*Please Help* Holes in frame rail - pics included

[4runherpow]

11/13 Update**

Some pretty bad news. Went digging around this afternoon to see what I could find in the way of more holes, etc. It’s really bad.

I found 4-5 more holes, massive corrosion. It’s now obvious the used car dealer in Ohio that sold me the truck three years ago covered a bunch of stuff up with bonding and coating.

The rear where the bumper covers the frame, and the entire metal piece that holds the rear bumpstop on the drivers side has rusted out of the vehicle.

The problem seems invasive, and terminal.

I’m super bummed. Just totally crushed by this.

One of the holes I found is right along the weld underneath the frame as in arches up to the front passenger side. She seems unsafe to drive at the moment.

I feel that welding is just putting a bandaid on flesh wounds EVERYWHERE.

I feel as if a new frame is the only option.

Has anyone, I mean anyone done the frame swap or know of a shop that can do this in the mid-Atlantic??

Who feels she’s unsafe? Will Toyota help? This is BS

 

[rdruss]

I don't think it's unsafe at this moment for on road use as long as all your spots where suspension component brackets are welded to frame are solid. Such as all the rear bars, shock mounts, front crossmember where LCA attaches, etc.

Yes, a frame replacement would be ideal, but it's probably a long shot, or will be big $$$ if you can find someone willing to tackle it.

Google 4Runner frame replacement on youtube and you'll find some videos.

 

[4runherpow]

I don't think it's unsafe at this moment for on road use as long as all your spots where suspension component brackets are welded to frame are solid. Such as all the rear bars, shock mounts, front crossmember where LCA attaches, etc.

Yes, a frame replacement would be ideal, but it's probably a long shot, or will be big $$$ if you can find someone willing to tackle it.

Google 4Runner frame replacement on youtube and you'll find some videos.

Thanks. It's kind of the front A-arm hole along the weld that freaks me out. And has anyone ever had the entire rear bump stop bracket come out?! It literally was hanging so I just tore it off. Do I not need that, lol? Saw a couple videos. Really extensive but you dont think someone would do it for like $5-6K?

I don't know. It also had a ton of rust on top of the frame. The part you can't even see. I pulled like, slabs of rust flakes the size of my hand from out of there. How would I even treat that area.

Oh, and one of the straps/bracket that holds the fuel tank inside of its metal shield it broken.

I still haven't heard of anyone recommending a good fab/frame shop in Northern, Va to do this work. There has to be someone interested in making a few thousands bucks.

 

[4runherpow]

I don't think it's unsafe at this moment for on road use as long as all your spots where suspension component brackets are welded to frame are solid. Such as all the rear bars, shock mounts, front crossmember where LCA attaches, etc.

Yes, a frame replacement would be ideal, but it's probably a long shot, or will be big $$$ if you can find someone willing to tackle it.

Google 4Runner frame replacement on youtube and you'll find some videos.

What do you think of the bump stop mount rusting out? It's completely gone now. Do I technically need it? I guess I could have another one welded in?

 

[rdruss]

What do you think of the bump stop mount rusting out? It's completely gone now. Do I technically need it? I guess I could have another one welded in?

Not sure how important rear bump stop is on road vehicle, someone else can comment on that. But something you might want to consider is looking at some of the "For Sale" V8, 4th gens on here that are for sale. There is an '06 or '08 on here for $9K with less than 200K miles and if it has a solid undercarriage might be worth considering and then part yours out. Just a thought.

 

[4runherpow]

Not sure how important rear bump stop is on road vehicle, someone else can comment on that. But something you might want to consider is looking at some of the "For Sale" V8, 4th gens on here that are for sale. There is an '06 or '08 on here for $9K with less than 200K miles and if it has a solid undercarriage might be worth considering and then part yours out. Just a thought.

Thanks. Might be an option.

Would be a shame because I’ve put a lot of maintenance into her when I purchased and over past couple years.

20k ago
-new timing belt, water pump, serp
-spark plugs
-front half-shafts
-front wheel bearings
-front and rear calipers
-front discs
-front uca AND lca (oh yea)
-bilsteins all around
-springs, bushings, etc
-exhaust
-secondary air pump workaround fix
-complete trans fluid exchange
-front and rear diff, transfer case fluid change
-coolant and brake fluid
-Mobil 1 oil every 5k

This month
-oil change
-factory coolant flush
-full driveline fluid change, trans drain and fill
-spark plugs, engine filter, cab filter

There’s more. She drives fantastic for 180k. Needs exhaust manifolds, rear hatch (rust bubbles), and a new frame apparently.

 

[4runherpow]

Is anyone participating in this class action suit for 4runners?

Toyota 4Runner - Bell Legal Group

I asked for them to include me. Maybe we get some traction on this.

 

[rdruss]

Is anyone participating in this class action suit for 4runners?

Toyota 4Runner - Bell Legal Group

I asked for them to include me. Maybe we get some traction on this.

