Post-lift overshoot? (and alignment)

[newbian]

Newbian's '15 TE Build Thread & adventures!

See sig below for specs. So I measured as "scientifically" as possible before and after....same level surface, equal tire pressure x 4 each time, no additional cargo, etc. Was measuring from the ground through the center of the tire to the lower edge of the fender in each case, front and rear (not sure if this is the preferred method but I was consistent). I took two sets of measurements both before and after, and the numbers match...

Looks like somehow I got ~3" both in the front and rear with this setup. How is this possible? Did I underestimate how much the slightly bigger tires + new shocks would add in addition to the coilover in front? Had a very reputable shop install them, they clearly were familiar with the 6112s and how to set the third clip (which should be 2") and I even circled the setting in the paperwork and showed them LOL. I know the SAWs run closer to 2"....but 3"? Hopefully some settling will occur.

Or am I just not measuring correctly? This is what I'm hoping since it would be odd for BOTH the front and rear to overshoot like that, right?

Here are some pics..

 

[newbian]

Second issue with the alignment, is the caster as you can imagine.

Now if this somehow ended up being a 3" lift then all bets are off and I need new UCAs.

But assuming it's truly 2", should I be having this much trouble getting the caster into spec? I realize any degree of lift changes the suspension geometry and each truck is different...but by all accounts 2" should be doable, right?

I've attached the 3 recent alignment sheets:

#1 is just stock a few weeks ago

#2 is post-lift from the shop that did the lift...looks like caster is ok but camber was slightly out (I know this is a common sacrifice to make)...but it looks like their specs are different than toyota's?

#3 took it to toyota today because the service manager is cool with me and re-attempted the alignment for free under warranty (despite lifted). Car was pulling a bit and I wanted to give the alignment another go. As you can see he was able to get toe and camber fine, but only 2.4 caster.


Honestly I'm kinda lost...not sure which spec sheet numbers to believe as they both have different ranges. Did I just get a lazy Toyota tech this time around? It was a Saturday and they didn't even ID the car correctly (says SR5 but I have a TE w/KDSS - not sure if it even makes a difference). It drives "ok" even with caster at 2.4 but could/should be better.

Should I try calling another Toyota dealer and see if they have someone that can take another look? I'm not opposed to new UCAs either.

 

[comtn4x4]

Can you post your numbers? That will give us something to look at

oops sorry, I was too quick

 

[comtn4x4]

To measure how much lift you got measure from the center of the wheel hub to the bottom of the fender on all four corners. Measuring from the ground is including the increase in tire size in your measurements. If you didn't measure this way pre lift it will be hard to tell exactly what you ended up with I think. You could search what the stock measurements are on here. I am pretty sure you could find them

 

[newbian]

To measure how much lift you got measure from the center of the wheel hub to the bottom of the fender on all four corners. Measuring from the ground is including the increase in tire size in your measurements. If you didn't measure this way pre lift it will be hard to tell exactly what you ended up with I think. You could search what the stock measurements are on here. I am pretty sure you could find them

Thanks, figured I was doing it wrong.

 

[gm350reratliff]

Just for reference, when I did my Icon COs and SAW rears, I ended up with 2.75" in the front and 2.25" in the rear- measured from lip of wheelwell to center of wheel. I imagine you are seeing some lift due to new tires. I haven't measured lately but I don't think it has settled much. As for caster, I got about the same numbers but I have Camburg BJ UCAs. I definitely was hoping for better numbers but honestly it drives great and is very steady at all speeds. That said, there is no way Camburg builds an additional 2° in these.

So how does your 4runner drive?

 

[cjacob316]

Just for reference, when I did my Icon COs and SAW rears, I ended up with 2.75" in the front and 2.25" in the rear- measured from lip of wheelwell to center of wheel. I imagine you are seeing some lift due to new tires. I haven't measured lately but I don't think it has settled much. As for caster, I got about the same numbers but I have Camburg BJ UCAs. I definitely was hoping for better numbers but honestly it drives great and is very steady at all speeds. That said, there is no way Camburg builds an additional 2° in these.

So how does your 4runner drive?

That's disappointing because I was about to buy some Camburgs

 

[rnb754]

Your seeing lift due to your tires. When you go with bigger tires, you do get the difference in height.

 

[newbian]

Just for reference, when I did my Icon COs and SAW rears, I ended up with 2.75" in the front and 2.25" in the rear- measured from lip of wheelwell to center of wheel. I imagine you are seeing some lift due to new tires. I haven't measured lately but I don't think it has settled much. As for caster, I got about the same numbers but I have Camburg BJ UCAs. I definitely was hoping for better numbers but honestly it drives great and is very steady at all speeds. That said, there is no way Camburg builds an additional 2° in these.

