P0420, yes, again... What sensor to replace?

swampy_swimmer

New member
I know it's been discussed countless times and I searched and read thru many of threads. I probably got lost in it.
Can someone give a clear definitive answer to what sensor to replace first?

It's Cat efficiency below threshold BANK 1.

Sooo, Bank 1 is the first cat out of manifold, right??

Should I replace upstream sensor Part: 234-9002?
Or Downstream: 234-4209 ???

Sorry, I'm just tired or reading thru old threads...
 
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Bank #1 refers to the side of the engine that has cylinder 1, bank 2 is the side of the engine that does not have cylinder 1 (this is all cars not just 4runners). and the code you have is pointing to the sensor before the cat which is the air/fuel sensor.
 
with a single exhaust pipe out the engine one cat converter the p0420 code will be bank 1 sensor 2. this is the sensor that detected a cat converter error signal which can be the sensor or the cat converter.

the bank 1 sensor 1 is the AF sensor . I would replace both sensors since this could be why the p0420 code was thrown.

excessive cold weather warm up idling can do this damage to the converter/af/o2 sensors. reset CEL after sensors install and if it returns that will mean the converter is damaged. could be contaminated by carbon/oil deposits due to poor combustion or just damn old.

I have replaced these in a 2007 V8 T4R. 80K miles ..

only use the denso parts.
 
Thank you ATX, but I'm not clear... if this code points to the AFR sensor before the cat, what's the point of doing manipulations to the rear O2 sensor?
And if I do that, wouldn't the problem still be there? It would just shield the bad sensor from taking accurate readings. Or no?
 
with a single exhaust pipe out the engine one cat converter the p0420 code will be bank 1 sensor 2. this is the sensor that detected a cat converter error signal which can be the sensor or the cat converter.

the bank 1 sensor 1 is the AF sensor . I would replace both sensors since this could be why the p0420 code was thrown.

excessive cold weather warm up idling can do this damage to the converter/af/o2 sensors. reset CEL after sensors install and if it returns that will mean the converter is damaged. could be contaminated by carbon/oil deposits due to poor combustion or just damn old.

I have replaced these in a 2007 V8 T4R. 80K miles ..

only use the denso parts.

Understood, but if I want to take the easy road and start with one sensor, which one would you suggest to start with? AFR or O2 at the rear?
 
Understood, but if I want to take the easy road and start with one sensor, which one would you suggest to start with? AFR or O2 at the rear?

the sensor work together which is why I suggested the replacing of both.

I also must say any of these with over 130K miles should be replaced.

if these sensors are OEM originals and well over 130K could be the converter is NG.

using a scan tool that can make charting of these sensors signals the downstream sensor must shift slowly from high to low this is the reaction of the converter handling the gases passing..

The upstream af sensor reports to the PCM the fuel mixture ratio , which should be close to 14-1.. if that is wrong on its sensing then it can create a false cat code.

even if these sensors are replaced and the code comes back then replacing the converter is the proper procedure as you do not want to install a new converter with bad sensors controlling the fuel ratios.
 
Got ya. Here's what I got from the reader. I need to check how the temp spikes/downs there too, but that's what I have for now.
I guess both of them are bad....
 

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There are some things you want to do before replacing a sensor. First check for any physical damage to your cats. A big dent or split will tell you if you are wasting time worrying about sensors--it's a dead cat. Smell your exhaust. Rotten egg smell means dead cat. Listen. If it sounds like the inside of the cat is rattling around, dead cat.

The next thing you want to do is check carefully for any exhaust leaks between the rear sensor and the manifold. Gaskets on our trucks are reaching an age when they fail, and can often be a cheap fix to kill your P0420.

Once you have ruled out the above, then think about sensors. P0420 does not tell you if it is rear sensor, front sensor, rear cat or front cat. It just tells you you have a problem.