I think a lot of us are, but with low expectations!

 

[MikeinNH67]

Can someone chime in on this…

So used frame for sale, $1000. No idea if it’s strip down, condition etc. but assuming it’s a good rust free frame and can be shipped and a reasonable cost - who’s done the swap and is it reasonable to think it’s better long term?

2004 Toyota 4runner Frame 4x4, 6 cylinder (OE Used) |
$1,027.00, 500-50525, D300001030F, El Paso, Texas (FREE Shipping)

$1000 frame
$500 ship (guessing)
$ ??? Install

Any major downsides I’m missing here?

Just thinking even I fix these two frame holes for $1000, odds are in next 5-10 years there’s going to be at least few more that pop up so that’s probably another $3-5k over that period, plus the aggregation of looking for them all the time.

Would love to hear thoughts

Well this could be a good idea. Some of them list free shipping but not sure how accurate that is. A Southern frame would be a good fix for this. Looking at your latest pictures is disheartening, mainly because there's so many holes and you don't even know what's in store behind the rear bumper. Pretty sure there's some YT videos of folks swapping the frame. Don't be concerned about the bump stop as mine has been gone for years. Nothing looks dangerous as of yet but who knows what else is lurking in there.

I had a tank strap break too, that can be a pain to replace. Someone on here replaced them recently if looking for info.

 

[4runherpow]

[MENTION=101325]rdruss[/MENTION]

Heck yea, man. Toyota needs to address this! I'll donate some time if need be but have very low expectations as well.

Update on repair options:

Took her too Off-road Innovations in Winchester, VA. Nice crew they got there. John walked through the underside with me. Good news is that not too much more in way of suspicious spots that need immediate attention. His initial estimate/recommendation - which I'll revisit some of this - are as follows:

-Safe T Cap both front A-arms. This is where I'll need to chat about "why" both. The front passenger perhaps is bad enough to justify a long section like Safe T Cap. The drivers side just looks like it needs a small plate.

Both front safety caps and labor - $2,400 (16 hours labor)

-Wire wheel entire frame, coat with rust inhibitor, seal with POR-15. I noted that issues can arise from inside out, which they are well aware of. However, he said that they do not have a decent way of removing debris from inside (cost prohibitive if they attempted this). But by doing the rust mitigation and seal on the outside a) they drop the fuel tank so they would be able to fix that strap without extra labor, and b) it will help at least slow down the outside progression, plus make the frame look consistent if an inspector was wondering about a repair job.

$1,400 to do this.

I would try to bring this down to $3,500 out the door. I do think this is high. But my area seems to be elevated on cost, for everything really.

One of my thoughts is the passenger side does not need a Safe T Cap and that time+materials should be cut down. My goal is to get all this under $3K. This also does not address the holes in the rear bumper area or the bumpstop. MY plan for the rear holes is to metal plaster patch them after they complete their work. My thought is, yes, they are frame homes but they are in the edge of the rear bumper area where there's no suspension parts connected, etc. They are not really load bearing. So I'll fill them and move on.

Am I thinking along the right lines here?
[MENTION=298412]MikeinNH67[/MENTION]

I'm thinking that I need to get another 3-4 years out of this frame. Then I'll probably have around 210-225K on the whole vehicle. If I do well financially, I'll give her to a place like this Off-Road Innovations and say, Here's $40-50k take her for next 6 months and go new frame, rebuild the FU-Z (325hp+), entire suspension rebuild, repaint, restore interior. Basically try and make her as new as possible. That's the dream at least, lol

 

[rdruss]

Rust repairs are expensive unless you can weld yourself, we're at the mercy of those who can! If you are going to spend the $$ to get your frame repaired I would definitely get the rear bump stop back in place.

 

[AuSeeker]

[MENTION=101325]rdruss[/MENTION]

Heck yea, man. Toyota needs to address this! I'll donate some time if need be but have very low expectations as well.

Update on repair options:

Took her too Off-road Innovations in Winchester, VA. Nice crew they got there. John walked through the underside with me. Good news is that not too much more in way of suspicious spots that need immediate attention. His initial estimate/recommendation - which I'll revisit some of this - are as follows:

-Safe T Cap both front A-arms. This is where I'll need to chat about "why" both. The front passenger perhaps is bad enough to justify a long section like Safe T Cap. The drivers side just looks like it needs a small plate.

Both front safety caps and labor - $2,400 (16 hours labor)

-Wire wheel entire frame, coat with rust inhibitor, seal with POR-15. I noted that issues can arise from inside out, which they are well aware of. However, he said that they do not have a decent way of removing debris from inside (cost prohibitive if they attempted this). But by doing the rust mitigation and seal on the outside a) they drop the fuel tank so they would be able to fix that strap without extra labor, and b) it will help at least slow down the outside progression, plus make the frame look consistent if an inspector was wondering about a repair job.

