Poor mileage on 4G, would you participate in a suit?

[NCSCOTT]

I am an OEM guy, but here are things I've noticed that impact mileage-

Tire brand- I just switched to Continental Cross Contacts, and suffered a 3mpg loss. I was previously getting the EPA mileage.

Tire pressure- I know that tires can handle additional pressure, so I run about 40psi in mine. mpg still sucks.

Driving style- Sometimes, I just gotta be the first guy off the light. But mostly, I'm a light-footed driver.

The point- If mileage was one of my considerations at the time of purchase, I'd be rolling a Prius. I own a motorcycle that I use as my commuter, and my 4Runner serves as a backup, a grocery getter, and as my weekend kayak hauler.

I agree it can be painful at fuel stops though. :wow:

100% agree!!

I had same issue with those POS continentals!! They would never balance right, Flat spotted after sitting for a weekend, completely wornout to the wearbars at 35K miles for a 65k warranty tire. They did hold the road well and had great wet weather traction. Discount tire gave me a $328 prorated warranty towards my new tires!! Which were NOT Continentials!!

Oh Ya!! Mileage lawsuit... No Way!!

 

[ronsta]

What don't you get? There is no problem anywhere that is as widespread as you're making it out to be.

Go to a dealer that knows their ****.

Does anyone know any dealers in th NYC/NJ area who know their ****? It sure as heck isn’t bay ridge Toyota who charged $100 to have a tech sit in my truck and play with the 4wd knob (it wouldn’t go to 4wd). Guess what the verdict was? Weather got warmer, it engaged ( I knocked on the actuator with some wood) and I’m also out $100. Not sure where you live but dealers tend to have a bad rep.

I find it strange that you're getting worse mileage now that the vehicle is "broken in." Most of the time when I see mileage complaints it relates to new cars that haven't been broken in. I think a common idea is that 10,000 miles is "broken in." This, however, seems backwards to me. I would expect you to get better mileage after 3 years, not worse, despite your monster tires.
I don't know why you're experiencing a drop in mpg, especially if you don't drive it hard.
What size wheels are you running? stock 17s? YES
Is there additional weight? cargo, bull bar, etc? NO
Where do you live? high altitude? NO, SEA LEVEL
Do you sit in a lot of traffic? highway or city driving? NO TRAFFIC, AT WORST A MIX OF 50/50
Do you off-raod? YES ( I MAKE SURE ATLEAST ONE SIDE OF THE TRUCK GOES INTO THE DIRT IF I GET A CHANCE )
Has a mechanic looked over the car to see if anything is out of whack? YES, HAD A MECHANIC (also owns a v6 4th gen) run it over with an OBD2 scanner, nothing wrong. His truck is sucking up gas also & he thinks its running pristine ( he bought it certified used so doesn’t know any better).

I have to ay that I think you're idea of a law suit is a bit silly though. I bought the 4Runner for what it can do. And getting great mpg was not on that list... YES I AGREE, just want the MPGs back. For those of us who are experiencing this issue we all know something is wrong with the trucks and that’s fine but shouldn’t it through a check engine light or some sort of code? I don’t want it to turn into a catastrophic failure where a CEL and a $5 part would have fixed it.

I like your style.
As suggested, a competent and willing mechanic might be able to find something causing your low mpg numbers. Because you used to get good mileage, it seems like degraded performance is due to a worn or failing component. This is pretty typical of all vehicles, performance decreases over time due to use and degradation of materials. Off the top of my head, it could be:

• spark plugs CHANGED
• air filter CLEAN
• throttle body DIDN’T CHECK THIS
• maf CLEANED ABOUT 5K AGO
• calipers NOT FROZEN (WHEELS TURN FREELY UP ON LIFT)
• alignment DOESN’T PULL
• axle shafts LUBED
• wheel bearing
• diffs/fluid FRONT/REAR UNCHANGED, NO TOWING
• engine oil M1-30 EVERY 5K
• various sensors

Hell, you could even have something wrong with your ecu causing all of this. My point here is that it could be anything causing low mpgs. While 4Runners have a reputation for reliability, they are machines after all. The titanic was unsinkable, and we all know how that turned out. Kind of a far-reaching analogy but hopefully you pick up what I'm laying down.

