Question re: winch cable wiring

[Quetico]

This weekend I installed a Warn VR8000 on a Budbuilt Hidden Winch plate. I am still trying to figure out the control box wiring, and could use some advice. For some reason, Warn only includes ~12" cables from the control box to the winch. I want to mount the control box in the engine bay, so I need to change out the stock cables for something longer - I'm thinking ~36".

The stock cables are marked "25MM2 105*C", which I interpret as 2 gauge. I checked my local Advanced Auto and all I can find is 4 gauge 40" "switch to starter battery cable". Their selection was limited as I need side post fittings on both ends, which are hard to find. So would this cable work for my intended use? I don't want to create a fire/safety hazard for myself, and I also want the unit to work if/when I need it. If those cables are not recommended, is there a better source for cables besides AA?

Similar to the above question, the thin motor ground wire would also need to be extended; however, one end goes into the remote control connector. Could I splice this wire to add the extra length?

Appreciate any thoughts on this!

 

[fourwd1]

A 4 ga cable is lighter than a 2 ga cable, you'd want at least the same, or heavier.

 

[bft4.7]

I agree to stick with 2 guage wiring at least, as winches take a large load to run. You can get it at local car audio installation shops. Also are you planning to run the winch off the side terminals? I ask since you said you needed the terminal connectors for the side posts too, maybe i miss read that.... Unless the main terminals run off the side posts, then that is a bad idea. Unless you really need to, keep the ground wire as short as possible.

 

[SV_Dude]

Go to a welding shop and ask for 2ga welding cable. If you get fancy stuff from a stereo shop you will pay more and the shielding won't hold up to weather very well.

 

[zopperman]

Amazon.com: IMC Audio 0 Gauge Power Cable Wire: Electronics

also isn't a longer run of wire more vulnerable to failure?

 

[4ever4running]

Here's how I rewired the control box for my Engo. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...ning-s-2002-4runner-build-12.html#post1294438. I ended up using 4 gauge wire since that is what came stock with the Engo and 2 gauge wouldn't fit through the weatherproof grommets on the control box. I'm not sure what gauge comes with the Warn, but I would recommend replacing it with the same gauge.

I bought the wire from here (this links to 4 gauge wire, but they also sell 0 and 2 gauge): KnuKonceptz KCA Kable 4 Gauge Power Wire Red : Amazon.com : Automotive. This wire is awesome and I highly recommend it! It is true to the gauge advertised, really flexible so you can run it where/how you need to, and it is sold by the foot so you only have to buy as much as you need.

 

[harper7]

This weekend I installed a Warn VR8000 on a Budbuilt Hidden Winch plate. I am still trying to figure out the control box wiring, and could use some advice. For some reason, Warn only includes ~12" cables from the control box to the winch. I want to mount the control box in the engine bay, so I need to change out the stock cables for something longer - I'm thinking ~36".

The stock cables are marked "25MM2 105*C", which I interpret as 2 gauge. I checked my local Advanced Auto and all I can find is 4 gauge 40" "switch to starter battery cable". Their selection was limited as I need side post fittings on both ends, which are hard to find. So would this cable work for my intended use? I don't want to create a fire/safety hazard for myself, and I also want the unit to work if/when I need it. If those cables are not recommended, is there a better source for cables besides AA?

Similar to the above question, the thin motor ground wire would also need to be extended; however, one end goes into the remote control connector. Could I splice this wire to add the extra length?

Appreciate any thoughts on this!

Here's some other ones on Amazon that would probably meet your needs. Your going to have to crimp cable ends with heat shrink on the ends to meet your needs anyways as chances of having exactly what your ends are at the exact perfect length are slim.
Amazon.com: Power Bright 2-AWG3 2 AWG Gauge 3-Foot Professional Series Inverter Cables: Electronics

Amazon.com: Power Bright 0-AWG3 0 AWG Gauge 3-Foot Professional Series Inverter Cables: Patio, Lawn & Garden

 

[cordrayj1]

i agree w the welding shop idea. thats where i got mine. high quality, fine copper strands, which transfers the power better. and will pro be the cheapest route too

 

[fourwd1]

Spending extra money for fancy car audio power wires for a winch is a waste.
It's a DC motor, nothing more.

