Question for those with 35's w/o LT (Front LCA Mod)

[Jetboy]

Just a topic for conversation at this point.

For those who've run 35's with stock front control arms - what are your thoughts on this?

I've been kicking around the idea of 35's in the next year or two for offroad but don't really want a LT setup.

I have a CNC plasma table and fab equipment. I could probably make a LT set of control arms in a weekend. But that's not really my goal here. I like to take the easy way if it makes sense. I'm thinking about what it would take to tuck 35's in with minimal lift and minimal mods - but also have full range of motion and functional use. Not a show truck.

So... as I see it, I need to relocate the lower ball joint forward to make clearance in the rear. Then I'd start chopping on the front bumper cover/fender liner to fit.

My thought here is to not reinvent the wheel. I'm thinking about taking a set of OEM LCAs and modifying them as shown in the picture. Basically just cutting out the ball joint forging and reversing it side to side. (Don't worry - it ain't my first rodeo, I mean cut the welds out carefully and weld it properly back in- not stick the thing in a band saw and hack off the end and try to weld back a forged suspension part...) By my estimate I'd relocate the lower ball joint forward around .75 inches. I'd also have to modify my UCAs to probably relocate the ball joint back to near where the OEM ball joint used to live to get the caster back in spec. Potentially I could actually just use the OEM UCAs again.

Thoughts? For folks running 35's - do you think this would make enough clearance to solve most of the issues around the BMC/fenderwell area? It seems like .75 or so of extra clearance would solve the biggest issues with rubbing. The front should be a bit easier to make the necessary room from what I can tell.

 

[honda250xtitan]

Just trim your fenders 3/4".

Building LT uppers/lowers is way more then just cutting some sheet metal and welding it together. But have at it.

Why not just stick with a tire size thats actually functional?

 

[Jetboy]

It's probably a lot of effort for minimal benefit. I'm with you on that.

I think the BMC would be a must-do either way. But I don't think it's usually enough to fit 35s anyway. It's more of the fender/firewall problem. For me, designing and manufacturing control arms is pretty easy. A lot easier than having to finish body work properly. I have all the tools to cut and form steel plate. I don't have a paint booth.

I probably won't do it either way unless I happen upon some cheap OEM LCAs I can pickup locally. Mostly just tossing out an idea I've been kicking around.

The biggest benefit of going to flotation sizing is tire options. Specifically more C rated tires in a larger size. Some 35's weigh less than E rated 285's. It would be great if there were some 35" options in a 10.5 width or even 34" tires that weren't all E rated.

 

[Jeremy556]

or even 34" tires that weren't all E rated.

MTR 305/70/17 D rated 34.1" x 12.2" 64lbs

 

[WandaRunner]

I️ have taken my fenderwall back about 2” to make clearance for 35s without rubbing. I️ still hit the body mount when I get really rowdy (chopped as much as I️ possibly can). Note that I️ use steering bumps to keep from hitting my secondary bypasses up front, so 2” fenderwall cut might not be enough if you have full turning radius.

 

[marshal]

if you could move the wheel mounting surface 1" forward, you could do whatever you wanted. thats partly why the LT works so well, all the companies moved the ball joints forward about an inch and a half.

the problem you'll run into is that without moving the upper ball joint forward as well, you'll be ****ing with the caster A LOT and your dive/anti-dive will be jacked.

 

[WandaRunner]

Will has a great point. I’m sure Will can agree that it is an absolute pain to stuff 35s without a LT kit. I wish I would have just sucked it up in the very beginning and gone with a full 3.5 LT upfront and a 44 out back and skipped the icon S2 kit and spending over a year dialing in 35s on stock LCAs. Much more expensive, but way less hassle.
*Side note: Sad to see you go Will. I’ve been creeping on your truck for a long time. Big inspiration. Best of luck with the Power Wagon.

