mrblah
Senior Member
lol..sure buddy.
Offroad vs Offroad Pro?
- Thread starter CutthroatSlam
- Start date
lol..sure buddy.
jdrunner28
Member
TRD off road adds
Pictured is a TRD Off Road with Toytec suspension , Nitto Ridge Grappler tires and added the TRD Pro grill. If you plan on changing out significant components of the TRD Pro save your upgrade cost and invest it in the aftermarket upgrades. Purely my opinion.
Pictured is a TRD Off Road with Toytec suspension , Nitto Ridge Grappler tires and added the TRD Pro grill. If you plan on changing out significant components of the TRD Pro save your upgrade cost and invest it in the aftermarket upgrades. Purely my opinion.
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Hans Moleman
New member
1. Buy a TRD PRO.
2. Strip off all of the TRD PRO parts except for the grill and badges.
3. Install a high dollar Fox, King, or Icon suspension.
4. Install SCS wheels
5. Install Gobi rack.
6. Drive around to make other people pissed off is priceless.
2. Strip off all of the TRD PRO parts except for the grill and badges.
3. Install a high dollar Fox, King, or Icon suspension.
4. Install SCS wheels
5. Install Gobi rack.
6. Drive around to make other people pissed off is priceless.
4RUNNER: TRD PRO vs OFF-ROAD w/KDSS - YouTube
Lol, yeah Toyota puts on KDSS to increase body roll and reduce handling performance. I hear ya
Let's see those slalom or skidpad g numbers!
Baystate4Runner
New member
4RUNNER: TRD PRO vs OFF-ROAD w/KDSS - YouTube
Lol, yeah Toyota puts on KDSS to increase body roll and reduce handling performance. I hear ya
Let's see those slalom or skidpad g numbers!
No, Toyota puts on KDSS to decrease body roll and improve handling performance over non KDSS 4Runners without the PRO suspension and shocks.
Both KDSS and the PRO suspension improve handling performance over other 4Runners. They just do it in different ways and I experienced the pro doing it a bit better.
Baystate4Runner
New member
Yes - we both run Falken Wildpeaks AT.
Mine are just two months old, his were 5 months old...both with the same thread depth.
True about the consistency of a full sway bar.
4wheeldrivesmatter
New member
It sounds like you’re trying really hard to convince other ( and yourself ) those fox shocks handle, ride, and performs better than KDSS. ( buyers remorse perhaps?) those Fox shocks work really well as well, if you’re happy with them, no need to try to prove anyone otherwise
Let us rejoice for suspension!
Jetboy
New member
I can't imagine a scenario where the model with the softest shock valving (TRD Pro) and the smaller sway bars would have less body roll than the model with the biggest sway bar and firmer shock valving. It would defy the primary purpose of bypass shocks - to be very soft mid stroke and firm up at the ends. I think it's uncertain between Xreas and KDSS, but the TRD Pro is not in the conversation for lower body roll.
Overall ride quality - that's really a question of balance of a lot of factors. The TRD Pro should have the least harsh ride on pavement because it has the softest valving of any of the shocks mid-stroke.
Overall ride quality - that's really a question of balance of a lot of factors. The TRD Pro should have the least harsh ride on pavement because it has the softest valving of any of the shocks mid-stroke.
The KDSS bars attach to different chassis/suspension points and as such their leverage is different in addition to their stiffness.
I think this guy talks about it in one of his blog or videos somehow where but I could be mis-remembering.
Toyota 4Runner TRD Off-Road with KDSS Suspension Deep Dive
Ripper238
Senior Member
Yeah. With the Pro or regular sway bar its a 1:1 motion ratio where KDSS is somewhere around 75%, but the additional thickness of the KDSS sway bar does compensate for that difference.
Best breakdown discussion of KDSS i have seen: 2021 Toyota 4Runner TRD Off-Road Suspension Walkaround: Why I Bought The KDSS Stabilizer Bar System - YouTube
Edit:
Same guy i just linked the video instead. lol
Jetboy
New member
FWIW - the motion ratio is reasonably close between the two sway bars based on their mount points to the suspension. The KDSS bar does have somewhat less leverage, but I'd have to go measure to figure it out exactly. I don't know the lever arm measurements - ie. the offset between the torsion rod portion and the mount to the suspension for either one. Without that there's no way I could estimate the force difference. My guess is that the longer lever arm on the non KDSS bar either equals or more than offsets the greater motion ratio - making the net force softer than the KDSS bar even if they were the same diameter. But the KDSS bar also does have softer rubber bushings at the ends vs the rod ends on the non KDSS bar.