I understand it could be anything, just wish it would throw a code. I would’ve thought a 4th gen would be able to throw a code for something as significant (to me) as this.

Ronsta, I know your pain.
I have a stock 2006 4.7L V8 SE. Its getting 12.2 MPG avg. Ive grown to accept my SUV and its lack of ECO/GREEN ways.
By stock in mean, I have a "few mods".

Few mods…ROFL, you funny! (with a Mr. Chao accent from Hang Over)
Toyota 4Runner Forum - View Poll Results
According to this thread you are the 2% of v8 owners getting low mileage so you know how I feel. But the thread doesn’t take into account stock truck, light mod/heavy mod etc. My poll is around 10% now and that doesn’t include those who ARE having MPG issues, only those who WOULD participate in a suit. So yes maybe the poll wasn’t done correctly, BOLO for another one (less litigious this time).

my v6 gets 19 driving around town, and momo.75 can vouch for me in saying that Birmingham is second only to San Francisco in the amount of hills/mountains we have to navigate in our suburbs. Maybe you've just got a dud or need to check up on maintenance, no biggy, good luck with it!

Yea 19 MPG would be great. A dud? I bought a Toyota bc there aren’t supposed to be any!

All valid points my friend. Sorry I came off like an ass.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do and I hope it works out in your favor. Just remember.....

Zach

Ps: nice choice on the pants

No worries bud, If I were you and saw the same poster ranting on and on and on about an issue (and I have but you don’t know till it’s you) I’d be irritated too but it doesn’t help him/her by getting negative feedback saying how annoying s/he is. There may or may not be ~10% of 4th gen v6 owners out there having this issue, who knows… but maybe putting some attn to this issue will help find a fix for it & thus saving all some $ that we could eventually use to put back into our economy, saving the earth ( it’s natural resources), saving our ozone, etc etc… (I know, corny but true). 10% of 10,000 (lowball) 4th gen v6 owners would be 1,000 trucks/owners in the country saving $.

Another forum member was having problems with his V6 mileage. I remember this response to the thread: Gist: check O2 sensors. OP, you participated in that thread, did you have them checked? Sounds as though mileage means a lot to you. So then:

Guaranteed to improve mileage:
1) Change driving style LIGHT FOOTED
2) Go back to OEM tires DUNFLOPS…
3) Stop with ridiculous idea of a CAL (won't improve mileage, but will improve your level of stress) YES
4) If above doesn't work, visit Toyota and pick up a nice RAV4 GOT ONE OF THESE TOO, still going strong and same great mileage after 8 years!
If your mileage improves, let the rest of us know. Good Luck. DEF WILL
Ed

No thanks needed. You shoulda bought a bicycle or even a flying carpet. GOT ONE of each
:flipoff: :
I noticed others on the forum are a bit frustrated with the couple or 3 threads you've put up (I've seen only 2, this and the other one I posted in) but the lawsuit talk is bordering "nutty" if you don't mind me saying. I do find your situation rather perplexing and interesting at the same time because there is a reason for what you are experiencing and based on your level of insistence, it does not sound like it is related to your driving style. I AGREE
I don't recall reading about it but have you performed compression and/ or leak down tests? Perhaps there is slight carbon build up on a valve which is causing some compression issues which can lead to efficiency problems, or worse, there is internal damage to cylinder walls (for example). MAYBE, IS IT IA DIY?
Beyond the mechanical checks of the chassis, have you explored the possibility of intake sealing issues? NOTED. Admittedly I am still familiarizing myself with my own 4Runner so I'm not sure if there's anything after MAF but a simple test for finding an intake leak would be to warm the engine up, grab a can of ether (ETHER IS ILLEGAL, NO?) and *lightly* hit all areas where pieces of the intake are coupled together as well as any composite items that are built in halves and listen for engine speed to surge.
I'm not sure if the intake plenum (NO IDEA WHAT THIS IS, BUT NOTED ) on yours is a composite material but I have seen issues with the halves separating ever-so-slightly on other vehicles I've worked on......my aforementioned Ranger being one of them.