 

[wfo9]

Will has a great point. I’m sure Will can agree that it is an absolute pain to stuff 35s without a LT kit. I wish I would have just sucked it up in the very beginning and gone with a full 3.5 LT upfront and a 44 out back and skipped the icon S2 kit and spending over a year dialing in 35s on stock LCAs. Much more expensive, but way less hassle.
*Side note: Sad to see you go Will. I’ve been creeping on your truck for a long time. Big inspiration. Best of luck with the Power Wagon.

Have to ask what you mean by 44 out back? Surly not a Dana 44.

 

[DesertCanyons]

LCA and big tires

It's probably a lot of effort for minimal benefit. I'm with you on that.

Yes, too much work and cost to avoid spending $1500 on Dirt King's LCA with no extension of front wheelbase, or ($2500?) TC LCA with 3.5" increase of front wheelbase. If you have all those tools and that kind of talent, do what you're good at for money and buy what's already been developed for LT.

... For me, designing and manufacturing control arms is pretty easy. A lot easier than having to finish body work properly. I have all the tools to cut and form steel plate. I don't have a paint booth.

What do you do? Do you operate your own shop? What are you typically manufacturing with all these tools and skill? Yes, Body work is a specialty and the body parts are expensive.

Who needs a spray booth? Just paint it with brush and Rustoleum. For the size of the stuff you're making, painting by hand is easy.

I probably won't do it either way unless I happen upon some cheap OEM LCAs I can pickup locally. Mostly just tossing out an idea I've been kicking around.

Add up the estimated cost. You're 1/3 of the way to buying a LCA from Dirt King, et al.

The biggest benefit of going to flotation sizing is tire options. ...

The easy way to do this is buy a Jeep Wrangler (Ouch, but true). I saw two recently that friends owned. They had added a big lift using King Shocks, updated arms, upgraded steering and a manual sway bar release. Replaced the stock plastic fenders with flat steel fenders and stubby bumpers. Big tires on wide rims. When they got done they had a tricked out off-roader that could go over boulders that we wouldn't even try with a stock or 3" lift on a T4R.

 

[LJ75 Driver]

Surprised this came up, now I do t need to make another thread... I'm actually working with a local off-road shop down here about building some sheet metal knuckles for the 5th gen. Basically I want the knuckle to bolt in like stick to keep the geometry, but just shift the axle/wheel mount assembly forward 1". But it's looking like .75" is the most we'll be able to get before running into fitment issues. But it will make some extra room available when you have a full replacement front bumper for some 35's without needing as much lift.

I come from a different side of off-roading, this SUV thing is tough only being able to put a 33" tire on after a 3" lift without major surgery. I just finished up a dobinson 'long travel' set up, if you wanna call it that. They do. Lol
In the end I want more droop, that's where the suspension on these trucks needs improvement with the IFS. I don't like riding around topped out just to clear the tires.

Stay tuned, it'll be a while, but I'm hoping to report back with some good news. If this works out, the knuckles will be expensive, but worth it. And I'll make a few more sets to sell most likely to cover the initial cost.

 

[Jetboy]

Surprised this came up, now I do t need to make another thread... I'm actually working with a local off-road shop down here about building some sheet metal knuckles for the 5th gen. Basically I want the knuckle to bolt in like stick to keep the geometry, but just shift the axle/wheel mount assembly forward 1". But it's looking like .75" is the most we'll be able to get before running into fitment issues. But it will make some extra room available when you have a full replacement front bumper for some 35's without needing as much lift.

I come from a different side of off-roading, this SUV thing is tough only being able to put a 33" tire on after a 3" lift without major surgery. I just finished up a dobinson 'long travel' set up, if you wanna call it that. They do. Lol
In the end I want more droop, that's where the suspension on these trucks needs improvement with the IFS. I don't like riding around topped out just to clear the tires.

Stay tuned, it'll be a while, but I'm hoping to report back with some good news. If this works out, the knuckles will be expensive, but worth it. And I'll make a few more sets to sell most likely to cover the initial cost.

I'm pretty sure that won't work. Using a fabricated upright to move the spindle center forward will cause geometry problems throughout the turn radius. You really want to keep the spindle on the axis of the pivot between the ball joints.