Just on the bar diameter alone - assuming all else is equal (It's not, but just to give a rough idea of the difference in bar torsion spring rate) the KDSS bar at 1.68" diameter is about 3.25 times higher than that of a 1.18" diameter bar.
I think the overall anti-roll force of the KDSS bar is somewhere in the ballpark of 3-4 times higher than the non KDSS 4x4 when the shutter valves are closed. The visual comparison in cornering seems to match that guess at least at a high level.
I'd also opine that arguably the KDSS sway bars are a little too stiff. I think they could soften them up a bit and it would be a little better. I still find it an oddity that Toyota didn't use KDSS on the TRD Pro with a softer sway bar. As an OEM it could have easily spec'd any sway bar including one that matched the non-KDSS anti-roll force and still offered the benefits of KDSS at lower speeds. But since much of the TRD Pro is done at the port rather than at the factory - it may have been too much work to swap the sway bars. I still think a softer KDSS fit bar set could be a good product offering for an aftermarket spring maker.
Just on the bar diameter alone - assuming all else is equal (It's not, but just to give a rough idea of the difference in bar torsion spring rate) the KDSS bar at 1.68" diameter is about 3.25 times higher than that of a 1.18" diameter bar.
I think the overall anti-roll force of the KDSS bar is somewhere in the ballpark of 3-4 times higher than the non KDSS 4x4 when the shutter valves are closed. The visual comparison in cornering seems to match that guess at least at a high level.
I'd also opine that arguably the KDSS sway bars are a little too stiff. I think they could soften them up a bit and it would be a little better. I still find it an oddity that Toyota didn't use KDSS on the TRD Pro with a softer sway bar. As an OEM it could have easily spec'd any sway bar including one that matched the non-KDSS anti-roll force and still offered the benefits of KDSS at lower speeds. But since much of the TRD Pro is done at the port rather than at the factory - it may have been too much work to swap the sway bars. I still think a softer KDSS fit bar set could be a good product offering for an aftermarket spring maker.
Jetboy
New member
Just for fun - I put the stock skids back on my 4R and the red line is a leveling laser set just under 11 inches (it was on a small paint can that was as close as I could get to the right height to show clearance. You can see where the minimum clearance is. My 4R in this picture is stock rear spring height and front is set around +1.5" with adjustable coilovers. It's roughly 21" wheel center to fender lip. Stock was around 19.25" IIRC. It's as low as the adjuster ring goes on Fox Factory 2.5 coilovers.
Tires are 275/60/20 - that translates to about 33" height - they're roughly 1.5" taller than a stock 265/70/17, 1/2" taller side by side compared to a 285/70/17 Toyo AT, and 1" shorter than my 285/75/17 Cooper AT3 set. So compared to a stock 4Runner - clearance up front on mine is around 2.5-2.75" higher than how I got it. You can't see it in the picture, but the rear diff is the lowest point at around 10". The second lowest point is the transfer case skid plate (aftermarket) and the third lowest point is the rear most IFS cross member. It's lower than the KDSS portion of the front skid plate by around 3/4".
Tires are 275/60/20 - that translates to about 33" height - they're roughly 1.5" taller than a stock 265/70/17, 1/2" taller side by side compared to a 285/70/17 Toyo AT, and 1" shorter than my 285/75/17 Cooper AT3 set. So compared to a stock 4Runner - clearance up front on mine is around 2.5-2.75" higher than how I got it. You can't see it in the picture, but the rear diff is the lowest point at around 10". The second lowest point is the transfer case skid plate (aftermarket) and the third lowest point is the rear most IFS cross member. It's lower than the KDSS portion of the front skid plate by around 3/4".
Bruin1md
New member
Definitely agree that KDSS provides better handling over a pro.
Having bought the pro, but having also driven an OR with KDSS, the KDSS gets the nod in on road handling.
However, the Pro’s suspension is/was superior in eating up the expected bumps of bad roads.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Having bought the pro, but having also driven an OR with KDSS, the KDSS gets the nod in on road handling.
However, the Pro’s suspension is/was superior in eating up the expected bumps of bad roads.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
