Octane. and how it effects your truck.

[wfo9]

Same here. I recently put in costco 91 octane in the 4runner just to see if there would be a difference and by golly the truck definitely has more pep to it. I understand that the truck is still running on a blend of 87/91 because i've done a couple tanks of 91. Trying to accomplish a couple things here:

A. Increase mpg (doubtful it'd help)
B. Increased power for towing as we are looking for a travel trailer

Nothing scientific here, just sharing my thoughts. I'd hook up my techstream but I wouldnt even know my way around the software. However, I can program replacement remotes like no other!

I posted a thread asking for logging help that included screen shots of how to use TIS to log timing data. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/246102-favor-please-someone-tis.html

It's very easy, but I can't seem to get anyone here to do it. I understand it takes time and people are busy... but this is how you learn with data. Talk is cheap.

 

[nglayton]

Most gas stations here only have 85 and 91, if you’re lucky some will blend up 87 for you.

In my area (Oregon) most places sell 85,87, 91 except Costco with 85 & 91 only. I don't recall ever seeing anything greater than 91, but I will start looking now. I'm sure it's probably there, but not on my radar.

I've been following this thread .... and I'm thinking "WTH, I'll give some octane a few tanks to try, who knows, might be interesting."

So, on the way home I stop at my usual Shell station. 87 is $2.39, 93 is $3.39. Well, I ain't THAT curious.

I would like to preface my next several statements by saying for the record, "I AM A CHEAP BASTARD"

I refuse to pay: $125+ for Aux battery trays, $250-$300 for cargo nets, $350 for molle racks, $90 for tow hooks and many, many more ridiculously priced items that are routinely discussed, bought and sold here on t4r.org.


In my area the difference between octane levels is generally 10 cents. When I roll in to fill up, the prices look like $2.49, $2.59 and $2.69. You get the idea...

So, what I don't understand is why people don't "invest" in higher octane when the difference in a tank is generally about $2. Yes, you read that correctly TWO DOLLARS. Do the math. Go from 85 up to 91 it's about $4.

Even in philsey's example above the diff is about $20 a tank. How often does everyone fill up? once a week or less? I'm guessing less. I drive 15k -20k a year and fill up about every 6-7 days. If I didn't drive for work I would probably fill up once a month.

It's been a long time since I put anything but 91 in my tank. For me the truck runs better and gets a little better MPG (not hard to test, but it's been years)

At $2 to $4 to even $20 tank, I can have one less drink at dinner or hell even one less night out for dinner a month. I will probably live longer for it and so will my 4Runner.

I am not trying to put anyone down, no one should be offended by this. It's just one cheap bastard's opinion.

 

[honda99ex]

In my area (Oregon) most places sell 85,87, 91 except Costco with 85 & 91 only. I don't recall ever seeing anything greater than 91, but I will start looking now. I'm sure it's probably there, but not on my radar.


I would like to preface my next several statements by saying for the record, "I AM A CHEAP BASTARD"

I refuse to pay: $125+ for Aux battery trays, $250-$300 for cargo nets, $350 for molle racks, $90 for tow hooks and many, many more ridiculously priced items that are routinely discussed, bought and sold here on t4r.org.


In my area the difference between octane levels is generally 10 cents. When I roll in to fill up, the prices look like $2.49, $2.59 and $2.69. You get the idea...

So, what I don't understand is why people don't "invest" in higher octane when the difference in a tank is generally about $2. Yes, you read that correctly TWO DOLLARS. Do the math. Go from 85 up to 91 it's about $4.

Even in philsey's example above the diff is about $20 a tank. How often does everyone fill up? once a week or less? I'm guessing less. I drive 15k -20k a year and fill up about every 6-7 days. If I didn't drive for work I would probably fill up once a month.

It's been a long time since I put anything but 91 in my tank. For me the truck runs better and gets a little better MPG (not hard to test, but it's been years)

At $2 to $4 to even $20 tank, I can have one less drink at dinner or hell even one less night out for dinner a month. I will probably live longer for it and so will my 4Runner.

I am not trying to put anyone down, no one should be offended by this. It's just one cheap bastard's opinion.

I use my 4runner for work so it's a tool and as such I view it all from a financial perspective. Around here the prices are generally 30 cents higher between grades so 50 - 60 cents difference 87 to 93. Let's say $10 more per fill. I fill every 4-5 days and it generally costs me $35-40 per fill. $10 is about 25% more which I look at and say if I stuck with 87 that's like every 4th fill is free vs going to 93!!! Admittedly I haven't torn down the engine or anything but I figure I'm out of this truck before it goes bad so not my problem???

I do use higher octane when I tow, for obvious reasons. Also when I go work in other regions where ethanol free is available I use that and mileage is visibly enhanced. The truck also seems to subjectively like it more. The only thing is ethanol free usually costs 30% more than 87 and the fuel economy improvement is only like 10% so really it isn't cost effective... I use it to tow mainly because it nets me just that much more distance that I can make it to my destination without stopping for gas.

