Put to shame by an H3 & Durango

[Camprunner]

I had Revo's on my "03" Durango and I think they are a great overall tire but snow was or is not there strong point. The best A/T tire I ever ran in the snow was a tire caled a (Sport King) I was told the original design was from BFG but are sold under small tire companys now like "Fisk" tire and "Cavaleer" tire and others. Many tire sellers around here stock them most people who plow snow or work construction around here run the Sport King tire.

The A/T specific tires I have found worked best in the snow are (in order of best to worst)

1. Sport King (esp- in deep snow)

2. Mastercraft Courser A/T-2 (current tire on the 4runner)

3. BFG A/T KO.

4. Dunlop radial rover RV (not the same as the Radial Rover)

5. Firestone Dest- A/T (great all around tire for the $$$)

6. Bridgstone Dueller APT-3 (sold at Sears)

7. Revos

I have had many others but this is the top seven for "ME" we are talking in the (SNOW) for an A/T tire. (Not a snow specific tire) and not the overall performance of the tire.

 

[Thai]

First of all it

 

[AlexJet]

Alex...YOUR 4runner is not exactly stock! Falls' 4runner is stock except for REVOs i think.

H3 stock vs. 4runner stock...i will have to give it to H3 off-road...on road, there's no comparison.

4runners do NOT come with LSD in front and rear axles...just ATRAC (open diffs operated by braking action). Only the center diff is limited-slip (Torsen).

Ooops, I forgot that I'm not STOCK any more :driving:

I only hope that with FJ cruising the off-road market we'll get some better diffs and lockers soon. So far only ARB has lockers for our trucks.

 

[<==Needs a 4R]

Curb Weight

Hey i don't know if this is a issue or not but I just ran a check on the curb weight of all these vehicles. The Durango is around 1,000lbs heavier then a v8 runner. The h3 is only around 500lbs heavier. But 1,000 lbs more could sure help with traction and momentum.
Just my two bits.

 

[Falls]

All very good points guys , thanks.

The Revos will be gone by end of summer , I just need a little more bite. As for the Blizzaks probably not a good tire for me since I like all terrain. We have Bridgestone AT's ( regular) on our 4x4 ford Escape and I think they bite better than mine.

I hear so many stories about H2 & H3's breaking its hard to believe. Yes I know they had some axle prob's for a while and I think the H2 is just a big pig but I've driven an H3 and they are pretty nimble articulate trucks IMO. I dont care what make, model ect... if you in some crap and you are stressing a driveline turn one way and the rocks , ruts or whatever are stressing the driveline thee other way something has got to give. I think alot of that really depends on the driver and spotters knowledge. You all know how some people can be when they get a 4x4 they feel it can do anything and go anywhere. We all no thats not the case.

I also agree about the Atrac and cutting back some of the power with wheel spin , but it still works pretty well for what it is. The VSC is a different story.....my wife refuses drive the 4R in a snow storm. She thinks its dangerous pulling out into traffic and the power totally cuts off , she has almost got hit a few times from the side and from the rear..... The 4r needs to rethink their 4x4 system if they expect people to use it the way it was built to. Its not bad at all but could be so much better. That probably will not happen since the FJ came out. With her Escape 4x4 V6 she can atleast power up and get moving.

The 4R is a great off roader and I do love the truck

 

[Thai]

Re: Curb Weight

Hey i don't know if this is a issue or not but I just ran a check on the curb weight of all these vehicles. The Durango is around 1,000lbs heavier then a v8 runner. The h3 is only around 500lbs heavier. But 1,000 lbs more could sure help with traction and momentum.

From my experience, I have found that weight is more often than not your enemy off-road...thus, a short-wheelbase Rubicon can beat my G over most terrain even if you take away the angles (approach/departure/etc) advantage.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

Actually the curb weight (not GVWR) of a last gen Durango is 4700lbs which is just about 150 more than the 4th gens and the H3s weigh the same 4700lbs. Where was the 1000 more lbs coming from?

 

[JB.]

Remember, even though you can "rooster" 4 wheels with ATRAC, the system is still slowing those wheel(s) down to some degree (this is what ATRAC is all about). At least some momentum is lost in those instances.

Not arguing, but I don't see this. Sure, wheel momentum is reduced with ATRAC, but it's vehicle momentum that matters. Unless it's simply a matter of the highest wheel spin RPM you can achieve, (in which case high range would be preferred to spin the wheels a fast as possible) I don't see how a spinning, roostering wheel is adversely affecting vehicle momentum in the snow just because it's being braked and slowed a bit.

 

[JB.]

