Rear Differential Pinion Bearing failing.......

[CookieRoe]

I've noticed a "hum" for the last couple of years with it getting noticeable worse (to me) lately. Last year around this time, I took it to the dealer to have the state inspection performed and for them to look into the hum. They found nothing and blamed it on the tires (they were new. DUELER H/L ALENZA PLUS so I seriously doubt it). Fast forward to today and I'm told the following: The rear differential pinion bearing is failing and thus I fail my state inspection. Repair will be about $4500. Also, the rear right wheel bearing needs to be replaced. Cost: $1000. They said the fluids were clean looking and no top-off was needed. I don't know about you, but that doesn't sound right. I asked for my emissions sticker (passed), and left. I've been commenting on some threads here about other owners complaining of a "hum". Most are wheel bearings, but there is no play on mine. I do believe the rear diff issues as it does hum when moving and changes pitch when letting off the gas. That doesn't sound like a wheel bearing to me.

Anyway, wanted to ask if anyone has gone through this. $5500 plus tax seems like highway robbery to me. I want to say the pinion bearing shouldn't be more than a few hundred dollars to me and the wheel bearing is probably bull shit. In the philly area, so if anyone can recommend a shop, that would be great! Thanks

 

[Billynath1988]

That does seem high, the parts aren't the issue its the labor from what ive seen. Im in NY on LI.. check the price of this repair at Home - The Truck Shop for comparisson.

 

[CookieRoe]

Well, after talking to another dealer, they don't think the $4500 is justified either. They say the replacement of the pinion bearing is $1300 and that $4500 is to completely replace the rear. They also believe the wheel bearing is most likely fine. I told them that the first dealer said "the wheel wasn't rotating at all". That statement alone is suspect and the first dealer, I never got to talk to the tech who inspected and diagnosed my ride. Anyway, if another dealer can repair the pinion bearing for $1300, then a reputable shop should come in much less than that. I dunno, this sucks as this is an item that normally doesn't fail. I'll update this thread as this shit show continues............

 

[y=mx+b]

if they're quoting $1300 for just the pinion bearing, another option is an ECGS assmbled 3rd member. Even just eating the $250 core charge, puts it at around $1000 to your door. You'd have to install yourself or bring to a shop, which might bring the price back up to where you are now, but just another option to think about.

edit: They're also warrantied for 5yrs for tires up to 35", which is a big plus. Local guy to me blew up his ECGS built tacoma diff doing a burnout and they replaced it no questions asked. Warranty and service is a big plus to me

 

[JLTD]

Sounds like the shop that performed the inspection is drumming up some (excessive) business at your expense. Most definitely have the work done elsewhere.

Pinion bearing is pressed in I believe, so disassembly is required and costs higher.

 

[gimlithepirate]

Another option would be to just get a whole 8.2" rear out of a 5th gen. They bolt up, could add an e-locker, and replace that bad bearing all in one go.

They are usually less than 1k$ out of a pull and pay if you pull it yourself.

 

[CookieRoe]

Thanks everyone for their suggestions and advice. I like to keep my stuff stock (mechanically speaking), so I'll look into a U-Pull it. Although if I head to an Indy shop (I found a place called F&S Auto Service in Horsham, PA) that deals with this sort of thing. I'll call and price, but I'm sure they will want me to head over for them to diagnose. Fairly certain they will (F&S) cost much less than the other Toyota dealer. Still won't be cheap. Urghhhhhhhh

Anyway, FYI, the first dealership is Conicelli Toyota service. I bought this rig 11 years ago from them and have returned only a handful of times. Because I work in Allentown (1 hour north), I've been taking my rig to Bennett Toyota for years for light repairs/state inspections. I also take my family's cars (Toyota/Lexus) there so I'm a good customer. Needless to say, I won't be coming back to C. Toyota, I'm done with them.

