Performance Upgrades

[Atlanta_man]

Nitrous Oxide injection works good. My mechanic friend makes money putting those systems on then taking them off for guys with more money than brains. Soon as car owner has a crash the N system has to come off quick before the insurance adjuster gets a look at the crash damage.

 

[MikeInNH]

Nitrous Oxide injection works good.

Yup...but be careful with that. Not set up properly...it can literally blow up your engine. And it's only for short bursts..NOT for sustained long runs.

 

[boondoggle]

What if I just get a NOS sticker? Any benefit?

Kidding.

A co-worker of mine flew down to AZ and picked up one of those Dodge Magnum SRT8s with the 6.1l Hemi. On the drive back to Denver he found this little switch and couldn't figure out what it was for. He kept flipping it and nothing happened.

Upon his arrival at home he was checking out his new/used car and when he looked in the spare tire well, there was no spare tire. Just an empty NOS tank. I can only imagine how surprised he'd have been if it hadn't been empty when he flipped that switch! Surprise!

Looking under the hood it's easy to see (by the pink anodized aluminum connector) where it goes into the intake. He's not a car guy though. Most of us probably would have spotted it.

I keep trying to talk him into getting it filled at least once (it's not my car!).

 

[MikeInNH]

I only knew one guy who had NOS in his car. After about a year of using it too much....he had to rebuild his engine.

 

[settytb]

NOS gets complicated with differences between wet and dry kits. The wet kits mix it with your fuel and are more expensive but much better controlled and less likely to blow you up. Dry kits are very cheap and very likely to blow you up! A small 50 shot or so should be fine but again you're risking a lot of stuff for a little laughing gas that makes you go fast. I would avoid it personally.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Even engines built for NOS get a lot of wear and tear compared to say a Turbo. NOS hits the engine pretty hard (dry kits as was pointed out a little harder punch to them)

Keep in mind, that increasing performance doesn't always mean increased longevity, there's a reason they tear down and rebuild race engines after only a few races.

 

[boondoggle]

Seems like a NOS boost might be a bad idea while 4wheeling.

Nothing like uncontrollably hauling ass up a boulder field. Gnarly.

Might hit some sweet jumps though!

YouTube - phillymon 4runner jump

And one of my personal faves.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5kMTHwjy6Z8

 

[TRDCal]

Wait....I'm confused!

At first you said this:

All they do is make the company selling them richer and the people buying them poorer.

The only aftermarket improvements that really work is turbo or super charger.

Now your saying this:

As I said..there are SOME vehicles that MAY benefit from some of the aftermarket add-ons

I'm not trying to pick sides here but you don't need an engineering degree notice something fishy here. I'm not going to comment anymore on this but I'll keep an eye on the thread in case you need latter to get out of the hole your digging.

 

[SkylineGTRracer]

All I can say is that the power I am making is in no way in part due to the mods I made to my truck, I just put gypsy tears in my gas tank every time I fill up.

 

[Whitebeauty]

All I can say is that the power I am making is in no way in part due to the mods I made to my truck, I just put gypsy tears in my gas tank every time I fill up.

lol.....:surfer:.......:banana:

 

[MikeInNH]

Wait....I'm confused!

At first you said this:


Now your saying this:


I'm not trying to pick sides here but you don't need an engineering degree notice something fishy here. I'm not going to comment anymore on this but I'll keep an eye on the thread in case you need latter to get out of the hole your digging.

When you take things out of context...yes.

In the first quote that was in direct response to the add-ons for 4runners.

In the second it was a general response to ALL vehicles. I noticed that you only cut and paste PART of what I said.

Let me repeat...SOME vehicles MAY have SOME benefit from aftermarket add-ons...but NOT to the extent of a 20% increase which is being claimed.

I stand by what I said. Prove me wrong.

Wanted to add to this...got interrupted earlier.

I said that SOME cars MAY benefit from add-ons. I have no idea if there are. And if there are any...I'll show you a car that was rushed to market and poorly designed.

