Re-gear and locker question

[J-money$$$]

well right now with 33's and 4.10's my 4runner will go over 100 mph. which is highly unnecessary... i wouldnt care about having a max speed( for crusing the freeway not redline) at 75 mph. as is i need to be in 4th at 75 to have high enough rpms to go up a hill

 

[brian2sun]

i have never broken an axle with a truetrac, and ive never heard of anyone having this happen. a guy i used to wheel all time with when i lived in CA has an 04 taco with a supercharger and truetrac up front(Elocker rear) and he drives the piss out of it(4 lift with 33s and 488 gears) he has never broken a CV. the truetrac will not add that much "resistance" to break stuff, its a limited slip(all be it an aggressive one) but it will not "bind up" your front drive train enough to brake stuff, unless you are just abusing things and being stupid and then you would probably end up braking a CV anyways. yes the ARB up front would be selectable and give you a fully locked front end, but its also another $400-500 over a truetrac. the added benefit the truetrac will give you in the snow and ice and just normal trail driving will be night and day, which you wont get with the ARB unless you lock it up and risk braking things.

Yeah, I wasn't arguing which is better, they both are good IMO and both have positives and negatives. But I was making the point that TrueTracs could be harder on the CVs overall than an ARB. It's logical because generally they put more than "normal" stress on them for a lot longer interval than an ARB - which puts a little more stress still, but for a much shorter amount of time. I don't think enough research has been done to say without a doubt which is harder over time. But one thing is for sure.. you can break CVs with either the ARB or the TrueTrac.

People bust CVs with open diffs all the time and there's always going more stress on them with any traction device. LINY4runner just broke one on the rocks like 2 weeks ago (check out his build thread and his Rousch Creek thread) and he has a TrueTrac.

 

[bNugs]

so to save making another thread and since this is on the same topic what is the negatives to having 33 without regearing? i have a std 02 limited and think i have the 4.10 gears. i see alot of people running 33s on here and hardly any of them have in their sig that they regeared so is it safe to assume thats its really not that bad on a DD

 

[Mr. Leary]

so to save making another thread and since this is on the same topic what is the negatives to having 33 without regearing? i have a std 02 limited and think i have the 4.10 gears. i see alot of people running 33s on here and hardly any of them have in their sig that they regeared so is it safe to assume thats its really not that bad on a DD

It will not be too noticeable until you add weight... but once you do... the truck will be a pig.

Stock gears are great for small tires and light weight. Change either of these variable too much or start adding into a combination of the two and you will definitely start to hate the lack of power.

 

[Bighead2001]

It will not be too noticeable until you add weight... but once you do... the truck will be a pig.

Stock gears are great for small tires and light weight. Change either of these variable too much or start adding into a combination of the two and you will definitely start to hate the lack of power.

Well said.

 

[muddertrucker99]

I would have to agree with Leary on the 5.29's They are a bit to much on the road and are great off the road. You'll be like a semi truck. You'll never have to gear down on the interstate. Plus you'll havre to change gears really quick

 

[infamousRNR]

wanted to re-vive this thread...

by doing an e-locker retrofit with a rear axel from a 4runner that had one,,,, what are my options for the front gearing? should i just lock the front while I'm at it too?

 

[the great him]

wanted to re-vive this thread...

by doing an e-locker retrofit with a rear axel from a 4runner that had one,,,, what are my options for the front gearing? should i just lock the front while I'm at it too?

well you need to know what gear ratio you have with that elocker and what gear ratio you have in your 4runner currently. if its same same, then i wouldnt bother tearing into it, just run it as it is. if one is different than the other, id change both. go to 4.88 if you are gonna change, anything less is worthless. i am now running 4.88s and have locked up both ends -i got a deal i could not refuse on the front ARB(at ARB employee cost for both) and sense i was doing gears as well i already had it open. 4.88s and my truck are just barely enough, if i knew before doing this what i know now i would have gone 5.29s.
the other option you have is get the matching front diff that came with the rear elocker. that is the only other way i would change gearing. its not worth opening up the front clamshell and not putting new gears in that will really change things -what i mean is 4.10s and 4.30s are not a big enough change to be noticeable. i ran a 4.10 front end with a 4.30 rear end for over a year and never broke anything and i wheeled it hard. sure i had some binding issues on packed ground and some traction issues in snow and ice on the road, but otherwise no harm -it was noticeable sure, but it took me a year to figure out what i had done and what the issue was.

 

[infamousRNR]

gears

[MENTION=60147]the great him[/MENTION]

i believe the rear end i got (full axel) is a 4:30...

how do you tell what you have besides opening up the gears?

is it a VIN number thing?

 

[the great him]

[MENTION=60147]the great him[/MENTION]

i believe the rear end i got (full axel) is a 4:30...

how do you tell what you have besides opening up the gears?

is it a VIN number thing?

yes. when you take the rear out count the teeth on the rear gears and that will tell you what you have. but yes the VIN tag on the door should have an axle code

 

[infamousRNR]

gearing

[MENTION=60147]the great him[/MENTION]

thanks for the info dude. very helpful.... how many teeth will be in a 4:30?


what am i looking for on this sticker?