 

[johnbt]

"So, what I don't understand is why people don't "invest" in higher octane when the difference in a tank is generally about $2."

Because it's a waste of $2.

 

[johnbt]

www.caranddriver.com/features/regular-or-premium

 

[johnbt]

I'm back from the gas station. Bought 20 gallons of regular.

Somebody figure what premium would have cost me at 53 cents/gallon more.

Regular
2.29

Midgrade
2.59

Premium
2.82

Diesel
2.65

 

[rcjoe]

i'll stick to whats recommended which is 87.. no way i'm putting 93 octane on a NA 6 cyl low power motor.... on the other hand my Z06 gets 93 all the time because that is whats recommended :thumb:

 

[nglayton]

www.caranddriver.com/features/regular-or-premium

Directly from the article:

"We should note that even cars designed to run on regular fuel might require higher octane as they age. Carbon buildup inside the cylinder can create hot spots that can initiate knock. So can malfunctioning exhaust-gas-recirculation systems that raise cylinder temperatures. Hot temperatures and exceptionally low humidity can increase an engine's octane requirements as well."

Directly from the T4R owners Manual:

"You must only use unleaded gasoline in your vehicle.
Select octane rating 87 (Research Octane Number 91) or higher. Use of unleaded gasoline with an octane rating lower than 87 may result in engine knocking. Persistent knocking can lead to engine damage."

Does anyone see the "or higher" part of that quote?? Anyone at all?

I guess it also depends on your definitions of "regular fuel" and "age".
For my $2, regular fuel is 85 Octane (in my area), which according to the manual is below the recommended Octane rating.
For my next $2, a six year old 4Runner with 92k is "aged"

One more thing, for those that say "not my problem" $4 a week ($200 yr) is way cheaper than buying a new $35k vehicle no matter how long you wait between new vehicles. Even at $10 a week ($500 yr)or $20 a week ($1k yr) the math should tell you all you need to know. If it doesn't I suggest a new calculator or perhaps an accountant. :bored:

 

[honda99ex]

Directly from the article:


Directly from the T4R owners Manual:


Does anyone see the "or higher" part of that quote?? Anyone at all?

I guess it also depends on your definitions of "regular fuel" and "age".
For my $2, regular fuel is 85 Octane (in my area), which according to the manual is below the recommended Octane rating.
For my next $2, a six year old 4Runner with 92k is "aged"

One more thing, for those that say "not my problem" $4 a week ($200 yr) is way cheaper than buying a new $35k vehicle no matter how long you wait between new vehicles. Even at $10 a week ($500 yr)or $20 a week ($1k yr) the math should tell you all you need to know. If it doesn't I suggest a new calculator or perhaps an accountant. :bored:

This is the internet and these are all hypothetical scenarios BUT you are assuming that low octane is potentially 'damaging' the engine vs higher octane when low octane is what's recommended. To me you may increase your safety margin using higher octane, you may net some power gains, you may net some fuel economy improvement but at what cost... There are too many variables. The article says you 'might' need to use it as the vehicle ages but you might not. Honestly I recall an article way back where they tested top tier gas vs non top tier and the non top tier engines had carbon buildup but running a few tanks of top tier cleaned it right up... So lets say a business keeps its vehicle for 6-7 years at $1000 a year gas savings. That's $6-7k towards a new vehicle. Hell at that price you could probably have the entire engine rebuilt. At a point certain businesses choose not to keep older vehicles for maintenance costs, appearances etc. I always thought I'd keep my cars til 300k miles etc but I have yet to do that. They either died, cost too much to revive or were traded cause I wanted out. Also these days tech and advances in the auto industry have exponential growth. 6 years from now you might have an engine with the same specs getting 50mpg. Or chassis stiffness 95% better than an older model. I guess it's up to you to decide what's important. Honestly having worked around the world, other people put their Toyotas in way harsher conditions than me and they all survived! To each his own I guess.

 

[johnbt]

"Does anyone see the "or higher" part of that quote?? Anyone at all?"

Sure, all the manuals say that, even my Toro 50" with a 24 hp Kohler. It means you may safely use "or higher", not that it will make it run any better.

As far as a dirty engine requiring higher octane, I haven't seen a really crudded up engine since the '90s and that was a early '70s Chevy.

My girlfriend gave her '03 4-cyl Camry to the relatives and it's running fine on regular with 300k miles on it.

She gave her '06 Camry to her son for the babysitter to use and it's running fine on regular with 250k on it.

The new Avalon I bought her is a V6 and it's running fine on regular.