Manufacturers can design a complete car with remarkable accuracy on a computer. CAD/CAM systems have become that sophisticated. There's no more guess work like there was some 30+ years ago. My High-end Dell laptop today is 100 times for powerful then the huge mainframes built 30 years ago. High-end servers are over 1000 times more powerful. That makes designing vehicles a lot easier and less chance of error. When the computer modeling is done on a vehicle they know exactly how much hp and torque and what the quarter mile numbers will be....(IF IT'S MANUFACTURED TO THE DESIGN SPECIFICATIONS). So the chances of ANY car benefiting from ANY add-on is very very low. There may be SOME minute differences in performance with certain add-ons...but usually no where near the cost. There has been a lot of testing by the EPA and other sources like Popular Mechanics and even Popular Science...and they haven't found ONE of those cheap add-ons that benefit any car....ARE THERE ANY??? MAYBE. Obviously there are too many cars and too many variables to say for certain 100% that NO car will benefit.

There ARE PROVEN performance add-ons like NOS or Turbo/Super chargers that do work. But they are NOT cheap. But the simple changes like K&N filters or rewriting the tables on the EPROM chip...or a tuned exhaust system...MINOR differences if any. But that doesn't make it NOT fun to do. But don't expect any MAJOR differences in performance.

 

[SkylineGTRracer]

My truck with an air intake, intake manifold spacer (not a TB spacer), tuning, 255 lph fuel pump, and long tube headers.

This second dyno is for a rough reference point showing stock numbers of an FJ and with a little bit of mods. The FJ has a manual transmission.

Friends xrunner with a TRD intake and NST pulleys.

And FYI this all have the same engine, the 1GR, but the xrunner has a 3.15 gear ratio while my truck and the FJ have a 3.73.

 

[rebelbowtie]

This graph shows a stock LM7 hp/tq curve and the same LM7 with nothing done except a 93 octane EFI Live tune.

Obviously not significant power gains and obviously photoshopped...

 

[rebelbowtie]

Kinda sad that a 1GR puts down almost the same numbers as an LM7 though lol

 

[rebelbowtie]

Another prime example is the LQ4 and LQ9 are part for part identical minus tuning and the LQ9 has 45hp difference from the factory. The difference is one is tuned to run 87 octane with heavily re****ed timing and the other requires 91 or 93 octane with a more advance timing curve.

 

[MikeInNH]

Obviously not significant power gains and obviously photoshopped...

And OBVIOUSLY directly from the manufacturer themselves. You do know what Impartial means???

I can show you similar results on a CERTIFIED Perpetual Motion Machine. According to all tests it generates 20% MORE power then what's put in. But of course these tests were conducted by the manufacturer themselves. And ANYONE with even the slightest knowledge of Thermodynamics knows that it's IMPOSSIBLE.

Here are a few links on the Perpetual Motion Generators/Machines. All about the same pseudo science level as the so-called Wonder devices that increase power and increase gas mileage...Some of these companies are looking for investors.


https://sites.google.com/site/magneticpowergeneratorsite/

Perpetual Motion Generator

The New Expertise Wave – Perpetual Motion Generator | INFO NEWS

Now here's REAL science.

Free Energy Debunking - HvWiki

Perpetual motion — nonsense for over 100 years | Skulls in the Stars

The Latest Perpetual Motion Fraud - Dan's Wild Wild Science Journal - AGU Blogosphere

 

[aha2988]

And OBVIOUSLY directly from the manufacturer themselves. You do know what Impartial means???

I can show you similar results on a CERTIFIED Perpetual Motion Machine. According to all tests it generates 20% MORE power then what's put in. But of course these tests were conducted by the manufacturer themselves. And ANYONE with even the slightest knowledge of Thermodynamics knows that it's IMPOSSIBLE.

Here are a few links on the Perpetual Motion Generators/Machines. All about the same pseudo science level as the so-called Wonder devices that increase power and increase gas mileage...Some of these companies are looking for investors.


https://sites.google.com/site/magneticpowergeneratorsite/

Perpetual Motion Generator

The New Expertise Wave – Perpetual Motion Generator | INFO NEWS

Now here's REAL science.