I am an OEM guy, but here are things I've noticed that impact mileage-
Tire brand- I just switched to Continental Cross Contacts, and suffered a 3mpg loss. I was previously getting the EPA mileage. MIGHT SWITCH BACK TO OEM
Tire pressure- I know that tires can handle additional pressure, so I run about 40psi in mine. mpg still sucks. CHECK, 35PSI
Driving style- Sometimes, I just gotta be the first guy off the light. But mostly, I'm a light-footed driver. SAME HERE
The point- If mileage was one of my considerations at the time of purchase, I'd be rolling a Prius. I own a motorcycle that I use as my commuter, and my 4Runner serves as a backup, a grocery getter, and as my weekend kayak hauler. HEARD OF HEATHER PETERS? She purchased a civic hybrid, still bad MPGs
I agree it can be painful at fuel stops though. :wow: & it’s only a V6!

***Wow, you don’t realize it but all this typing (& I type fast too) takes time and as someone mentioned time = money. Therefore if someone out there already has a fix to this issue it would be greatly appreciated if you could share the knowledge, I may have some stuff laying around to serve as barter.
I forgot who mentioned it but trading/selling the truck for a smaller more fuel efficient vehicle would only pass the issue onto someone else, no?

 

[Climb14er]

Winter fuel here in Colorado, the V8 4Runner averages 15mpg around town and highway. In the summer, average moves higher to 18mpg combo city and hwy. Pure hwy in the summer... 19mpg.

I bought a V8, 4WD vehicle. This ain't NO Prius!

The lawyers could go take a long hike... they'll NEVER get me involved in a class-action suit re: poor mileage.

Those are simply... the facts. :beer:

 

[CookieRoe]

***Wow, you don’t realize it but all this typing (& I type fast too) takes time and as someone mentioned time = money. Therefore if someone out there already has a fix to this issue it would be greatly appreciated if you could share the knowledge, I may have some stuff laying around to serve as barter.
I forgot who mentioned it but trading/selling the truck for a smaller more fuel efficient vehicle would only pass the issue onto someone else, no?

In the thread I mentioned on my reply, you sent the oil analysis to a lab and they mentioned to do a tune up and reset the battery. I assume you did this already. Seafoam seems to help only for about a month or so (after reading some other posts), so the SF is worthless. Have you tried the 02 sensors? The OP in the aforementioned thread posted some interesting theories. The O2 sensor might not be functioning properly and not throw a code. By your sig, you look like a DIYer. Give it a shot, it can't hurt. Someone mentioned doing a compression test, did you do that?? Diagnosis the problem before blaming Toyota. I agree that you have an issue, but I wholeheartedly disagree with you on a class action lawsuit. You said time was money. I believe you are wasting your time with that. Solve the problem first, talk to others (on this forum too), then conclude IF its a factory issue. (which I doubt)

In mixed driving, I'm getting about 18mpg. All highway, I average about 23mpg. I have no heavy (weight) mods and have OEM sized tires. My previous SUV was a 1997 Grand Cherokee with the I-6. I would average 13mpg. What a piece of junk that was. So the mammoth size 4Runner (relatively speaking) getting 5mpg better was better than sex. Anyway, I noticed on your sig: ......... you have the 3M clear bra and would never do it again?????? I have one on my DD civic and could kick myself for NOT installing it when it was new. About $2K later (new bumper and paint....... my commute is highway), I learned my lesson. When my 4Runner's bumper gets all crusty, I'm repainting it and putting on the 3M clear bra. Back on topic...........................

 

[MikeInNH]

I know what a class action suit is and the chances of winning might be slim but at least they'll get someone's attention and then maybe toyota will have a fix for the problem even if there's no check engine light.

No you don't. A class action law suit is brought on by a large number of people all experiencing the same problem. There isn't a lawyer in the world who'll take this on. Sorry but you're being naive and obviously watching too many Law TV shows.

Once again I reiterate that all driving conditions have been the same since I bought the truck when new in 2007, except maybe the implementation of ethanol into our gas but i can't imagine that having such a big affect, oh and let's not forget my monster truck tires!

ARE YOU KIDDING...Ethanol will have a HUGE effect on gas mileage. You can easily see a 5-10% decrease in gas mileage with 10% Ethanol additive. Who told you there wouldn't be a difference.