The ideal way to move the tire forward is to move the control arm mounts on the frame. The second best option is to make new control arms. Moving the spindle on the upright is something I would steer clear from. I don't think it'll be drivable unless you do some crazy stuff with the steering arms.

The biggest fitment issue I see is the axle shaft interference with the shock. It's not terribly hard to move the lower shock mount enough to make some space. The other option is to relocate the diff forward a bit.

For an example Big Mike's (Marlin Crawler) Tacoma has 37's without cutting the firewall and will be on 40's. He has the All Pro LT system but asked them to adjust the jig to move the ball joints forward IIRC 2 inches. Seems to drive well with 37's and that setup.

 

[WandaRunner]

Have to ask what you mean by 44 out back? Surly not a Dana 44.

Good catch, I assumed you could swap a 44 like on the old 4runners. Did some research and it looks like you can’t, crap. Thanks for throwing a wrench in my build plans....

 

[wfo9]

Good catch, I assumed you could swap a 44 like on the old 4runners. Did some research and it looks like you can’t, crap. Thanks for throwing a wrench in my build plans....

I guess you could.. but would not really make sense IMHO.

I think Diamond does drop in custom housings where you could keep your e-locker... and use your diff but get a custom width. That is why I would do if sticking with IFS up front.

If SAS.. then I would probably step up to a 9.5" housing and keep it Toyota oriented.

 

[Jetboy]

I guess you could.. but would not really make sense IMHO.

I think Diamond does drop in custom housings where you could keep your e-locker... and use your diff but get a custom width. That is why I would do if sticking with IFS up front.

If SAS.. then I would probably step up to a 9.5" housing and keep it Toyota oriented.

I would do the same. A D44 is probably weaker than the 8.2 in most D44 forms. Plus it's just less desirable in design for a trail vehicle without a dropout differential. An LC 9.5 would be my most likely choice. Diamond Axle does make a bolt in 9.5 that keeps all your OEM outers including axle shafts, bearings, ABS, and has all the tabs for a bolt in install. That's what I'd do.

They would make you a front axle to re-use your rear e-locker too if you wanted. It would be ideal IMO to custom fab outer knuckles that would use a D60 inner C and use the IFS spindle assembly for the outer C and retain the OEM CV outer shafts with custom inner shafts. They're super strong and in a solid axle form they'd be even better. Plus you'd re-use a ton of parts and could probably keep the costs in check pretty well.


OTOH - I can buy an FJ80 with front and rear lockers for $2500 and just put a cheap lift on and go play. Hard to make any sort of argument for spending $15k on a 4runner to do the same thing.

 

[wfo9]

OTOH - I can buy an FJ80 with front and rear lockers for $2500 and just put a cheap lift on and go play. Hard to make any sort of argument for spending $15k on a 4runner to do the same thing.

Ha, there is actually a guy I know with a locked 80 for sale for 3k. But the body is completely destroyed to the point that it could never be repaired to look decent... the rear doors don't open...

The ones in good shape of an sort... People want like 20k even though they have 200k on the OD. It's just stupid what some people think they are worth now. I always planned to build one and do an LS swap.. but now I'm just thinking of making my 5th gen the ultimate project truck at some point. The parts will be ripe for the picking in the coming years.... But I must have that LS.

 

[Jetboy]

Ha, there is actually a guy I know with a locked 80 for sale for 3k. But the body is completely destroyed to the point that it could never be repaired to look decent... the rear doors don't open...

The ones in good shape of an sort... People want like 20k even though they have 200k on the OD. It's just stupid what some people think they are worth now. I always planned to build one and do an LS swap.. but now I'm just thinking of making my 5th gen the ultimate project truck at some point. The parts will be ripe for the picking in the coming years.... But I must have that LS.

There's been a handful for sale here for a while in that price range. Most of them are just unmolested old daily driver looking trucks. If I had more shop/parking space I'd be all over one. My wife veto'd buying a surplus Humvee last month - because of parking, so I started looking for a vacant lot to buy first. I was on the same thought process - $5k surplus Humvee plus LS engine swap = cheap fun. And it already starts with a TH400, so the conversion is probably pretty easy.