Question regarding stock suspension and towing

[macscac]

So I have stock Offroad suspension with just a level kit in front and I don’t have plans on doing a legit lift for a year or so however we just picked up our trailer today and because of the weight I am sagging terribly in the rear so I am curious of your opinions.

Is there a heavier duty set of springs that I can replace to eliminate the sag or do I need to get airbags in the back?

My goal is to do this as cost effectively as possible because I do intend on getting a nice lift next year I just need to make this work in the meanwhile.

Thank you!


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[MAST4R]

Ditching the leveling kit is always a good idea for towing

I had 1.25 front coils and I was flat with just a day trip load and not good at all for weekend camping. I added 1" rear springs that I will keep when I get performance shocks (if).

So maybe choose the spring you will use later. Dobinsons have great springs. I have their in the front but went Eibach for the smallest possible rear lift (1) and spring rate increase (12%). DObinsons has a 1.25 rear spring with 20% increase and up from there on both height and/or capability.

I would not personally go over 1.25 on the OEM shocks so if you want a bigger rear coil for your future lift, all you can really do is ditch the leveling kit to improve the handling. And add airbags (not familiar with those).

 

[macscac]

Well I’m not removing the front spacer so I just have to get the back inline (there’s no spacers in the back)

I don’t know much about springs.
Which one of these are you referring to as the 1.25” heavy duty?

2014+ | Dobinsons Direct


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[MAST4R]

Well I’m not removing the front spacer so I just have to get the back inline (there’s no spacers in the back)

I don’t know much about springs.
Which one of these are you referring to as the 1.25” heavy duty?

2014+ | Dobinsons Direct


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They all start at 20% stiffness over stock. This is in part to compensate for the lift, in part to carry heavier loads. The one I had in mind is C59-599.

Use this info here instead and shoot [MENTION=148378]Dobinsons Mike[/MENTION] an email, the email is in the opening post. He is super helpful, just tell him exactly what you want and he will make a suggestion. I am no "spring guy" either:

Dobinsons 5th Gen T4R Suspension options - lots of choices

 

[macscac]

Thank you I will do that!


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[sbayha]

Look up air helper spring kits ... budget alternative. May be able to install them yourself.


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[macscac]

If I go that route I may not need any new springs and that could hold me over untill I get a lift yes?



1998-2019 Toyota 4Runner - Firestone Coil-Rite Air Bag Helper Springs (NO-DRILL) [REAR] [4135] | $85.95 | SD Truck Springs | Leaf Springs, Helper Springs and Suspension Parts



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[jhguth]

airbags alone will just increase the weight on the rear and decrease the weight on the front (i.e. where your steering comes from).

what's the tongue weight? i'd look into a weight distribution hitch, it will allow the front and trailer axles to help support the weight instead of just your rear axle. you can use airbags with a WDH, you'll just want to inflate the airbags first before setting up your WDH (axle weights are more important than if it looks level)

 

[macscac]

Hitch weight is 396
I would like to avoid a weight dist hitch if possible. The truck/trailer have zero wobble or sway or bounce issues during our 320 mile trip home with it yesterday.



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[Crikeymike]

Hitch weight is 396
I would like to avoid a weight dist hitch if possible. The truck/trailer have zero wobble or sway or bounce issues during our 320 mile trip home with it yesterday.



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I'm impressed you know the hitch weight! Almost everyone that I help with towing isn't sure of it, and that info really helps when choosing coils.

Most cost effective would be airbags, like the other folks have suggested.

C59-599 rear 1" lift coils (with no load) are 220LB rate each, so 440LBS on the rear axle would drop them down to stock height. Your weight is off the hitch though, so it will have a little more affect than that due to the leverage, aka be a little bit lower. C59-505 are 1.5" so with the towing weight, that might be more ideal.

You're at ~$100 or less for airbags, or $205 for a pair of coils, basically.

 

[macscac]

I'm impressed you know the hitch weight! Almost everyone that I help with towing isn't sure of it, and that info really helps when choosing coils.



Most cost effective would be airbags, like the other folks have suggested.



C59-599 rear 1" lift coils (with no load) are 220LB rate each, so 440LBS on the rear axle would drop them down to stock height. Your weight is off the hitch though, so it will have a little more affect than that due to the leverage, aka be a little bit lower. C59-505 are 1.5" so with the towing weight, that might be more ideal.



You're at ~$100 or less for airbags, or $205 for a pair of coils, basically.

Mike, thanks for the response!
I emailed you as well.
Would the 505’s give me a noticeable rake in the rear when NOT towing?
I’m ok with some btw



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[macscac]

I’m going to give the 1.5’s a go.