..

 

[AZ_Trails]

The axle code on the door is less than reliable, but it's not a bad place to start.

 

[AZ_Trails]

From that sticker, your axle code is A03A. Give that a quick google and you'll find some info about it. But unfortunately, not very reliable. Best way to be sure is to count teeth. Divide the number of teeth on your ring gear by the number of teeth on the pinion gear, and that's your ratio (i.e. 43/10=4.30)

 

[infamousRNR]

now if your rear axel has a certain ratio.. then its safe to assume your front diff is the same ratio... unless some supernatural occurrence happened...

is there a typical ration for a certain year? for automatic? for limited.. just as general discussion... fact will come from counting teeth or doing spin test

 

[D Farms]

i think its a combo of engine, transmission and tire size, and whethera its 4x4. mine came with a v6 and 15" wheels and an auto trans and 4x and i have 3.93 gears, the 4.56 came on some 4cyl with 4wd, its the most sought after stock diff ratio if it has a locker, but its rare and hard to find. in general though most v6 4wd with auto came with 4.30, the standards came with 4.10, since the standard can deliver the torque more efficiently to the wheels. and as said above the door code wont tell you for sure, you need to do a spin test and count the revolutions to tell.

 

[the great him]

i think its a combo of engine, transmission and tire size, and whethera its 4x4. mine came with a v6 and 15" wheels and an auto trans and 4x and i have 3.93 gears, the 4.56 came on some 4cyl with 4wd, its the most sought after stock diff ratio if it has a locker, but its rare and hard to find. in general though most v6 4wd with auto came with 4.30, the standards came with 4.10, since the standard can deliver the torque more efficiently to the wheels. and as said above the door code wont tell you for sure, you need to do a spin test and count the revolutions to tell.

that is not true, there is no factual basis for this at all. i have seen more 3.4l with autos have the 4.10 than i have seen have the 4.30. but that doesnt mean that more of them came with 4.10s... its totally random why some vehicles have some gears in them. i have seen plenty of 4.30s in 5spds as well its random. the only thing i will say is that the Elockers is most prominent in the 4.30 gear ratio, but also available in 4.10, and 4.56

yes if the rear is one, then its safe to assume the front is the same. the only way that would not be true is if someone had changed out a differential or 3rd member to another unit and not checked gearing(i know people who have done this). and a manual trans will not transfer torque to the wheels more efficiently than an auto. it all depends on the situation or the environment and how its being used and the operator. the bigger factor here is that the autos are a 3spd with overdrive(4spd), and the manuals are a 5spd, thus different gearing in the trans and that has more of an effect than weather or not its a manual or auto -say you put a 4spd manual in the truck or a 5spd auto... reverse the roles here, the auto trans will have a greater range, thus typically requiring a lower numerically(taller) gear ratio to do the same work the fewer the gears in a trans mission the greater their respective range must be per gear. it being a auto or manual has nothing to do with it, its the number of gears. and the other big factor was weather or not the vehicle came with "tow package" ie the tow bar and bigger brakes(larger 16" wheels) but again both 4.10 and 4.30 ratios were available from the factory with that set up. -and its not how it was ordered, sure you could have ordered your 4runner set up in almost any configuration you wanted, but id bet 80% or more just bought it off the dealer lot as how it sat. so what ever gears where put in it at in japan was how it was sold. -these where not "build to order" vechiels

yes counting the teeth on the pinion and the ring gear will tell you. -easy cheat, both 4.10 and 4.30 have 10 pinion teeth, so just count the ring, if there is 41 teeth you have a 4.10 gear set, if you have 43 teeth you have a 4.30 gear set. no the ring gears will not interchange so dont try to put a 4.30 ring gear with a 4.10 pinion or vice versa.

 

[NCRidgeRunner]

How about for towing (with stock tire size?)

Sorry to post this here, but the forum will not let me start a new thread.

I have an 02 auto (so 4.10 I'm guessing). I tow a 2000lb trailer daily in the mountains of East Tennessee. I will not be putting anything but 265/70r16's on it ever. I will not be lifting it (stock height is plenty for me) and the worst terrain it deals with is the occasional rutted-out driveway.

My question is this: To get better towing power and reduce gear hunting (Yes, I ALWAYS turn off the overdrive when towing) should I go with 4.56 or 4.88? My top highway speed is 75 or so, but that is very rare for me, as I have another vehicle that I use for road trips, etc. Also, before you ask, getting another vehicle is not an option that I am even remotely willing to consider (my 4Runner is too much of a treasured possession) and neither are 4.30 gears. (And yes, I do realize that I use parentheses a lot)

Thanks, in advance, for the help!

 

[Sean K.]

Sorry to post this here, but the forum will not let me start a new thread.

I have an 02 auto (so 4.10 I'm guessing). I tow a 2000lb trailer daily in the mountains of East Tennessee. I will not be putting anything but 265/70r16's on it ever. I will not be lifting it (stock height is plenty for me) and the worst terrain it deals with is the occasional rutted-out driveway.