The VSC is a different story.....my wife refuses drive the 4R in a snow storm. She thinks its dangerous pulling out into traffic and the power totally cuts off , she has almost got hit a few times from the side and from the rear...With her Escape 4x4 V6 she can atleast power up and get moving.

Any chance this is simply a perception thing caused by hearing the engine speed reduce and, in fact, the 4runner is actually accelerating in slippery conditions as fast or faster than the Escape?

 

[Thai]

Not arguing, but I don't see this. Sure, wheel momentum is reduced with ATRAC, but it's vehicle momentum that matters. Unless it's simply a matter of the highest wheel spin RPM you can achieve, (in which case high range would be preferred to spin the wheels a fast as possible) I don't see how a spinning, roostering wheel is adversely affecting vehicle momentum in the snow just because it's being braked and slowed a bit.

True...but, if some of the wheels are being braked (slowed), then the vehicle may not move forward as much (as compared to a vehicle with full lockers for example up a hill) and the momentum forward may be uneven due to the brake action. I am not sure if i am typing what i am really meaning but...oh well.

 

[Mr. Lambdebois]

I'd say it was a combination of most importantly #1 tires and #2 the low front skidplate/ front end of the 4runner pushing snow and causing resistance in the heavy snow.

 

[Falls]

Any chance this is simply a perception thing caused by hearing the engine speed reduce and, in fact, the 4runner is actually accelerating in slippery conditions as fast or faster than the Escape?

No not at all , when the VSC kicks in ( diff. not locked ) in snow and it senses slip it will cut off the throttle. I've only noticed this in conditions as slippery as snow.

 

[JungleJim]

Regarding the REVOS....I thought I remember reading here how great they are in snow?

 

[gizmopt2002]

When new yes they are FAR better than the Dunflops but as they wear down and temps get colder they probably are not so good.

 

[ToyotaDan]

Toyotas stock tires BLOW. I bought BFGs and I am all good now.

What makes the H3 4x4 better? I have heard the H3 is amazing off road. Is it manual differential lock or what?

 

[mjbuzby]

Toyotas stock tires BLOW. I bought BFGs and I am all good now.

What makes the H3 4x4 better? I have heard the H3 is amazing off road. Is it manual differential lock or what?

in this specific case i would say ????clearance and def. tires.

 

[Falls]

Jungle Jim,
The Revos were ok when I got them. I bought them only because everyone raved about them on here. They are a decent tire and better than stock , but nothing at all like I expected from reading the raves on here. I've always run BFG AT's on all my trucks and have been extremely happy with them but tried Revos for a change. They ride nice and are nice in rain. Thats all I can say. Never say never but I won't buy them again.


Toyota Dan,
As for the H3 , I did get to drive one through an obstacle course for a day outing and off roading and was very impressed to tell you the truth. I wanted to get one but the only drawback was the underpowered 5 cyl. engine. Plenty of power crawling around off road and on the course , but way underpowered for the street. I do like them though. I hate the H2 with a passion ! Big turd IMO!!

Anyway ..... it was a bad 4R nite of playing , hopefully better wheeling nights to come.

 

[AlexJet]

The Revos were ok when I got them. I bought them only because everyone raved about them on here. They are a decent tire and better than stock , but nothing at all like I expected from reading the raves on here. I've always run BFG AT's on all my trucks and have been extremely happy with them but tried Revos for a change. They ride nice and are nice in rain. Thats all I can say. Never say never but I won't buy them again.

Based on my experience REVOs are much better on packed snow and ice then BFGs. In a deep snow they are as good as BFG, there is no big difference. Rain - yes, REVOs way ahead. I have ~25k on them and they still grip like magnets no matter what conditions are: snow, ice, rain, sand, asphalt, +40C, -30C.

 

[Thai]

What makes the H3 4x4 better? I have heard the H3 is amazing off road. Is it manual differential lock or what?

I am talking about the Adventure Package on H3 only. The advantages are: better clearances, better stock tires, rear locker, and better torque in LOW range (via 4:1 transfer case).

 

[OUTRNNR]

One of the things I think was the problem , besides the crappy tires ( Revos w/20k on them ), is the 4wd system on the 4R , with the diff. unlocked as we all know it will kill the power if you try to do anything and when the diff. is locked , your have the brakes pulsating and slowing your wheel spin to activate Atrac I had my foot heavy into it and really rippin up the RPM to get it moving.

Do you think the 4R's 4x4 system is less superior than the other type you can just lock in and give it hell ?? I personally never thought so , but now wonder a bit .

The Runner will spin all four if you stand on it with the dif locked. There are 4 patches in my parents driveway from when I got stuck there in 30"+ to prove it...