Put to shame by an H3 & Durango

F

Falls

Super Moderator
Well we have a blizzard warning which means a nite of play and 4 wheeling.

I was in a new construction site that has paved and unpaved roads that were drifted massively . I run into 2 guy playing back there . I Dodge Durango (OBS) and an 07 H3 .

So we get to playing and these 2 guy's , both with stock vehicles were running circles around me and going places I could not even attempt. The H3 which actually is listed as having damn near the ground clearance that the 4R has , went down through a culvert ( low crawling, and pretty flexed ) through about a 4 foot drift and back up the other side , the Durango made it through but with no where near the ease if the H3 , my turn , couldn't even make it 1/4 as far as they did. Neither truck had anything special, the H3 had Bridestone AT 285's and the Durango has GY wranglers 31/10.5's. They pulled me out and pushed me out 2x , even on the heavily drifted paved road not to mention the unpaved road.

I was impressed as hell with what that H3 was going through and what he was doing all in lo range crawling speed,I know everyone here is pro Toyota ( including me ) but the H3 was impressive.

To top off the night we decide to stop for a cup of Java and BS a little , they were cool never bad mouthed my truck or praised theirs , just mostly truck talk in general. My cell phone was dead , so I had to plug it into the H3's outlet to charge it since the Toyota's dont work when the motor is turned off..... felt like a butthead.

Then on the way back ( turns out they live pretty close ) we are on a Town road ( pretty much much impassable and there is a car off the road , we all stop Durango put his 4 was on at one end , I'm at the other end and have my 4 ways on and my portable strobe since visibility was for crap. The guy with the H3 hooks a tow strap on and drags the guys car through about 50 feet of 18" of snow and up onto the road.

Just a very tail between the legs night with these guys. Very nice guys though which help with my complex I developed last night.

End of story
:( :( :( :(
 
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Were you center locked? I'm just thinking out loud, but in deep snow perhaps the H3s better ground clearance (actual, not official) kept it from high centering. It also looks like the front approach angle/bumper shape on the H3 would have it plowing less snow. Less plow in front and less drag underneath maybe equals big difference. Like I said, just thinking out loud. I have no idea what to say about the Durango, which is why I asked if you were center locked.

Did you get a line on their setups? Was the H3 locked in the rear, etc.?
 
I'm familiar with your knowledge from reading your other posts, and so I am sure driver error is NOT to blame.

The capability of the H3 doesn't surprise me, but being bested by the Durango sure does!

From everything I ever heard or read about Durangos, they are not known for their stellar off-road capability.

This news is depressing. :(
 
Huh. Odd. I was out playing last night around midnight And there was an H3 stuck on a snow drift. Are you sure you had the center diff locked? i have the REVO's also only has 5,000 miles, but i had some peeps in the car including one that often offroaded and was really impressed with 4Runner, he never though I could make it through a snow drift and I did with ease.
 
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Yes the center diff. was locked. It cuts off power if you don't.

The Durango like I said was the old body style , stock height though.

The H3 was also stock with the adventure package ( 285 tires ) Bridgestone AT's , don't know if he had the rear locked or not , never asked , either way damn impressive vehicle IMO. He had it flexed quite a bit.

The tires they both had were more aggressive than my Revos , but for an all terrain tire most of them are. I do need better tire's , these are on road all season tires if you as me. Not made for severe conditions .

As far as someone commenting about the H3 they saw in the ditch last night , well I pretty much saw every kind of vehicle in the ditch last night ....lol Even 1 of our county hi-way plows.

One of the things I think was the problem , besides the crappy tires ( Revos w/20k on them ), is the 4wd system on the 4R , with the diff. unlocked as we all know it will kill the power if you try to do anything and when the diff. is locked , your have the brakes pulsating and slowing your wheel spin to activate Atrac I had my foot heavy into it and really rippin up the RPM to get it moving.

Do you think the 4R's 4x4 system is less superior than the other type you can just lock in and give it hell ?? I personally never thought so , but now wonder a bit .
 
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As a former owner of a Durango, I'm really amazed by your experience. Snow is a fact of life for me; It's not unusual to be driving through 6-12 inches of the white stuff, and that was the main reason for trading in my Durango. From your description, I had the same basic setup. As for the H3, I'm not too surprised by that.
 
I have some real good first hand exp with this topic my sister has an "06" H3 and I had the last gen Dodge Durango for 3 years.

Lets start with the Dodge: The only time the Dodge was better in the snow than my "06" V6 runner is (Like Falls and I have said many times) When you need to spin the tires at the right time to clear them out and you can't.

As for my sisters H3 I drove it the last big storm we had and I did not think it was any better than my runner but im also running an aggressive A/T tire that I felt did better in the snow then the Bridgestones on her H3. I did not go threw any large drifts mind you but I did stop on some deep steep snow covered roads and gas it (both the H3 and my runner) and I felt I was right there with the H3. As for deeper snow or mud I can't say but that Diff lock in the rear must help the H3.
 
Sorry, but if you're getting outdone by Dodge Durango's you're doing something wrong. Tires and driving techniques being the 2 most likely sources.
 
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Falls said:

..The tires they both had were more aggressive than my Revos..
Click to expand...