As far as premium gas making an engine run better, I suppose it could add 2 hp or so until the computer adjusts for the change in gas. Octane isn't a measure of power, it's a measure of resistance to detonation.

 

[nglayton]

:deadhorse:

So because all the manuals say it, there is automatically no reason to pay attention to it? Nor is there any truth to it?

And somehow the petroleum industry, the automotive industry and the lawn mower industry are all in cahoots with each other to make an extra 10 cents a gallon. They will split it 3 ways and make billions!


Got it! :tinfoil3:

 

[Runn4est]

I'm on the east coast so 93 is easy to find. I just did an experiment with my 4th gen and filled up twice with 93. I didn't notice any better mpgs, but my engine was noticeably quieter, both at idle and under load. My VR6 used to require 91 minimum, so I was excited to only need 87 (prices are like .40-50 higher for premium), but if I find a station with smaller differentials in price I'll probably stick with 93.

 

[Dalko43]

Directly from the article:


Directly from the T4R owners Manual:


Does anyone see the "or higher" part of that quote?? Anyone at all?

I guess it also depends on your definitions of "regular fuel" and "age".
For my $2, regular fuel is 85 Octane (in my area), which according to the manual is below the recommended Octane rating.
For my next $2, a six year old 4Runner with 92k is "aged"

One more thing, for those that say "not my problem" $4 a week ($200 yr) is way cheaper than buying a new $35k vehicle no matter how long you wait between new vehicles. Even at $10 a week ($500 yr)or $20 a week ($1k yr) the math should tell you all you need to know. If it doesn't I suggest a new calculator or perhaps an accountant. :bored:

Regular is 87 Octane where I live. I can't even recall an area that I've recently been to that has 85 Octane as regular.

I use 87 Octane, I get medicore fuel economy (18-19 combined). I have occasionally used premium fuel, and I still noticed roughly the same mediocre fuel economy.

Use 87 Octane and stop worrying about it. It's a 4runner; the engine was designed for reliability and longevity. So long as you're using the factory recommended minimum octane fuel, you're fine.

 

[RonJR]

Regular is 85 in Colorado, and in pretty much any area where the elevation is at or above 5000 feet. Lower octane is acceptable at higher altitudes because the engine pulls in less air, decreasing cylinder pressures and thus the propensity for knocking.

Basically, 85 octane at 5000 feet has the same knock resistance as 87 at sea level, for a normally aspirated engine, and it's cheaper to refine. It's about 30 cents cheaper here at the pump than 87.

That doesn't mean your Toyota won't run better with 87. Almost any engine with a knock sensor and electronically controlled ignition timing will see power and economy advantages by going from 85 to 87.

 

[doro89]

Regular is 87 Octane where I live. I can't even recall an area that I've recently been to that has 85 Octane as regular.

I use 87 Octane, I get medicore fuel economy (18-19 combined). I have occasionally used premium fuel, and I still noticed roughly the same mediocre fuel economy.

Use 87 Octane and stop worrying about it. It's a 4runner; the engine was designed for reliability and longevity. So long as you're using the factory recommended minimum octane fuel, you're fine.

How are you getting 18-19mpg???
My average is 12 and I always see the "eco" light on when driving.

 

[bonesholmes]

Howdy all. New here and a new T4R owner. The husband decided we needed a bigger vehicle, so I picked this lovely beast of a truck (I know about the vehicles, he knows about the mechanics). Anywhoo, in regard to octane rating, we've put nothing but 93 in our 2017 limited. Purchased in August and has almost 3500 miles, a mix of highway and city. We average about 17.5-17.8 miles per gallon. The acceleration is amazing.

We've used 92 or above in all of our vehicles since 1994 without problem. Pickup is good and there's a little more hp. I used high octane in my 2004 Ford Mustang, which still runs nicely at 150,000. Engine is clean, everything else is wearing down (except the tranny...a miracle it being a Ford). At the end of the day, its honestly a personal choice depending upon weather conditions, usage, activity, etc. We also use pure synthetic oil.

 

[nglayton]

Use 87 Octane and stop worrying about it.

I think there is some confusion. I'm not worried about it, never have been.

 

[Dalko43]

How are you getting 18-19mpg???
My average is 12 and I always see the "eco" light on when driving.

12 mpg combined? Even for 100% city driving that seems pretty low.

I have a lot of highway driving mixed with rural/suburban backroads.

 

[doro89]

12 mpg combined? Even for 100% city driving that seems pretty low.

I have a lot of highway driving mixed with rural/suburban backroads.

Yep, at first I thought my sensor was lying but calculated myself and the sensor is accurate. Today I used techron fuel injector cleaner, will see if that changes anything.

 

[1jzgte]

How are you getting 18-19mpg???
My average is 12 and I always see the "eco" light on when driving.

eco light is based off throttle input. What tire pressure are you running at? It seems you've got a heavy wheel/tire setup.