federal Government.

As for my own beliefs on what to do about education .... I think we need less local control and more federal standardization. I highly suggest watching Waiting For Superman, a documentary (also a hit piece on teachers unions) on this topic.


See these charts

The federal government, a political organization with a new leader / set of ideals as often as every 4 years, has no business standardizing education (they can't even put together a competent website for Obamacare - the flagship legislation for this administration)....that's been a contributing factor in the decline we're currently experiencing.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Well its no secret here that some people don't like the Federal Government at all or in general.

But I just feel it is necessary to point out that the DoE's spending overwhelming goes to funding public schools (paying teacher salaries and other spending) and not to the 5,000 or so DoE employees.

So when people say get rid of the DoE they are saying get rid of (FEDERAL) public funding for education.

 

[BrianSD_42]

I'll be OCS bound soon.

[MENTION=89421]Jumpkix[/MENTION]

Thank you for volunteering to serve! OCS should be a great experience


Back to this conversation ....

Just FYI, buying health insurance is a great thing. Being FORCED to buy health insurance is a very bad thing. Do you understand the difference?

It still doesn't change the fact that even though being forced to purchase privately owned health insurance is a bad thing (and I agree it is stupid and I was against the mandate), that is not communism. I understand your family fled communism but O-care as it is called is not communism. You are simply wrong to think that. In fact it is a lot closer to fascism (although still far away) than communism.

Mine family did not flee the communists so I cannot relate. We have been here in America before 1900.

 

[BrianSD_42]

@BrianSD... Playing devil's advocate. Would you say most of that money goes to Head Start, free lunch program, test monitoring and the no child left behind programs that are normally funded by the federal government.

What I will say is that the money is not going to the 5,000 federal employees as the media and some politians imply. As already mentioned the money goes to local school districts and is distributed though a variety of programs.

I also stated that I am not really a fan of locally controlled school districts because the system does not seem to work very well. I am also against Tenure for HS teachers - I think that is crazy. I'm actually a fairly middle or the road guy on these issues it is just that /off-topic/ leans so far to the right that I sound like a liberal.