And again...HUGE truck tires...Come on...what bull cr*p is this?? You no longer have an OEM vehicle, but you're expecting OEM gas mileage. Are you serious?? Or is this some type of joke?? I can't believe anyone with an IQ over 90 could possibly be serious.

 

[aerostat]

I'm Happy

2008 Limited
Under 38,000 Miles - Haven't looked recently
265 /60/ 18 Michelin AT 2's - 36 PSI
All maintenance performed
Regular Gas - Use different gas brands - not just 1
Mobil 1 Oil 5/30
Roof Rack
Running Boards
Regular multiple weekly washes - Always waxed

I'm very happy with my mileage. Get between 15-18 around town and 20-24 highway. I literally stay away from heavy town/city traffic if alternate route available. Restrict breaking stopping and going if possible. Coast to red lights if possible. Heavy foot sucks up more gas obviously as do windy days on the highway. I'm a fairly aggressive driver (not road rage type driver) - but I do try to practice what you might call fuel - saving - consumption - techniques most of the time. EXAMPLE - (I can shop for food by driving stop and go for 4 miles or take the highway @ 5 miles and drive non stop @ 65 MPH - I take the highway there and back every time)

Good highway cruising speed - about 65 MPH.

That said, I think I'm going to take a break and go outside to wash her up and take a ride. It's 53 degrees!

 

[DC runner]

We should lock this thread down.. I get the feeling it will just degenerate into a verbal fist match.

Most on here feel a lawsuit is ridiculous.. but you know what, the cornerstone of America is a person's access to the legal system. Anyone is free to bring a suit, if they so feel. A judge, trained in legal theory, will determine if the suit has merits and if it should move to a trial.

I suspect it would be laughed out of court....

 

[galactic_04]

Yea I'm the guy that gets 14MPG avg year round. I'm that guy that stands up for what he believes in. If you bought a brand new house & it took a crap on you in a few years and didn't live up to it's claim you wouldn't do a thing would you? I see you're THAT guy.

You're that guy that's going to lose a lawsuit. bottom line is there's way too many variables and it's going to get thrown out due to "lack of maintenance on your truck". do you have proof of EVERY bit of maintenance done to your truck since it was new? Do you have proof that the truck is running right? Was every part thrown into the truck a factory Toyota part including oil filters? Was the oil the right weight and documented every time you changed it? If you're lucky they'd offer you a free check-up about the issue and your lawyer will now be $5000 richer.

Too many variables... it'll be cheaper to get a new car... maybe something with a 4 cylinder this time.

 

[Desert Fox]

3. I don't get poor mileage ( I get the advertised MPG;16/21 for V6, 14/18 for V8 )

I have a V8 and get between 15 and 20 MPG and I have a heavy foot. Sorry I cant help in this cause.

Good luck

 

[034RUNNER]

More often than not, the claimed MPG's is wrong.

I only read about the first page of this thread so I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but your driving habits gotta come into play as well. Even babying my throttle (rarely), I get 15mpg at best. Driving a good amount of city recently doesn't help the cause, either.

I knew my MPG's were going to suffer when I put bigger tires on. Don't waste your money on a suit because once Toyota see's you modded the truck (tires), you're done.

If you knew you were going to put on bigger tires and had concerns about MPG, you should have read up on the matter. That's not Toyota's problem, that you didn't think then to do it or whatever the excuse may be.

Being the person that sues because their coffee burnt their tongue isn't admirable. Expect the consequences of what you do and deal with it or make a change. Blaming someone isn't going to accomplish anything. From my experience, my MPG loses aren't anything to cry about.

 

[kobresia]

Tires have a lot to do with it. Driving habits have a lot to do with it. A mechanical problem might have something to do with it, but probably not. A lawsuit would accomplish nothing worthwhile.

I notice a bit of a drop in mileage when I'm on the oxygenated winter gasoline (it DOES make a substantial difference), when I have slightly-larger-than-OEM studded snow tires installed (the heavy tread, studs, and size make the BIGGEST difference), and when I don't use mileage-optimized regular tires in the summer, because I want at least some grip from my tread.
I also didn't recalibrate the speedo for the larger tires. That makes a difference because that causes everything to register low.
I also notice a drop in mileage when I only commute (shorter, and mostly mountain driving) as opposed to when I drive somewhere on the interstate.