Mike emailed me that the 1.5’s would be best given that my front spacer is lifting my front 2.25”

Will report back once they’re here and installed!


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[CavPro]

Hitch weight is 396
I would like to avoid a weight dist hitch if possible. The truck/trailer have zero wobble or sway or bounce issues during our 320 mile trip home with it yesterday.

Is that a brochure tongue weight? Chances are it is, which means that weight doesn't include propane bottles or batteries, so right off the top you have significantly underestimated the tongue weight, that will get heavier with load. Most people do and the dealers will not tell you differently. Why don't you want a weight distribution hitch? This directly impacts the issue you are trying to fix?

 

[macscac]

Is that a brochure tongue weight? Chances are it is, which means that weight doesn't include propane bottles or batteries, so right off the top you have significantly underestimated the tongue weight, that will get heavier with load. Most people do and the dealers will not tell you differently. Why don't you want a weight distribution hitch? This directly impacts the issue you are trying to fix?

in my experience, weight dist hitches are predominately for correcting sway, bobbing and stabilization. I have none of those issues as its an 19 foot trailer including the tongue.

the weight dist hitches are just more sh*t to bolt on and hook/unhook and store and just not something that I feel that we want nor need.

The problem with my sagging ( I believe ) is due to the spacer lift that I have in front. It is magnifying the lack of lift in the rear.
The springs that I ordered from robinson will provide a 1.5" lift in the rear but will also support an additional 500lbs of weight which should eliminate the sag and keep me level.

I am not arguing the fact that those style hitches do spread the weight and will help with keeping everything level but in this situation, I believe it is my truck suspension and nothing to do w/ the tongue weight.

if I am wrong, I am wrong and we will find out in a few weeks.
I will update this as we go!

 

[5thToy]

I went down the heavier rear spring road on a leveled 06 Tundra. Didn't like the stiff ride when not towing with the front and rear responding differently to terrain. Ended up with bags.

 

[macscac]

I went down the heavier rear spring road on a leveled 06 Tundra. Didn't like the stiff ride when not towing. Ended up with bags.

Yeah we will see how it affects the ride.

I'm just hoping that it will get me thru the next 6+ months until I get an entire suspension and dump the front spacers

 

[ProfessorP]

I’ve had my 20’ boat for 15 years and hauled it with 5 different vehicles. The T4R isn’t the worst, but it’s certainly not the best at hauling.

My trailer completely loaded with the boat, all the fishing crap, trolling motor and a full tank of gas is 4,260 pounds (certified truck scale) with a tongue weight of 298 pounds. My suspension is completely stock. The rear drops about 1 1/8” with the rig hitched up and looks about level with maybe a tiny bit of rake left.

I realize that travel trailers are completely different than boat trailers, but the level kit is really hurting you. I would probably start with airbags on the rear then consider a WD hitch. Best option is probably better springs, but that may end up making for a harsh ride when not hauling. If you want to solve a lot of the problem go back to the stock rake.

Good luck whatever you decide!

 

[yardsale]

You need a WD hitch. They are not to control sway, they put some of the load on the front of your tow vehicle, when adjusted properly. Tongue weight controls sway, it should be minimum 15% of what the trailer actually weighs loaded. 18-20% is better.

Sway control bars control sway, but they are a band-aid for an improper setup.

Further, if your poor 4runner looks like that with an empty trailer, wait till you load it with a thousand pounds of water, food, dishes, clothes, and everything else you think you need or will acquire.

A 4runner would be better off with a teardrop trailer or maybe a small tent trailer.

 

[Jetboy]

Just for some reference here:

Stock rear springs IIRC are about 180lb/in. Meaning they will compress 1 inch with every 180lb added. You have two in the rear. So you should expect 360lb of weight to compress the rear 1". If you have 500lb of gear in the back and another 400lb of tongue weight - you should expect the rear to drop about 2.5" And that's what it looks like you are experiencing.

Air helper springs will provide additional support as will stiffer springs. There is a big difference between the two however in that air springs are very progressive in spring rate (meaning they get a lot firmer as they compress) while coil springs are usually linear. So the ride quality is quite a bit different both loaded and unloaded.

I prefer the ride of springs generally, but I like air bags for towing or hauling because they actually will ride firmer than coil springs under heavier weight. I don't know that there is a perfect solution for every use. It's really hard to make something ride well both under heavy load and light load. I think if you're doing a lot of towing - I'd probably consider both a slightly taller/heavier rear spring (not extreme heavy) and air helper springs for when you're really loaded up.

 

[rb92673]

Get your tongue weight measured and figure out how much weight you have in the back of your 4Runner. I would bet you need to redistribute your weight better.