In fact, it is pretty rare for a front sensor to set a stand-alone P0420. It is much more likely to set other codes. The only thing the rear sensor does, is to trigger the p0420, so if you are going to do just one, try that one first, especially if you have no idea about the ages of the sensors. I did this with my first P0420, and it worked. I knew that my front had less than 20k on it, so it was a safe bet. Many others have lucked out doing the rear, too.

If they are the same age, the front one usually dies first, because they are in a more hostile environment. I would think that most have already been done once. I just replaced my front for the second time at 170k.

If they are the same age, the other one won't last much longer. If you have access to a live scanner, and someone who knows what they are doing, they can look at the voltage curves from each sensor and come to a judgment about which is bad.

The one thing I would NOT do, is replace the front sensor first. Makes zero sense.

It makes sense to replace sensors before spending money on cats, because you want new sensors with your new cats. Anyone who installs them will insist on it.
 
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Mine is of 2002 and has 135K on it. I have almost full history of the truck from previous owner and it doesn't look like any of O2 sensors were replaced.
 
There are some things you want to do before replacing a sensor. First check for any physical damage to your cats. A big dent or split will tell you if you are wasting time worrying about sensors--it's a dead cat. Smell your exhaust. Rotten egg smell means dead cat. Listen. If it sounds like the inside of the cat is rattling around, dead cat.

The next thing you want to do is check carefully for any exhaust leaks between the rear sensor and the manifold. Gaskets on our trucks are reaching an age when they fail, and can often be a cheap fix to kill your P0420.

How does one check for the exhaust leaks? Do I just look if there's no smoke comes out from between the pipe joints/gaskets?
 
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How does one check for the exhaust leaks? Do I just look if there's no smoke comes out from between the pipe joints/gaskets?

You really can't tell just by looking unless it is REALLY bad. And it doesn't take much.

I use a really thin piece of paper. Those top copies from manual credit card receipts are great. Too bad they don't use them anymore. (I have paper files going back decades, so I just steal one of those.) Then hold it up to each of the joints and see if it moves when the engine is running.

Others like to plug a Shop-Vac in reverse into the tail pipe with the engine off and then look-feel for air leaks. I've never tried it but it sounds good.
 
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I guess, that I should have add that I mostly get the CEL when I drive where more power involved. Like on sand, or on the highway accelerating past 2000-2500 rpm.
 
Quick update: replaced downstream sensor with Denso. Drove 40 miles so far, run the scan tool. No codes, Cat - Ready; O2 sensor -Ready, HO2 - Ready.

Evap - Not Ready. What does it mean?? What is it? Can I pass inspection with it?
 
Quick update: replaced downstream sensor with Denso. Drove 40 miles so far, run the scan tool. No codes, Cat - Ready; O2 sensor -Ready, HO2 - Ready.

Evap - Not Ready. What does it mean?? What is it? Can I pass inspection with it?

Well, it means you are good as far as exhaust emissions go. Evap is your Evaporative emissions system, and that test can take a while, at least going through a full tank of gas.

New Jersey will pass you with a Not Ready on Evaporative but not on Catalytic Converter (to my surprise). I didn't expect to pass with Evap Not Ready but I did. It went ready on the drive home. I don't know what NY State does. Many states will allow ONE Not Ready but NYS tends to be a pain.
 
You can say that again...
I googled it. There's a special driving pattern needs to be performed. Tomorrow I guess...

I've had to do this twice on my 4runner & both times I had to do the drive patterns exactly as it's stated in the TSB. It also took multiple attempts of following the exact steps before it was "ready".
 
I've had to do this twice on my 4runner & both times I had to do the drive patterns exactly as it's stated in the TSB. It also took multiple attempts of following the exact steps before it was "ready".

Did it this morning once, still not ready. Decided to take it for smog test and passed. In NY with one monitor not ready you can pass.
 
Did it this morning once, still not ready. Decided to take it for smog test and passed. In NY with one monitor not ready you can pass.

I've been told this by the emissions guy also. My OBDII scan tool will also state ready as long as there is not more than one monitor not ready.
 

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