My question is this: To get better towing power and reduce gear hunting (Yes, I ALWAYS turn off the overdrive when towing) should I go with 4.56 or 4.88? My top highway speed is 75 or so, but that is very rare for me, as I have another vehicle that I use for road trips, etc. Also, before you ask, getting another vehicle is not an option that I am even remotely willing to consider (my 4Runner is too much of a treasured possession) and neither are 4.30 gears. (And yes, I do realize that I use parentheses a lot)

Thanks, in advance, for the help!

With that size tire and 4.56s....you're going to get a decent decrease in MPG. 4.88s will give you a lot more grunt.....but it may really run too high in the rpm range at 75....and the mileage will be even worse.

In short, don't "guess". Look up the code on the door and figure out what you have. If you have 4.10s, 4.56s are going to be a pretty big difference in rpms and mpg. If you have 4.30s....it will probably be a workable solution that won't break the bank in terms of mpgs.

 

[NCRidgeRunner]

Thanks for your helpful reply! An MPG reduction is expected, but I'd rather spend more in gas and put less strain on the engine and transmission. My 4Runner gear hunts pretty badly even when it's totally empty, and I'm always nervous about destroying my transmission. Of course, I could be waaay off on all of this too, in that I'm assuming lower gearing will give everything else an easier life (albeit with higher RPMs and the wear and tear associated with that). What do you think?

As far as my current gearing goes, I guess I should clarify. I'm saying that I "guess" it's a 4.10 because that's what the axle charts say, but then I read threads saying that the charts are "notoriously inaccurate" as well. (I used the one on Sonoran Steel's site)

 

[6wheelin]

Yeah the living dead again rises.

It arguable that an ARB locker in the front is safer than a TrueTrac for breaking CVs. On an ADD diff like we have (as opposed to having manual hubs), whenever you are in in 4x4, the TrueTrac will be working and therefore be putting more resistance on your front drive axles - at all times when you are in any mode of 4x4. An ARB however runs open 99% of the time even when you're in 4x4. So I think of it this way...

So yet another revive of an old thread but since I'm new to the forum and I haven't reached the new 15 post threshold I figure you guys can forgive me.

I'm new to off road 4 wheelin (I have driven off road in Death Valley but none of the really challenging passes) and in the process of building a overland rig. So my intention is not rock crawling per se. However sometimes when you want to get to a rad campsite you need to get past a gatekeeper, some insurance is nice. It seems to me the above referenced quote makes sense. If your in a sticky situation and you have both front and rear lockers engaged probably not a good idea to plan on much steering, seems that's when there'd be the greatest torque on the front axles and potential for breakage.

When you're on the trails and in 4x4, a TrueTrac will be putting more stress than usual on the front drivetrain 100% of the time. An ARB will put no extra stress on the front drivetrain until you turn it on in those situations that it's actually needed and that is only about 1% of the time (that's about all I need to use it). During that 1% of the time, you will be fully locked up there and put more stress on the CVs for that moment than a TrueTrac, but I had to ask myself which is better - having more risk of breaking CVs whenever I'm in 4x4, or just the few moments here and there when I actually need the extra traction?

You can break CVs with either the ARB or the TrueTrac. But I chose the ARB because I believe if you use the ARB sparingly and really only when it's necessary, you'll put less overall stress on the drivetrain and the ARB provides even more traction for those sticky situations becuase it will still turn both tires when one is off the ground (and that happens all the time).

Like he says here. That's my plan for using a front locker, open diff until I really need it.

EDIT: As far as gears go, having 4.88s and a heavily loaded down truck, I would not spend the money to regear to 4.56s. To each their own, but I know with absolute certainty, that I would have been very disappointed with the performance gain for the money that it costs with 4.56s. With my extra weight, I know for a fact I'm still below the stock power ratio even with 4.88s. I can feel it on my "butt dyno", and that's more reliable info than the internet charts gave me. I pull 2600 rpms at 70 mph (and actually that's more like 75 mph since my speedo is not calibrated) so my freeway rms are still well within the acceptable range. Point is, if I would do it all over again, with extra weight and 33s, I would go 5.29s no doubt in my mind. 5 speeds are different also, 4.65s would be acceptable IMO on a heavy 5 speed with 33s.

This is what I leaning towards 5:29. My buddy down in SD has the same rig. '04 SR5 v6 ( I have an '05) Icon stage 2, 285/75/16's Goodyear Wrangler MTR's with front and rear ARB lockers and 4:56 gears and he says he can't tell the difference from the stock 3:27 which I do find hard to believe. Or he just can't really remember.

So my question is anybody since this thread began run 5:29 with my proposed config? Are you happy with the results?

To be clear, this is not a daily driver I have a '17 Honda Civic for my commute. If I get 15 to 13 mpg and billy goat climbing I won't mind shelling out the $1800 to regear, yes that's the going price at Hoopers rear ends's. I may pull the clam shell and pumpkin myself and save $700 which as I write this makes me think now more heavily about pulling them myself.