Only KDSS w/lift need apply

[Desert36]

so then moguls, if you are articulating enough to stuff fenders those are moguls and i'm not sure why you are driving fast

did you add a front bumper or anything up front for your firmer springs? i think that is still the culprit unless you are actually talking about moguls

It literally takes the ride from plush to rough right at that cusp of the kdss kicking "off" 10mph.... It's the kdss

 

[Monkeymenno]

A KDSS on/off switch sounds like the perfect solution. There should be a kdss fuse in the drivers footwell. What I dont know is if the locks the system engaged or disengaged. Try pulling it and see what happens.

 

[T5RUNNER]

So if you are sure it is KDSS causing your problems, what are you asking? You can't turn it off, you can't adjust it, and thinner bars do not exist. You could remove it. You could try to invent some kind of emulator to fake the speed sensor signal, but it probably won't do much because its mainly a passive hydraulic system.

I have never noticed a problem bombing down fire roads, but with or without KDSS this is not a baja truck. If you are stuffing wheels you are probably just driving too fast. If you are doing this drive on a regular basis, maybe you could look at trading in your runner for a raptor.

 

[Teephud]

So if you are sure it is KDSS causing your problems, what are you asking? You can't turn it off, you can't adjust it, and thinner bars do not exist. You could remove it. You could try to invent some kind of emulator to fake the speed sensor signal, but it probably won't do much because its mainly a passive hydraulic system.

I have never noticed a problem bombing down fire roads, but with or without KDSS this is not a baja truck. If you are stuffing wheels you are probably just driving too fast. If you are doing this drive on a regular basis, maybe you could look at trading in your runner for a raptor.

Apparently the 5th gen T4R does make a good baja truck... 2010 Toyota 4Runner Takes on the Baja 1000 - Motor Trend
:zoom:

 

[T5RUNNER]

Apparently the 5th gen T4R does make a good baja truck... 2010 Toyota 4Runner Takes on the Baja 1000 - Motor Trend
:zoom:

And interestingly, even with $50,000 in mods to make it a baja truck, they decided to keep the KDSS.

 

[1engineer]

This is exactly the dipshittery I was trying to avoid good for you

You are posting on a free public forum. You get what you get so don't complain.

You have two positions with KDSS basically. Off and On. It's on at high speeds and off at low speeds. Because of the sway bar size and mounting location you really can't do much. Trying to change the operation and add an on off switch will be a challenge to say the least. Good luck.

If I were you I would try King shocks instead of Icons to see if it fits your application needs better.

 

[mo_mo]

So I thought this trail edition 4Runner was a little stiff on washboard roads when stock, but it wasn't gonna stay that way for long... I've got an icon stage 2(650lbs front spring rates) lift kit with the track bar and a perfect alignment afterwards, the route I took with the kdss was to strap the cylinders in place before jacking it up then remove the sway bars, did the lift, put it down and hooked up the sway bars and took the straps off, everything was fine, kdss moves and works like it should, sway bars are level, did the bleed procedure anyway, no air... I do a LOT of Offroading and have years of experience on my own time and in competition.
The thing works great at low speed like 6mph and under, long travel shocks, tires stay on the ground, articulation is great!, I'm running 16psi in the tires but I'm typically going around 15mph on a lot of Stoney or washboard roads and it feels as stiff as a sports car, just like on the street.... my take on this is it needs a much smaller sway bar or the valving in the accumulators needs to be changed for easier movement... I thought it might be the shock valving or spring rate not matching the kdss movement but at higher speeds the shocks work great and I don't want to chance bottoming out if I make a shock valving adjustment + vehicle down time while the shocks are sent out.. Does anybody else with a lift and kdss feel the same rough ride at medium speeds offroad? And are there smaller sway bars out there for kdss? if you have any real experience with your own similar set up please respond.. Thanks

Warning, alcohol in effect.

Drive faster and get our of the harmonic!!!

What's the load rating of that LT tire? C, D, or E. If you're running more than a C then expect it to be harsh with a 4Runner. D and E are designed for higher loads which means stiffer sidewalls (cornering with a big trailer trying to wag the dog).

I like the idea of opening up the solenoids "on-demand" and overriding the KDSS stock logic. On washboards I don't think it would do much, but on moguls it should help slightly (whatever the sway bar stiffness on top of your springs is, so maybe 70 lb/in I'm just guessing). You could add two G sensors one on the right and one on the left side of the vehicle measuring vertical acceleration. When out of phase by 180 degrees +/- 45, and the frequency matches your suspension natural frequency +/- 10%, then open the solenoids (unless steering wheel is turned more than TBD). PATENT THAT!

Honestly I suspect this is more of a shock/spring/vehicle mass/tire problem than a KDSS problem. You could unplug the KDSS either at the solenoid housing on the frame rail just under the driver hidden behind a shield or pull a fuse. I don't know if it 'fails-safe' in the rigid,flex, or last state.

Note that one 5th gen with KDSS ran the rubicon, baja 1000 (and rolled), and continued to run two years later (you can see the rear KDSS intact at 1:08)
https://youtu.be/fJwLeYHTwDw
Don't know if they tweaked KDSS for any of that.

Oh, perhaps an alternative to an off-the-shelf smaller sway bar that doesn't exist is to mod the current sway bar. It's much easier to make things less rigid than more rigid by removing material, cutting, and welding smaller tubing in place...

Good luck!

 

[wfo9]

And interestingly, even with $50,000 in mods to make it a baja truck, they decided to keep the KDSS.

You are totally confused. Read the article. They took a prototype trail edition to see if it could survive... They were not trying to build an ideal race truck.. They were trying to test a design

Two completely different things.