I get around 19-20mpg when everything is optimal. I get 15-16mpg in the winter.

Also, on other vehicles, I've noticed substantial drops in mileage after adding accessories, which generally create additional drag.

If you want high mileage, go back to 100% stock, get fuel-economy tires, and see if that doesn't make it behave more like it used to. People never, ever think any of the mods or garbage they install make a difference, but they all add up.

 

[BReardon21]

Sorry I got Click Happy

I am pretty mad that I got click happy and clicked Yes on this before reading it. I have a modded v8 and still get around 13mpg during the winter. It needs to be noted I have a remote start, which I lover, therefore the truck sits idling in the driveway fro 5-10 min before I leave so it's nice and toasty. That's an MPG killer there!

I do not wish to participate and for the record I think it's a ridiculous topic. Get rid of your 4RUnner and buy a Camry.

On an unrelated note, my father has to buy a new car and I am steering him towards an 08 or later Avalon gets 23 city and 31 highway. Good for him since he drives 35,000-40,000 miles per year!

 

[bergs]

My previous post in quotes. My response to your replies are in boldface

I don't recall reading about it but have you performed compression and/ or leak down tests? Perhaps there is slight carbon build up on a valve which is causing some compression issues which can lead to efficiency problems, or worse, there is internal damage to cylinder walls (for example).

MAYBE, IS IT IA DIY?

IMO, best to have a trusted non-factory shop perform the tests. It may well yield nothing but it certainly should not be ruled out.

Admittedly I am still familiarizing myself with my own 4Runner so I'm not sure if there's anything after MAF but a simple test for finding an intake leak would be to warm the engine up, grab a can of ether...

(ETHER IS ILLEGAL, NO?)

Starting fluid

I'm not sure if the intake plenum ...

(NO IDEA WHAT THIS IS, BUT NOTED )

The intake plenum is where the air is distributed to each cylinder. In a "V" configured engine, it is the (large) part that sits between the cylinder banks. Again, I am not sure if it is a composite or not on these vehicles so it may well be a bunk suggestion to begin with.

 

[ronsta]

My inspiration:
Woman wins small-claims suit over Honda Civic Hybrid - Yahoo! Autos

Note to all, it's getting a bit time consuming having to read & reply to all of your posts but thanks to all for their honesty and thanks to the haters for hating, keep it coming. It fuels my quest for this project.

Shout out to MIKEinNH, you're absolutely right, I've never taken an IQ test, I took the ASVAB & scored a 99 & chose the Infantry, that's right a blue cord. What did you score?

I'm not gonna spend my hard earned $ from my LES to buy a product, have it not perform after a while, take it up the 8ss and then say, "thank you sir may I have another". No way Jose, that's not how I was raised & I certainly hope you weren't raised like that either. I hope that we'll all be smart American consumers and tell the manufacturers what works & what doesn't, I'm almost positive the country would be better off that way.

For anyone in the NYC area having this issue and would like to be in the loop regarding a fix PM me, I've convinced a mechanic 50 miles away from me to take his truck back to have it looked at. Yes he has the same 4th gen v6 but is certified. He was all ears after I showed him my almost full tank of gas and the range only showing ~275. His truck had 1/4 tank of gas and showed ~75 so he did the math and realized he also has an issue. (his is all stock & proud of it and also originally pointed out my slightly taller tires).

So anyway PM me if you're interested in fixing your truck & saving $ in the long run, I'm not promising that anything gets fixed but I'm just happy to get this ball rolling.

BERGS: thx for your auto tips but if a mechanic can't figure it out...

 

[ClockWork]

My inspiration:
Woman wins small-claims suit over Honda Civic Hybrid - Yahoo! Autos

Note to all, it's getting a bit time consuming having to read & reply to all of your posts but thanks to all for their honesty and thanks to the haters for hating, keep it coming. It fuels my quest for this project.

Shout out to MIKEinNH, you're absolutely right, I've never taken an IQ test, I took the ASVAB & scored a 99 & chose the Infantry, that's right a blue cord. What did you score?

I'm not gonna spend my hard earned $ from my LES to buy a product, have it not perform after a while, take it up the 8ss and then say, "thank you sir may I have another". No way Jose, that's not how I was raised & I certainly hope you weren't raised like that either. I hope that we'll all be smart American consumers and tell the manufacturers what works & what doesn't, I'm almost positive the country would be better off that way.

