Positive camber issue - bent spindle?

[Drift Monkey]

Let me share my alignment setup first - SPC UCAs on setting G (for max clearance - I run 35s) LCAs set for max caster (rear outboard, front inboard) via Taco Tabs, camber on the SPC UCAs maxed inwards for camber correction.

The driver's side is is still at +1.5, whereas the general alignment looks correct on the left (yes, I know my caster isn't ideal - but they're set for max clearance). Taco tabs are identically set on both sides, LCAs were replaced earlier this year (infamous seized cam bolts), so I'm thinking bent spindle?

Driver's side:

Passenger's side:

The angles look different to me - the driver's side UCA ball joint is further away from the spring and looks to be sitting at a different angle.

Any alignment heads have any thoughts?

 

[montijo505]

It's hard to tell without pulling them and comparing. Subbed to see what you figure out.

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[Drift Monkey]

It's hard to tell without pulling them and comparing. Subbed to see what you figure out.

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Definitely nigh impossible to eyeball.

 

[pauldub]

If you set rear LCA bushing fully outboard and forward one fully inboard, you are maximizing caster correction which is the opposite of what you said.

It's going to drive very twitchy on the highway with as little caster as you have.

 

[pauldub]

You're going to have to give up a little caster on the left side in order to get the camber where you want it.

 

[Drift Monkey]

If you set rear LCA bushing fully outboard and forward one fully inboard, you are maximizing caster correction which is the opposite of what you said.

It's going to drive very twitchy on the highway with as little caster as you have.

I wrote camber - meant caster. They're maxed for wheel clearance - moving the wheel as far forward as possible. It's not as twitchy as it's made out to be, a bit more wander-y but I've driven multiple 3+ hour road trips (one way each time) on the highway at 75mph+ with no issues.

You're going to have to give up a little caster on the left side in order to get the camber where you want it.

Thought about that, but why should that be? The setting are identical from side to side.

 

[Inv4drZm]

I had the same issue with mine back when I had more stock front end parts. Before LT arms and Taco Tabs. At some point, maybe during a hard winching, I had positive camber on the driver's side.

I swapped out the spindle for a used one from ebay and it was still the same so the spindle wasn't bent.

I've since upgraded the front end and its back to normal, of course the alignment is done with the UCA heims so plenty of adjustment room. Still not sure the cause of it.

 

[pauldub]

I think you will need to do what Inv4drZm did and use UCAs with adjustable heim joints in order to have enough adjustment. I recently installed some Dobinson UCAs and with 3" of lift they are only giving me about 1.5 degrees of caster correction instead of the 3 degrees that they advertise. I suppose at 1" of lift they might have given me 3 degrees. I barely have enough adjustment on the cams to get the camber in spec and still have enough caster to make the car drive decently. I was only able to get the caster to about 2-3/4 degrees which is less than desired but survivable. The more you lift the front, the more caster correction you'll need.

 

[rdruss]

So, driftmonkey, are you lifted and if so, by how much. (Did I miss it?)

 

[BackOff]

Let me share my alignment setup first - SPC UCAs on setting G (for max clearance - I run 35s) LCAs set for max caster (rear outboard, front inboard) via Taco Tabs, camber on the SPC UCAs maxed inwards for camber correction.

The driver's side is is still at +1.5, whereas the general alignment looks correct on the left (yes, I know my caster isn't ideal - but they're set for max clearance). Taco tabs are identically set on both sides, LCAs were replaced earlier this year (infamous seized cam bolts), so I'm thinking bent spindle?

Driver's side:

Passenger's side:

The angles look different to me - the driver's side UCA ball joint is further away from the spring and looks to be sitting at a different angle.

Any alignment heads have any thoughts?

That G setting basicly moves you back to stock settings.
You may have to back off to F or E to gain more adjustability.

Are you rubbing the body mount, room to spare?

 

[Drift Monkey]

I had the same issue with mine back when I had more stock front end parts. Before LT arms and Taco Tabs. At some point, maybe during a hard winching, I had positive camber on the driver's side.

I swapped out the spindle for a used one from ebay and it was still the same so the spindle wasn't bent.

I've since upgraded the front end and its back to normal, of course the alignment is done with the UCA heims so plenty of adjustment room. Still not sure the cause of it.

It could very well NOT be the spindle, but I'm seriously perplexed.

I think you will need to do what Inv4drZm did and use UCAs with adjustable heim joints in order to have enough adjustment. I recently installed some Dobinson UCAs and with 3" of lift they are only giving me about 1.5 degrees of caster correction instead of the 3 degrees that they advertise. I suppose at 1" of lift they might have given me 3 degrees. I barely have enough adjustment on the cams to get the camber in spec and still have enough caster to make the car drive decently. I was only able to get the caster to about 2-3/4 degrees which is less than desired but survivable. The more you lift the front, the more caster correction you'll need.

The rest of the alignment is fine. I'm intentionally forgoing UCA side caster in order to gain clearance for 35s. In other words, getting caster back into spec is taking a backseat to wheel clearance in this instance.