 

[wfo9]

It literally takes the ride from plush to rough right at that cusp of the kdss kicking "off" 10mph.... It's the kdss

Dude, be careful. You have pointed out a negative of KDSS... The forum is going to come down on you. LOL

Same if you point out any negative on these trucks or Toyota. This is not the most open minded group in the world. But what do you expect it is the internet after all.

You are probably on your own with coming up with a manual disable... I think it is very doable, but I don't think anyone has figured it out yet. If I had KDSS I would help you out....

 

[T5RUNNER]

You are totally confused. Read the article. They took a prototype trail edition to see if it could survive... They were not trying to build an ideal race truck.. They were trying to test a design.

I can read, even stock class trucks get extensive mods and they listed them right in the article. But now you are missing the point. They chose to use a KDSS truck for high speed desert racing, which shows that KDSS can do it just fine. Myself and others are trying to make the point that his solution probably lies elsewhere.

 

[msp]

I can read, even stock class trucks get extensive mods and they listed them right in the article. But now you are missing the point. They chose to use a KDSS truck for high speed desert racing, which shows that KDSS can do it just fine. Myself and others are trying to make the point that his solution probably lies elsewhere.

How many high-speed desert racing trucks need to go 100K miles on the road without any problems? I don't have my own pit crew. I did have a Trail with KDSS and a mild 5100 lift...can't get much milder. As others have indicated, it might be more trouble than it is worth to get the ride the OP wants with KDSS.

 

[T5RUNNER]

How many high-speed desert racing trucks need to go 100K miles on the road without any problems? I don't have my own pit crew. I did have a Trail with KDSS and a mild 5100 lift...can't get much milder. As others have indicated, it might be more trouble than it is worth to get the ride the OP wants with KDSS.

Er, okay?

 

[wfo9]

I can read, even stock class trucks get extensive mods and they listed them right in the article. But now you are missing the point. They chose to use a KDSS truck for high speed desert racing, which shows that KDSS can do it just fine. Myself and others are trying to make the point that his solution probably lies elsewhere.

Again, you are missing the point. They did not chose the truck for its racing capabilities. They chose the truck to test it for durability. It did great, but it proves nothing for your argument that KDSS was designed for desert racing. But I will say that many other have mistakenly fallen into your same line of thinking... and it does prove that it can hold up in those types of conditions.

However, it has nothing to do with the OPs issue.

Master technician Rich Garver and fabricator Sam Puleri stripped out and saved the essential items and recycled the non-critical interior bits. In keeping with Nishimura’s concept for a durability test, Rich carefully inspected and retained as many of the Rubicon-tested prototype parts as possible.

 

[Desert36]

Did some testing today.......... Pulling the fuse locked my kdss in highway mode, very stiff at 5mph and no change at moderate speed.... But! (With the fuse in) Unplugging the kdss module on the frame rail area locked mine in low speed mode!!!!!! So I could hit that 10-20mph and still have the more plush ride, the kdss dash light is lit up with either method and it turns right back off when plugged back in!, I can feel slightly more body roll on the road but I feel as if even though it stays in low speed mode and I get a softer ride, the valving in the system is only so big so at 25-30 it feels somewhat similar, but I also was testing with street pressure and it was a good test, can't wait to air down and have a day out on it... Driving into parking lots also felt softer on my typical run to the grocery store, so this will even help out the mall crawlers..����

Next is to wire in a switch to maybe the power wire going to the module so I don't need to take off the cover to change it, but it would really only be there if the kdss light gets irritating at night.

 

[Teephud]

Nice job! Would love to see some pics or a video. Thanks!

 

[borfoo3]

Did some testing today.......... Pulling the fuse locked my kdss in highway mode, very stiff at 5mph and no change at moderate speed.... But! (With the fuse in) Unplugging the kdss module on the frame rail area locked mine in low speed mode!!!!!! So I could hit that 10-20mph and still have the more plush ride, the kdss dash light is lit up with either method and it turns right back off when plugged back in!, I can feel slightly more body roll on the road but I feel as if even though it stays in low speed mode and I get a softer ride, the valving in the system is only so big so at 25-30 it feels somewhat similar, but I also was testing with street pressure and it was a good test, can't wait to air down and have a day out on it... Driving into parking lots also felt softer on my typical run to the grocery store, so this will even help out the mall crawlers..����

Next is to wire in a switch to maybe the power wire going to the module so I don't need to take off the cover to change it, but it would really only be there if the kdss light gets irritating at night.

Now that's what I call progress!!

If 4WD, ESC functions still work without triggering some sort of limp mode at speed, we have a winner.

 

[paulndot]

This is exactly the dipshittery I was trying to avoid good for you

LOL… Dipshittery. I'll quote you on that - know it's me when your ears are ringing!

 

[mrvandelay]

Have you considered that kdss is speed limited for a reason?


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[borfoo3]

Have you considered that kdss is speed limited for a reason?


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Sure there's risks of having no sway bar aid in a 5000lb vehicle trying to manuover at speed.. As in many mods, the user is taking a chance of some sort, and its a usually a good idea to know what you're getting yourself into.

I'm more concerned about whether disabling KDSS and bashing around at higher speeds can do harm to the KDSS components and lead to $$$$ repairs. Can't help but imagine those accumulators (cylinder/ piston) won't like it..

 

[mrvandelay]

I'm more concerned about whether disabling KDSS and bashing around at higher speeds can do harm to the KDSS components and lead to $$$$ repairs. Can't help but imagine those accumulators (cylinder/ piston) won't like it..

That'd be my concern as well.



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