For anyone in the NYC area having this issue and would like to be in the loop regarding a fix PM me, I've convinced a mechanic 50 miles away from me to take his truck back to have it looked at. Yes he has the same 4th gen v6 but is certified. He was all ears after I showed him my almost full tank of gas and the range only showing ~275. His truck had 1/4 tank of gas and showed ~75 so he did the math and realized he also has an issue. (his is all stock & proud of it and also originally pointed out my slightly taller tires).

So anyway PM me if you're interested in fixing your truck & saving $ in the long run, I'm not promising that anything gets fixed but I'm just happy to get this ball rolling.

BERGS: thx for your auto tips but if a mechanic can't figure it out...

CoolStoryBro.

Want a tree to hug?

 

[Dusty Driftwood]

I hope that we'll all be smart American consumers

Well that's a glaring contradiction if I ever saw one

Good luck on your quest. For what its worth, I filled up today and drove about 50 miles. According to preliminary hand calculations, I'm about 9 miles ahead.
In another thought, have you tried resetting your onboard calculator, or calculating by hand?

 

[TRDCal]

I find this topic amusing and i'm poor

 

[ronsta]

CoolStoryBro.

Want a tree to hug?

Thanks but I’ve already planted 25 trees in my yard 6 of which are dead and need to be replaced. I’m also a member of some damn bird foundation that keeps sending me crap. Oh & don’t forget the volunteer time I put in with habitat for humanity. Still got jokes?
Oh & I believe your original comment was, “CoolStoryBro. GTFO and stop *****ing.” You can see it right here: ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting
You see the interwebs is a funny thing, you can edit all you want but there will still be a trace of your original post. It’s also funny in the fact that you can be a belligerent silver spooned snob hiding behind a screen from now till forever. But then again that one can lie about the cars s/he claims to drive.
I guess it’s true, haters will always hate. I’m just trying to save some folks some gas $ that can be put forth towards other things. Again, PM me if you’re interested.

Well that's a glaring contradiction if I ever saw one
Good luck on your quest. For what its worth, I filled up today and drove about 50 miles. According to preliminary hand calculations, I'm about 9 miles ahead.
In another thought, have you tried resetting your onboard calculator, or calculating by hand?

Dusty, what’s the contradiction? The fact that I want my SUV to get the advertised MPG? The shop of the guy who also owns a 4R, his partner (also a mechanic) said his old Tundra got like 20 MPG, 4.7 liter.
Yes I’ve tried resetting the onboard & always calculate by hand, only use the range display as a reference.

I find this topic amusing and i'm poor

Poor is a relative term seriously if you’re having an issue with your v8 and we find a fix it may help put some change back in your pockets, never know!

 

[berettashot117]

people on this forum are so biased and favor Toyota, I honestly think your wasting your time and all this thread is good for is stirring people up at this point. oh, and we all know clockwork is just an antagonist, I've personally said so in more than one thread, so don't worry about him, he's "opinionated, mmk" ( i will send you an interweb cookie if you can figure that one out LOL)

 

[MikeInNH]

Shout out to MIKEinNH, you're absolutely right, I've never taken an IQ test, I took the ASVAB & scored a 99 & chose the Infantry, that's right a blue cord. What did you score?

When I got drafted for Nam...we all had to take the test....When I was drafted the highest possible GT score was 130. I scored 126. I don't know what it is now.

I'm not gonna spend my hard earned $ from my LES to buy a product, have it not perform after a while

The point is your NOT taking into account the gas now using Ethanol and your bigger tires...Those are contributing factors that can DRASTICALLY effect your gas mileage. You seem to IGNORE that.

And you still don't understand what a class action suit is.

I showed him my almost full tank of gas and the range only showing ~275. His truck had 1/4 tank of gas and showed ~75 so he did the math and realized he also has an issue. (his is all stock & proud of it and also originally pointed out my slightly taller tires).

You also don't know how to calculate gas mileage. Sorry...but it's a fact. You CAN NOT calculate gas mileage that way. You can only calculate it by taking the number of gallons you added during a fill-up and divide that into the number of miles you've driven since your last fill-up.