So, driftmonkey, are you lifted and if so, by how much. (Did I miss it?)

3" Dobinsons IMS - extended front/long travel rear

That G setting basicly moves you back to stock settings.
You may have to back off to F or E to gain more adjustability.

Are you rubbing the body mount, room to spare?

It's intentional, setting G gives max clearance away from the firewall and more clearance between the ball joint and the springs. I may try setting F and see if it gets any better - but this puts my firewall/springs at risk.

No body mount chop rub.

 

[duffdog]

Spindles are super cheap and can be both changed in a few hours. I would do that first before messing with alignments and control arms.

FYI - my girls 4runner was just in an off road race and both control arms were bent different amounts, preventing alignment. Nothing can be done in that case. Its best to just change them and get it over with.

 

[BackOff]

I get the idea of a G setting, max clearance from boby mount.

Do you understand you have setting adjustability now at a +0 caster that the G gives.
Then you added +3 lift so you are stuck at what would equal a OEM uca setting...so no caster/camber leeway.
If you have room at the body mount, then add caster at the uca.

Pic of cams?


How the hell are you guys bending spindles?
The one i saw that may or may not have been bent took hitting a 2ft diameter downed tree at 25-30mph.

 

[Drift Monkey]

Spindles are super cheap and can be both changed in a few hours. I would do that first before messing with alignments and control arms.

FYI - my girls 4runner was just in an off road race and both control arms were bent different amounts, preventing alignment. Nothing can be done in that case. Its best to just change them and get it over with.

Cheap where? OEMs are 300 a pop. I have found aftermarket replacements for cheap but at this point I'm not even convinced they are bent. Might still crab a set and gusset them for good measure.

I get the idea of a G setting, max clearance from boby mount.

Do you understand you have setting adjustability now at a +0 caster that the G gives.
Then you added +3 lift so you are stuck at what would equal a OEM uca setting...so no caster/camber leeway.
If you have room at the body mount, then add caster at the uca.

Pic of cams?

How the hell are you guys bending spindles?
The one i saw that may or may not have been bent took hitting a 2ft diameter downed tree at 25-30mph.

SPCs have camber adjustability on the UCA - that is how I dialed in my camber in the passenger side within spec. Maxing the LCA cams inherently gives max caster but also gives a bit of unwanted positive camber - something dialed out by the UCA camber adjustment (all the way negative)

Adding more caster at the UCA is possibly an option, but decreases clearance at the UCA to spring area as well as decreasing my firewall clearance. Also could adjust in the front taco tabs to the middle position up front to add more camber back at the cost of caster.

 

[Drift Monkey]

Fronts are inboard, rears are outboard. My next course could be 2 things:

1. Trying the neutral setting (or even outboard) on the front taco tab bolts to try to get some camber back
2. Try setting F on the SPC UCAs as well - this still MIGHT give enough clearance.

Theoretically I can gain around -.75 camber with the front cam bolts neutral (-1.5 full outboard) and around +.75 caster by moving the UCA caster setting back some to F( which should, in turn, give more a bit more negative camber). I’m not sure how much my wheel will move back in either scenario really.

 

[duffdog]

Cheap where? OEMs are 300 a pop. I have found aftermarket replacements for cheap but at this point I'm not even convinced they are bent. Might still crab a set and gusset them for good measure.








They are available for a very good price if you call them a "steering knuckle". The second someone calls the exact same part a "spindle", the price multiplies by 3.

NEW Front Driver Left Steering Knuckle Fit for Toyota 4Runner 43212-60200 USA | eBay

 

[BackOff]

Cheap where? OEMs are 300 a pop. I have found aftermarket replacements for cheap but at this point I'm not even convinced they are bent. Might still crab a set and gusset them for good measure.








They are available for a very good price if you call them a "steering knuckle". The second someone calls the exact same part a "spindle", the price multiplies by 3.

NEW Front Driver Left Steering Knuckle Fit for Toyota 4Runner 43212-60200 USA | eBay

Nice.
These and a set of spindle gussets, little practice welding...

Even these used are not this cheap.

 

[Drift Monkey]

They are available for a very good price if you call them a "steering knuckle". The second someone calls the exact same part a "spindle", the price multiplies by 3.

NEW Front Driver Left Steering Knuckle Fit for Toyota 4Runner 43212-60200 USA | eBay

Nice.
These and a set of spindle gussets, little practice welding...

Even these used are not this cheap.

I found these for a decent price: Amazon.com: A-Premium Steering Knuckle Replacement for Lexus GX460 Toyota 4Runner FJ Cruiser 2003-2015 Front Driver and Passenger 2-PC: Automotive

 

[montijo505]

I found these for a decent price: Amazon.com: A-Premium Steering Knuckle Replacement for Lexus GX460 Toyota 4Runner FJ Cruiser 2003-2015 Front Driver and Passenger 2-PC: Automotive

Have them gusseted before install if you never want this problem again lol

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[duffdog]

Have them gusseted before install if you never want this problem again lol

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That gusset design with the c-shaped fish piece looks very strong.