$1,400 to do this.

I would try to bring this down to $3,500 out the door. I do think this is high. But my area seems to be elevated on cost, for everything really.

One of my thoughts is the passenger side does not need a Safe T Cap and that time+materials should be cut down. My goal is to get all this under $3K. This also does not address the holes in the rear bumper area or the bumpstop. MY plan for the rear holes is to metal plaster patch them after they complete their work. My thought is, yes, they are frame homes but they are in the edge of the rear bumper area where there's no suspension parts connected, etc. They are not really load bearing. So I'll fill them and move on.

Am I thinking along the right lines here?

[MENTION=298412]MikeinNH67[/MENTION]

I'm thinking that I need to get another 3-4 years out of this frame. Then I'll probably have around 210-225K on the whole vehicle. If I do well financially, I'll give her to a place like this Off-Road Innovations and say, Here's $40-50k take her for next 6 months and go new frame, rebuild the FU-Z (325hp+), entire suspension rebuild, repaint, restore interior. Basically try and make her as new as possible. That's the dream at least, lol

Good luck on the repairs, I hope it goes well!

As far as 3-4 years down the road and dumping $40-$50K into a total restoration, I would instead invest that money into another 4th Gens that has a good frame and low miles for about half that much money with plenty left over to do whatever upgrades you want....or for that much money you can get a low mileage 5th Gen.

 

[cosmo4r]

Your labor cost for welding sounds a little high IMO, same with the #of hours. I'd be curious what a complete frame swap costs at that point.

Also, in my opinion you don't really need safe-t-caps for something like this. You can do just as good of a repair, if not better using flat bar cutoffs (nearly free). I did some pretty extensive rust repair on my 3rd gen. Here are a few pictures that might give you an idea of what can be done.

 

[rdruss]

Here's a couple youtube videos to watch:
"4th Gen 4Runner Frame Center Section Rust Repair Kit-Taboo Customs"
" SafeTCap Install on 4-Runner"

 

[MikeinNH67]

Dang, that's a ton of dough. I just think of all the tools I can buy with it and doing the work myself.

My opinion is if you are paying someone to do the work then I would price the labor for the clean southern frame swap. Even if it costs a bit more you should never have to touch it again. Sadly these close to 20 year old frames that have lived in the rust belt all their lives have a limited life span, you just don't know where the next hole will show up.

I also signed up for the class action suit but doubt anything will come about.

 

[4runherpow]

Thanks for all of the replies and ideas. Love the creativity and how people really put the effort in to keeping their trucks running.

I thought the price was high too and I did a little more digging into the estimate. One thing that puzzled me was the SafeTcap recommendation for the driver side hole. The driver side A-arm only has a hole on the side of the rail about a silver dollar size. It’s pretty clear in the pics I posted that the metal around the hole seems pretty solid. I brought this up to the service manager who walked under the truck with me and wrote the estimate. I was a little disappointed with the customer service, tbh.

When I brought up that I thought a SafeTcap might be a little over kill for that side and that I was fine with the passenger side, but I wanted to explore most cost effective options for the driver side. I had been told by two other fabricators that the driver side could be fixed with a plate and be solid. The service manager at OffRoad Innovations was not willing to explore this option. He couldn’t give a reason why, he just said that he was more comfortable with an entire cap. The two other fabricators are booked till spring.

Of course, this is probably another $1k in labor additional than doing a plate. I addressed this with him and he basically ignored my comment and just said they are experts and he’s not changing his mind.

Disappointing, I was ready to pull the trigger and go with them but their unwillingness to even take another look or address the fact that they were the only one out of three opinions that said a SafeTcap on that was was a must.

Again, any suggestions on welders in northern va? Lol

Happy thanksgiving everyone

 

[rdruss]

For enjoyment watch youtube video " Total Frame Replacement in Less than 8 Minutes!"
Read the notes by the dealer in comments, they name the dealership, technician and time it took: 2 days!! This is done on an '06 Sequoia. Even if it took 4 days, that would be a deal IMO!

 

[Blackwatch]

Are there drain holes on the frames? I have 2 holes on the passenger side of my 06 right under front seat that look like drain holes with some rust around them.

 

[rdruss]

Yes, there are some drain holes, probably not enough! Rust around the ones under your pass side door probably being aggravated by your AC drain that pukes right on top of the frame in engine compartment and then the condensate follows the frame down to where it collects under the pass side door. Re-route that line.

 

[4runherpow]

[MENTION=101325]rdruss[/MENTION]

That video is awesome! This might be my new backup plan. I’ll have to call them and get some info.

Does anyone have thoughts on adhesive bonding? Given the size of my holes I think I might be a candidate. Apparently, the adhesive technology has really gotten stronger over the last few years. This article says that welding may work but adhesives are becoming more popular.

Thoughts?

Adhesive Bonding or Welding? The Answer May Surprise You - Wiley Metal