 

[4ever4running]

I paid $0.95 per foot, I would say that is pretty cheap. And I used copper terminals that I soldered onto the ends so I didn't have to mess with crimping anything.

 

[jdkilroy]

The wire gauge supplied with the winch is related to the length of the wire; if you are going to lengthen it by any significant amount you likely need to increase the capacity (guage) of the wire as well. It is not unusual for a winch to draw 400 amps under load.

Do you research, know what you are dealing with and build your system accordingly.

4ever, soldering the connectors is great for good conducting with minimal losses/resistance but the solder should not be relied on for mechanical connection. The fittings should be crimped/compressed securely first and then soldered for best conductivity.

The heat that can be generated under sustained loads can easily melt solder.

Remember, you can weld steel with a battery.

 

[4ever4running]

4ever, soldering the connectors is great for good conducting with minimal losses/resistance but the solder should not be relied on for mechanical connection. The fittings should be crimped/compressed securely first and then soldered for best conductivity.

The heat that can be generated under sustained loads can easily melt solder.

Remember, you can weld steel with a battery.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but do you know anything about soldering?

Because if you did, you would know that electrical rosin core solder requires approximately 425-450 degrees Fahrenheit to melt. So, I'm sorry but your statement about the wiring getting hot enough to melt the solder is completely false. Winches do draw a lot of amps, but that is exactly why they use 2-4 gauge wires, so they can handle the load safely without running the risk of overheating. If your winch wires are hot enough to melt solder then you either didn't use the correct gauge of wire or you have a short somewhere.

 

[eddiebx]

The wire gauge supplied with the winch is related to the length of the wire; if you are going to lengthen it by any significant amount you likely need to increase the capacity (guage) of the wire as well. It is not unusual for a winch to draw 400 amps under load.

Do you research, know what you are dealing with and build your system accordingly.

4ever, soldering the connectors is great for good conducting with minimal losses/resistance but the solder should not be relied on for mechanical connection. The fittings should be crimped/compressed securely first and then soldered for best conductivity.

The heat that can be generated under sustained loads can easily melt solder.

Remember, you can weld steel with a battery.

Soldering is actually not as good for conducting with minimal resistance loss versus proper crimping because a proper crimp would practically "fuse" the metals together, so to speak; whereas soldering would add another resistance barrier because one would be conducting between the terminal and wire through the solder that's holding it together. Soldering a properly crimped connection would add zero benefits as far as conductivity goes.

With that said, OEM manufacturers go through a lot of calculations to achieve proper crimping pressure to achieve this "fusion" based on the crimp sleeve size, inserted wire size, die size, etc...so there's really no one size fits all here. It's certainly not as simple as crimping her down "good-n-tight" and calling it a day.

Which leads me to my final point, a bad crimp connection will fail just as fast as a poor solder connection, so one should not automatically frown upon a solder connection because crimping seems better. Unless you are highly trained at making proper crimps and have all of the right tools to make a proper crimp connection, I doubt you're doing it any better than a good solder joint.

I do agree that since most hobbyists don't have the means to create a proper crimp connection, we should make do with what we have and crimp and solder for the best of both worlds; but telling a guy to do his research when you haven't done your own is just in poor taste.

 

[4ever4running]

Soldering is actually not as good for conducting with minimal resistance loss versus proper crimping because a proper crimp would practically "fuse" the metals together, so to speak; whereas soldering would add another resistance barrier because one would be conducting between the terminal and wire through the solder that's holding it together. Soldering a properly crimped connection would add zero benefits as far as conductivity goes.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this point. I am not an electrical professional by any means, but a properly soldered joint should NOT add any sort of a resistance barrier. The solder is designed/made to conduct electricity so it doesn't make sense that it would add a resistance barrier and essentially not do what it is designed to do.

Which leads me to my final point, a bad crimp connection will fail just as fast as a poor solder connection, so one should not automatically frown upon a solder connection because crimping seems better. Unless you are highly trained at making proper crimps and have all of the right tools to make a proper crimp connection, I doubt you're doing it any better than a good solder joint.