Free Energy Debunking - HvWiki

Perpetual motion — nonsense for over 100 years | Skulls in the Stars

The Latest Perpetual Motion Fraud - Dan's Wild Wild Science Journal - AGU Blogosphere

WOW, lol im gone for the weekend and mike goes from performance upgrades to perpetual motion lmao.. what soap box are you trying to stand on mike. It seems you have made your point that your against performance exhausts, CAI's, and computer chips/programmers. Also you've successfully informed us that superchargers and turbo chargers will be the best performance upgrade. It doesnt seem like you have anything else to add to this thread thats helpfull or positive. Thanks mike for your imput but I feel your taking this thread way to far

... perpetual motion rotflmao...:lmao:

your trying to compare something thats completly bogus to products that have successfully worked to improve power, performance, mpg's, and track times. I know I know you want to see proof we've attempted to show you... one guy has even showed you his personal dyno sheets, yet you still consider anything besides a supercharger, turbo charger, or high profile cam shaft to be worthless. thank you for sharing your opinion multiple multiple times; however, mike its just your opinion that doesnt make it a physical law theory or anything close to factual statements. you havent show any proof of negative effects from exhausts, chips, or CAI's other than bogus opinionated articals provided by the EPA (which wouldnt want you to change the emissions at all to begin with why would they even come close to recommending products that would negate what there purpose is?)

You even told me yourself dont by into what manufacturers are telling me blah blah blah.. are you not yourself buying into what the EPA wants you to believe is it posible that perhaps they've got you manipulated.. my biggest question is you put faith into all these opinonated reports, articles, and "self proclaimed independent tests", yet your toyota brothers on this forum are informing you of personal experiences in which they themselves have seen improvements and you show us no faith what so ever. you call us young, immature, nieve, illogical, undereducated, and as well i feel you consider us ignorant. you even went as far as to disrespect someone who serves for our national coast gaurd. (I'm sure he would like to pass your name onto rescue divers to prevent any future rescues you may need. some bridges arnt worth burning over differences of opinions my friend).

I understand though you've owned your 2003 since it was brand new off the dealership, you've had 9 years experience with the 4th gen setup. I understand you feel your all knowing when it comes to the 4th gen 4runner you are indeed an elder to the 4th gen ownership. as well to top things off you have engineering in your background you are indeed an intelegent and successful person. however, This in no way means you know everything about 4runners. Nor does it mean you have the experience, knowledge, or personal accounts for what is available performance wise as well as each and every effect all the products out there have alone or paired with mulitple upgrades.

By all means please continue to share the valuble information you know and understand about these trucks i've seen some of your post to be helpful in other threads; however, please refrain from beating dead horses! When you find that your posts on a thread are only negative, argumentative, and insulting posts, i believe the better man would stand up and say to each there own. Not repeat the same negative opinions over and over and over again.

 

[MikeInNH]

your trying to compare something thats completly bogus to products that have successfully worked to improve power, performance, mpg's, and track times.

NO...YOU and Bowtie say they worked...And so far the ONLY proof you have is from testing done by the manufacturers themselves...NO INDEPENDENT PROOF WHAT-SO-EVER.

That is EXACTLY the same as the perpetual motion machine nonsense. NO INDEPENDENT PROOF WHAT-SO-EVER. Only proof is done by the manufacturers themselves.

You keep saying it's TRUE...but have yet to show me ANY PROOF WHAT-SO-EVER.

Some 30 years ago the tobacco manufacturers had independent studies conducted for them to PROVE that cigarette smoking was NOT BAD for you. (NOTE: If they are bought and paid for by the party selling the product they are NOT truly independent are they). They had PROOF (on the same level of proof I've seen so far) that showed cigarette smoking was fine. They had testimony from countless people who smoked for 30+ years without ever seeing the inside of a hospital.

Now is anyone here stupid enough to believe the smoking isn't bad for you???

It's the same pseudo science. You want to believe it...GREAT. More power to you.

 

[SkylineGTRracer]

I have shown proof and I'm no manufacture.

 

[rebelbowtie]

That dyno sheet was not done by a manufacture it's an actual dyno done by regular people done in front of my eyes. I can dig up some dyno sheets and video from when I attended APR dyno day and BBQ of cars tuned before an after all in front of my eyes and hundreds of other people. The facts don't lie, you asked for proof an received it.