 

[rdruss]

Thanks everyone for their suggestions and advice. I like to keep my stuff stock (mechanically speaking), so I'll look into a U-Pull it. Although if I head to an Indy shop (I found a place called F&S Auto Service in Horsham, PA) that deals with this sort of thing. I'll call and price, but I'm sure they will want me to head over for them to diagnose. Fairly certain they will (F&S) cost much less than the other Toyota dealer. Still won't be cheap. Urghhhhhhhh

Anyway, FYI, the first dealership is Conicelli Toyota service. I bought this rig 11 years ago from them and have returned only a handful of times. Because I work in Allentown (1 hour north), I've been taking my rig to Bennett Toyota for years for light repairs/state inspections. I also take my family's cars (Toyota/Lexus) there so I'm a good customer. Needless to say, I won't be coming back to C. Toyota, I'm done with them.

When you talk with F&S ask them how much if you pull the 3rd member and bring it to them. You need to do the remove and reinstall then.

 

[Runnin on E]

Bearings

Wow another diagnosis to replace a third member. DO NOT DO THIS. the hum at the rear is most likely your rear wheel bearing(s). They WILL and have failed frequently on these rigs. Do a search on this same subject and you will see just a couple of months ago there was an exact same case of misdiagnosis, the third member was replaced and the guy still had the hum! At that time I commented and cautioned the young man to NOT buy a third from ECGS. Not because of anything to do with ECGS but that it was very likely that it was not the culprit. And sure enough the rear wheel bearings were replaced AFTER the third and the hum magically disappeared. Go figure. Also in my comments to this rather rich individual I suggested a common trouble shooting task to determine if the third was going bad (check your oil for metal particles that look like glitter when a flashlight is shined at the oil and check the magnet for metal particles too.) Even if there is what looks to be glitter in your oil it is still worth it to just change the oil and check it again in 50 miles or so. Additionally, these third members don't just casually give up the ghost. You have to be abusing the rear end by towing really heavy stuff or pounding the living crap out of it off road. OP, Could you please comment whether you tow heavy or if the simple oil check has been done? Another word of cation here, concerning the rear wheel bearings, They are hard to change and you need a special tool PLUS a 20 ton press. Not a job for the faint of heart. I welded up my own tool and already have a 20 ton press. I have done the rear bearings on my FJ (same rear end) and need to do my T4R bearings next so I have had the fun experience of changing these wheel bearings. Buy the most expensive wheel bearings you can get your hands on. Don't cheap out on this job buy the good stuff. Ok, done ranting......:ybrick:

 

[Runnin on E]

Bearings

Here is the previous recent thread:

Wheel Bearing? - (No Longer) A Rear Differential Issue

 

[Flesh Eater]

Check the rear wheel bearings.

Have you replaced u-joints?

Remove the rear drive shaft off the pinion and see if there is play.

I would personally go find a similar third member and swap thirds. Done. Easy. Simple. Do bearings when you pull the axles.

Or pony up a ton of cash and hope it fixes the issue.

 

[pauldub]

If you can find a shop that just does differential work, you'll be much happier with the outcome than if you go with a jack of all trades shop.

 

[CookieRoe]

Wow another diagnosis to replace a third member. DO NOT DO THIS. the hum at the rear is most likely your rear wheel bearing(s). They WILL and have failed frequently on these rigs. Do a search on this same subject and you will see just a couple of months ago there was an exact same case of misdiagnosis, the third member was replaced and the guy still had the hum! At that time I commented and cautioned the young man to NOT buy a third from ECGS. Not because of anything to do with ECGS but that it was very likely that it was not the culprit. And sure enough the rear wheel bearings were replaced AFTER the third and the hum magically disappeared. Go figure. Also in my comments to this rather rich individual I suggested a common trouble shooting task to determine if the third was going bad (check your oil for metal particles that look like glitter when a flashlight is shined at the oil and check the magnet for metal particles too.) Even if there is what looks to be glitter in your oil it is still worth it to just change the oil and check it again in 50 miles or so. Additionally, these third members don't just casually give up the ghost. You have to be abusing the rear end by towing really heavy stuff or pounding the living crap out of it off road. OP, Could you please comment whether you tow heavy or if the simple oil check has been done? Another word of cation here, concerning the rear wheel bearings, They are hard to change and you need a special tool PLUS a 20 ton press. Not a job for the faint of heart. I welded up my own tool and already have a 20 ton press. I have done the rear bearings on my FJ (same rear end) and need to do my T4R bearings next so I have had the fun experience of changing these wheel bearings. Buy the most expensive wheel bearings you can get your hands on. Don't cheap out on this job buy the good stuff. Ok, done ranting......:ybrick:

Not the wheel bearings. The tone of the hum changes when you lift off the gas. I do nothing anywhere close to "hard driving" nor has it ever seen off road, nor will it ever.