So how does your 4runner drive?

Yea, a quick glance at the 5th gen tire fitment guide shows that going to a 275 tire yields probably 0.5-0.6" in diameter.

It drives well enough. Then again I've never driven it with close to 4 of caster so I have nothing to compare it to.

But assuming this was a legit 2" lift only, don't you think I would be able to get the caster at least IN spec? Should I bother with another shop?

 

[gm350reratliff]

Some folks are able to get caster at least in spec when after a 2" lift but most will not be in spec. From what people post on here (and some other Toyota related forums) and my experience working in the truck accessory world, caster really starts tapering off after about 1.5-2" of lift. When I lifted my 2008 4runner 2.5", caster was really low as well. Going with an aftermarket UCA really helped on that one. If your 4runner drives good and feels stable at speed then you probably don't need to worry about going to a different UCA.

 

[newbian]

What do you guys think - did the fender liner mod and still getting some rubbing on driver's side with wheel full lock to the right in reverse only. Looks like the tire is catching on the edge/lip of the bumper plastic that curves down to form the front of the wheel well.

 

[3wbdriver]

That fender lip will trim with a box cutter knife. It's really a lot easier than you would think.

 

[newbian]

Just an update for you guys...so I ended up having to trim a tiny bit of that fender lip on the inside to prevent rub. Felt a little dirty inside having to take a knife to it, but in reality it was maybe 1 cm of trim in the shape of triangle and in addition to the fender liner mod there is now no more rubbing in front!

Kind of surprised I had that much rubbing in front with my caster only at 2.5. And I searched extensively and I cannot remember coming across other members who had to do the same +/- fender liner mod. I wonder if the '14-'15 models have a more intrusive fender than the older 5th gens?

Anyways, it was really easy to do. Just used a really sharp utility knife and cut through the plastic at an angle - it's fairly tough plastic but a sharp blade and a steady hand make it no problem. Didn't have to heat it or anything. Did the passenger side as well even though I didn't have any rubbing just to make it uniform if anybody stuck their head under my truck LOL. Ended up lightly sanding the edge not because it was sharp, just to make it as straight of an edge as possible. Looks real clean and factory-like IMO.

Here are some before and after pics...this is looking at the front of the wheel well on the driver's side. The before pic has the wheel almost full lock to the right, that's why they look a bit different

 

[Bevo]

They cut the bumper on the pros at the port all the way across and that was to clear stock size tires. Don't be surprised if you have cut even more than that.

 

[newbian]

Also wanted to take this time to thank everyone who helped me with build advice and general questions, specifically [MENTION=103267]Saker[/MENTION], [MENTION=123998]fishcrow[/MENTION], [MENTION=123911]borfoo3[/MENTION], [MENTION=126375]Buck208[/MENTION], [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] and anybody else I may have PM'd! Mike at Total Automotive was also incredibly helpful as was their pricing and fast shipping.

Will continue to use this thread as a build/adventure log.

 

[newbian]

They cut the bumper on the pros at the port all the way across and that was to clear stock size tires. Don't be surprised if you have cut even more than that.

Interesting...I didn't know that.

So far there has been zero rubbing but I'm sure there may be some with flex, we'll see. You're right, I can always trim some more.

I have also left the caster at 2.5 for now...it drives pretty well. Might explore UCAs after the winter if I decide to go higher, want to try to avoid putting them in right before winter and mucking them up right away with all the road crap around here.

The rear SAW 1.5" were more like 2" at the start (I measured incorrectly at the start)...they have settled 0.25" since then. Will put up some more pics soon.

 

[Mistaken]

Nice! Glad that all worked out.

 

[SLC Punk]

I didn't think that the TRD wheels spec's were that much different from the stock TE (other than being 7.5" vs 8" width). I didn't have to do any trimming even when i was at stock height.

I can't remember the exact specs on my caster, but they were able to get mine within specs (barely) with my 5100's set to 2.5" (actual was 2 3/4")

 

[mtomaro]

I didn't think that the TRD wheels spec's were that much different from the stock TE (other than being 7.5" vs 8" width). I didn't have to do any trimming even when i was at stock height.

I can't remember the exact specs on my caster, but they were able to get mine within specs (barely) with my 5100's set to 2.5" (actual was 2 3/4")

TE's are 17x7.5
TRD (Pro style) are 17x7

 

[newbian]

I didn't think that the TRD wheels spec's were that much different from the stock TE (other than being 7.5" vs 8" width). I didn't have to do any trimming even when i was at stock height.

I can't remember the exact specs on my caster, but they were able to get mine within specs (barely) with my 5100's set to 2.5" (actual was 2 3/4")

Yeah I'm not sure why I had so much front rubbing either, especially with caster on the low side.

I guess every truck truly is different.