Tires make a huge difference in snow. The story sounds a little weird. It could easily just be a tire story.

As far as the ATRAC, next time you have an opportunity to play where you can get pulled out, try a snowy obstacle like you normally would with center locked, and then try it again with the plug pulled to disable all ABS functions. Then you'll know which works better in snow.
 
Northof49 said:
Sorry, but if you're getting outdone by Dodge Durango's you're doing something wrong.
Click to expand...

Well say what you wish , I've been off roading and snow wheeling since I was 16 years old with a 4x4 lifted F250 , I am now 45 and still doing off roading and winter wheeling. Not say at all that I'm an expert by any means , but I know what I'm doing.

Both the tires they were running were AT's , but quite a bit more bite than a Revo , which is more of an all season / all terrain. They ride great , great in rain , handle nice , ok in light snow on road , just hate them off road and in deep snow.

Dont know the Durango story except it was stock except for tires , he also has a factory rear locker or a limited slip. He was roosting both back tires pretty good , but then again with the Atrac I can roost all 4 tires pretty good .

I dont know what was going on , we got alot of snow !! Probably 16"+ and it was heavy wet, wet stuff , like driving in wet cement.

Dont get me wrong the 4R did ok , and it was mostly the H3 that kicked ass , I was surprised by the Durango , ( which I personally think is a POS.) Maybe it was the heavier weight and wider stance & tire combined ....... ??????
 
JB. said:
Tires make a huge difference in snow. The story sounds a little weird. It could easily just be a tire story.

As far as the ATRAC, next time you have an opportunity to play where you can get pulled out, try a snowy obstacle like you normally would with center locked, and then try it again with the plug pulled to disable all ABS functions. Then you'll know which works better in snow.
Click to expand...

I thought the plug also disabled the Atrac , really dont think that would do it then I would basically not have the 4 wheel traction , it would be a 1 front and a 1 rear wheel spin.
 
We have a Durango, my wife's company car and if there's snow on the ground, once she gets home, she makes me drive her where she needs to go with my 4Runner. The H3 doesn't surprise me, but a stock Durango, I don't know, it sure doesn't drive for me in the snow.
 
JB. said:
Tires make a huge difference in snow. The story sounds a little weird. It could easily just be a tire story.

As far as the ATRAC, next time you have an opportunity to play where you can get pulled out, try a snowy obstacle like you normally would with center locked, and then try it again with the plug pulled to disable all ABS functions. Then you'll know which works better in snow.
Click to expand...

Try some snow tires next year blizzack Dmz 3 or the like and you will notice a big change in the snow.
 
A few things...

1. Despite Toyota's published data, the 4runner's ground clearance is 8.3". Lexus GX470's "minimum" clearance is 8.3". Both are exactly the same vehicle from the frame down. Lexus is telling the truth, while Toyota fudges the data to make themselves look good.

2. Your breakover angle is NOT 28 degrees...despite what Toyota literature says. It is about 23 degrees.

3. Hummer H3's stats are accurate, as are all Hummer stats. Thus, it's ground clearance (and all it's angles for that matter) is significantly better than a stock 4runner.

4. Hummer H3 with Adventure package does come with rear locker standard. The tires are special Bridgestone Dueler AT with triple-ply sidewall (cannot buy these tires aftermarket).

Given the above, it is not surprising that an H3 would outperform a relatively stock 4runner with REVOs. ATRAC on the H3 is also a bit more aggressive, but i think that the H3 did better mostly due to better angles/clearances, super duper low range, and REAR LOCKER. And once he (H3 owner) locks the rear locker, ATRAC goes off, which is a good thing in deep snow where you want as much wheelspin as possible to create forward momentum. This has always been the Achilles' heel of ATRAC...deep mud, deep snow, steep hillclimbs, and anywhere that you need to power yourself out of.

As for the Durango, i am not sure if i can explain it. It could be that the Durango comes with rear locker (or even LSD) or that the owner put one in. That would explain the difference.

Remember, even though you can "rooster" 4 wheels with ATRAC, the system is still slowing those wheel(s) down to some degree (this is what ATRAC is all about). At least some momentum is lost in those instances.

I am not a snow expert (so correct me if i am wrong), but I would be in LOW range next time, if you were not this time. LOW range gives you more control and you still should be able to go fast enough to get out of trouble.
 
Camprunner said:
Try some snow tires next year blizzack Dmz 3 or the like and you will notice a big change in the snow.
Click to expand...

I agree its the revos... These blow in the snow. they are gone as soon as i can get
$600 for all 5.... i had cross terr. and they were much much better... i believe its due to the much less amount of sipes and the cross terr. would hold the snow like the blizz's... tires def the tires
 
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I went out with my friend in the last big snow we had and he had a '99 Durango SLT with BFGs A/Ts and we pretty much were even when it came to climbing up steeper grades when we could make it but my Nittos seemed to get better recovery when purposely throwing the rear end around.
I do have a couple of inches clearance on him but we didn't hit anything that would have showed the diff.

Now in the summer on the off road trails my clearance advantage does show plus with my locker engaged I can easily move up steep uneven grades much better.
I don't think Durangos had a rear locker available.

I think your issues were the tires and not the vehicle but in stock trim an H3 does have a bit of an advantage so that doesn't surprise me.
 
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