 

[CookieRoe]

I still haven't found the time to take my rig to the aforementioned garage. Last week, the front passenger brake line (4 in line that goes right to the caliper) failed. I had to get it repaired ASAP to a nearby garage (driving with practically no brakes is not fun............. interesting, but not fun). Inside wheel, suspension bits/tire were soaked with brake fluid. I wasn't happy to say the least. I'll report back with updates.

 

[alia176]

As mentioned previously, drain the rear diff fluid and look for metal particles. That'll help answer some things.

On my landcruiser, I DID have a loud whining sound that came from the Tcase shifter. Sounds travel up/down the driveshaft so it's hard to pinpoint from the cab the source of the noise. So, I put her up on four jack stands, against a tree then had someone put her in drive and let go of the brakes. Carefully, I used the mechanical stethescope to find the noise. It was coming from the pinion bearing area of the rear diff and it was LOUD in my ears. The Tcase made sounds, as they all do when all the gears are spinning inside but mine didn't emit a whinny sound.

Also, one of the wheel bearings was making a very slight humming sound but I doubt it was audible from the cab.

At the end, I did R/R all of the rear diff bearings and wheel bearings.

 

[gm350reratliff]

Had a rear wheel bearing fail on my 4th gen years ago and it definitely hummed but would also change tone, come and go with different throttle/coasting situations. It never fully failed but was getting loud. I initially thought it was the pinion bearing but I didn’t really see any telltale signs in the oil. I blocked the front tires, jacked up the rear differential, removed the wheels and spun the wheel hubs by hand and could totally tell which bearing was failing. I went ahead and replaced both sides myself. I think it was about $800 in parts, using mostly Toyota OEM parts. Knock on wood, haven’t had to touch them since.

 

[AuSeeker]

Had a rear wheel bearing fail on my 4th gen years ago and it definitely hummed but would also change tone, come and go with different throttle/coasting situations. It never fully failed but was getting loud. I initially thought it was the pinion bearing but I didn’t really see any telltale signs in the oil. I blocked the front tires, jacked up the rear differential, removed the wheels and spun the wheel hubs by hand and could totally tell which bearing was failing. I went ahead and replaced both sides myself. I think it was about $800 in parts, using mostly Toyota OEM parts. Knock on wood, haven’t had to touch them since.

When you say..."...could totally tell which bearing was failing...", what was it exactly that you could tell by spinning the hubs, the noise, rough feeling or up and down play of the axle or some of these symptoms or all the above?

 

[gaber6]

My pumpkin was replaced at Toyota last year for about 2300. only a 1 year warranty though, but it was grinding and clicking and I needed the car

 

[CookieRoe]

Had a rear wheel bearing fail on my 4th gen years ago and it definitely hummed but would also change tone, come and go with different throttle/coasting situations. It never fully failed but was getting loud. I initially thought it was the pinion bearing but I didn’t really see any telltale signs in the oil. I blocked the front tires, jacked up the rear differential, removed the wheels and spun the wheel hubs by hand and could totally tell which bearing was failing. I went ahead and replaced both sides myself. I think it was about $800 in parts, using mostly Toyota OEM parts. Knock on wood, haven’t had to touch them since.

Oh jeeze really? Then it very well could be one/both of my rear bearings? Urghhh.

 

[gm350reratliff]

When you say..."...could totally tell which bearing was failing...", what was it exactly that you could tell by spinning the hubs, the noise, rough feeling or up and down play of the axle or some of these symptoms or all the above?

No play or sound but I could feel the hub on the driver side wasn’t spinning smoothly with my hands. The passenger side was smooth while spinning but decided to replace that bearing anyway.

After the bearings were pressed off the axle shafts, I could clearly see the difference in the sides. The driver side clearly had a bunch of water in it, making a rust/grease concoction. The passenger side was just grease in there. The water I believe came from driving down really flooded roads about six months prior.