I do agree that since most hobbyists don't have the means to create a proper crimp connection, we should make do with what we have and crimp and solder for the best of both worlds; but telling a guy to do his research when you haven't done your own is just in poor taste.

I agree completely.

I decided to solder my terminals because I didn't have the proper crimping tool (the reality is that most of us don't) and I didn't want to try a cheaper method (hit them with a hammer or press them in a vice) because I know that they don't provide a solid connection and are prone to failure.

In the end there should be no difference between a properly soldered joint and a properly crimped joint, but the key is that the respective method is done properly.

 

[eddiebx]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this point. I am not an electrical professional by any means, but a properly soldered joint should NOT add any sort of a resistance barrier. The solder is designed/made to conduct electricity so it doesn't make sense that it would add a resistance barrier and essentially not do what it is designed to do.

Sorry, I just realized that I did not elaborate my statement enough before. It wasn't my intention to make it seem like soldering is going to create significant resistance by any means. I figured since we were splitting atoms here I would point out that soldering is actually the less conductive method of the two

The simplest way to visualize this is, if you take two solid pieces of wire and press them together firmly, we'd have just one contact surface that creates a bit of resistance; this is our crimp connection.

Whereas with soldering, you'd basically be holding two pieces of solid wire together (with a bit of solder in between), so we'd end up with two contact surfaces that create resistance; one being the first wire contacting the solder and the second being the other wire contacting the other side of the solder. It's a bit more complex than that because you'd have to factor in how tightly the wires are held together before soldering, which dictates how large of a gap the solder has to fill; thus creating more or less resistance.

Practically speaking here, you'd find no measurable resistance difference between crimping/soldering, and I doubt any of us have ohm meters that measure so finitely, nor would it really matter for what we use it for.

 

[jdkilroy]

My post was not intended to offend but reflects the importance (to me) of proper wiring (especially with high amperage loads) in a vehicle where a electrical fire rarely ends in anything short of disaster.

That said, it seems clear that there are engineers here of significantly higher caliber than myself so I will let you guys sort it out.

 

[eddiebx]

My post was not intended to offend but reflects the importance (to me) of proper wiring (especially with high amperage loads) in a vehicle where a electrical fire rarely ends in anything short of disaster.

That said, it seems clear that there are engineers here of significantly higher caliber than myself so I will let you guys sort it out.

Sorry, I truly meant no harm towards anyone either. We're all just here to discuss and learn from each other

We can all agree good wiring practice is important and the best way to stop an electrical fire is to prevent it from happening.

 

[4ever4running]

Sorry, I just realized that I did not elaborate my statement enough before. It wasn't my intention to make it seem like soldering is going to create significant resistance by any means. I figured since we were splitting atoms here I would point out that soldering is actually the less conductive method of the two

The simplest way to visualize this is, if you take two solid pieces of wire and press them together firmly, we'd have just one contact surface that creates a bit of resistance; this is our crimp connection.

Whereas with soldering, you'd basically be holding two pieces of solid wire together (with a bit of solder in between), so we'd end up with two contact surfaces that create resistance; one being the first wire contacting the solder and the second being the other wire contacting the other side of the solder. It's a bit more complex than that because you'd have to factor in how tightly the wires are held together before soldering, which dictates how large of a gap the solder has to fill; thus creating more or less resistance.

Practically speaking here, you'd find no measurable resistance difference between crimping/soldering, and I doubt any of us have ohm meters that measure so finitely, nor would it really matter for what we use it for.

Thanks for the clarification, that makes a lot more sense. I agree that, practically speaking, there will be little difference between crimping and soldering as long as they are done correctly.

My post was not intended to offend but reflects the importance (to me) of proper wiring (especially with high amperage loads) in a vehicle where a electrical fire rarely ends in anything short of disaster.

That said, it seems clear that there are engineers here of significantly higher caliber than myself so I will let you guys sort it out.

I didn't mean to offend you, so I apologize if I did.

I think we can all agree that proper wiring is important and when done incorrectly can result in disaster. As I said before, I am no engineer or professional, however, I do know a thing or two about wiring and soldering so I am simply trying to provide the most accurate information.