Rear Long Travel & Hydro Bumps

[JSparky]

Anyone running a rear long travel setup with hydraulic bump stops? I'm taking measurements right now and thought I'd check here to see if anyone's had experience with this before. Using ADS due to prior experience with the company. Thanks.


ADS Racing Air Bump Stops - Off Road Racing Suspension

 

[Jono.ful]

How did this work out? I'm on the verge of pulling the trigger on a set of hydro bumps

 

[Flahart]

The Icon kit is your best bet for a bolt in Air bump solution.

2003+ toyota 4runner rear hydraulic air bump stop 56104

FYI there is no "long travel" kits for a T4R unless you remove the factory fuel tank. The factory geometry and fuel tank to link arm placement limits what can be done with the rear suspension to get more than 11-12" of travel.

Metal tech has a "kit" but it's just longer shocks and the shocks hit the frame a full droop and the driver upper link hits the fuel tank.

 

[JSparky]

How did this work out? I'm on the verge of pulling the trigger on a set of hydro bumps

Nope, broke my leg and everything is on hold.. got a delayed union in one of my metatarsals so I'm still in a boot. If you get to it first I'd be curious to see what you do. My plan is to get my truck up on a lift in Tucson this winter and tackle it then.

 

[Jono.ful]

Nope, broke my leg and everything is on hold.. got a delayed union in one of my metatarsals so I'm still in a boot. If you get to it first I'd be curious to see what you do. My plan is to get my truck up on a lift in Tucson this winter and tackle it then.

Yeesh, sorry about your luck. The link in your original post doesn't want to work for me, and I'm not familiar with that brand. Are they similar to the icon bumps in that they mount inside the rear coils, or do they have a bracket that welds to the frame?

 

[Inv4drZm]

FYI there is no "long travel" kits for a T4R unless you remove the factory fuel tank. The factory geometry and fuel tank to link arm placement limits what can be done with the rear suspension to get more than 11-12" of travel.

Metal tech has a "kit" but it's just longer shocks and the shocks hit the frame a full droop and the driver upper link hits the fuel tank.

Icon 2.0's have 9.5" of travel, and the MT LT spec Icon shocks have 11.5" of travel. How is that not a "long travel" option? What would be actual long travel by your definition?

 

[JSparky]

Yeesh, sorry about your luck. The link in your original post doesn't want to work for me, and I'm not familiar with that brand. Are they similar to the icon bumps in that they mount inside the rear coils, or do they have a bracket that welds to the frame?

It's all good, making use of the downtime.

It looks like ADS got a new website. They're a small shop out of Tucson but their work is great, they make Slee's shocks for Land Cruisers. I have them on my
80 and fit and finish is fantastic. Their bumps are a weld-on can mount. I thought they used a top mount like King instead of a pinch can but their new website shows a pinch can so I'll have to ask about this. I'd have no reservations with King bumps either, ADS will just be local to me so it makes things easier.

I think Icon is the only in-the-spring option which is attractive if the measurements work. I'm building a shock and bumpstop setup specific to my rear coils which is why I've decided to go custom, but if I can get the Icons to work I'd consider it.

https://www.adsshocks.com/air_bump_stops_2125_inch_bump_can_style_ads_racing_shocks

 

[JSparky]

Icon 2.0's have 9.5" of travel, and the MT LT spec Icon shocks have 11.5" of travel. How is that not a "long travel" option? What would be actual long travel by your definition?

He's referring to the suspension geometry, it's arguably a nomenclature technicality. By convention a lot of companies, and as such the community as well, have referred to extended travel components as long-travel. It changes the location or extent of travel within the inherent range of travel set by the factory geometry, but does not actually improve upon the maximum articulation allowed by the geometry. That is, "true" long travel would refer to changing the number or design of suspension links.

It's been debated many times elsewhere online, if you're interested feel free to look it up. I'm not really interested in the nomenclature so I've always just deferred for travel here to mean extended travel, per what industry and forum convention dictate. I support both views I'm just not a stickler for it to avoid insignificant debate, if you know what I mean.

I really hope this doesn't blow up now ��

 

[honda250xtitan]

He's referring to the suspension geometry, it's arguably a nomenclature technicality. By convention a lot of companies, and as such the community as well, have referred to extended travel components as long-travel. It changes the location or extent of travel within the inherent range of travel set by the factory geometry, but does not actually improve upon the maximum articulation allowed by the geometry. That is, "true" long travel would refer to changing the number or design of suspension links.

It's been debated many times elsewhere online, if you're interested feel free to look it up. I'm not really interested in the nomenclature so I've always just deferred for travel here to mean extended travel, per what industry and forum convention dictate. I support both views I'm just not a stickler for it to avoid insignificant debate, if you know what I mean.

I really hope this doesn't blow up now ��

it is kinda "annoying" when guys with twin tube extended travel shocks (OME lololol) call their setup "long travel" calm down bro, thats not long travel lololol.eep:eep:

 

[wfo9]

In my book Long travel is typically about having significantly more travel than stock at the wheels.

The MT LT kit for the rear definitely meets that definition. The links don't hit the gas tank and the shocks don't hit the frame.. I'm not sure where that info came from in the post above. I've never had either one of those things happen. The drive shaft yoke does come very close to the gas tank... but I've only had it hit the skid... never the tank and the skid can be shaved to avoid this.

What does happen is it limits vertical up travel by about 3" with the bump stops (this is to protect the shock from bottom out in fully articulated scenarios). This is not good for big hits or even medium speed big hits. There are potential solutions though.. (hydro bumps...). the kit is more for trails.. and it shines there big time. Still works good in most other scenarios too, but will be problematic in higher speed terrain with big hits...The good news for most though is that there is a really simple solution.. slow down!

Ideally, the shocks could be mounted up higher into the body with towers.. but not many are willing to cut things up to accomplish that.

It comes down to trails and rocks.. need lots of droop/down travel... Speed and whoops... need up travel and down is not that important. So you configure based on your target use case. It is really hard to build one truck that does it all well.. you have to compromise on where you want it in the sweet spot. I put trail slow speed over high speed personally, but if desert high speed is your target.. probably best to go for something more in the middle.

 

[WandaRunner]

I can vouch for ADS, picked mine up at Slee 3 years ago. Had them rebuilt and valved this summer, ADS is a really great company and they have an even better product. Almost had a pair of their 2.0 bumps frenched into the frame, decided to try wheelers super bumps 1st. The wheelers are great except for the big hits, they are just a tad too soft for big hits. Still thinking about airbumps out back, I'll let you know if I pull the trigger.

 

[wfo9]

Just to clarify something in this thread. Are we talking about jounce shocks or bump stops.

In my mind. the shock/bump inside the coil is a jounce. The rubber stops on the frame are bump stops...

With the MT LT kit..You will always hit the bumps first. On my truck at ride height (no load...) I have about 3.75" between the bump and the axle. The jounce has about 5". And the shock provides about 4" of shaft exposed.

On a factory setup. You hit the jounce shock first on vertical travel.. and the bumps only hit on articulated travel.

Some ideas I had.... Was to make some new brackets and shorten the bump stops by about 1". Run a thinner bushing on the shock to let it come up ~.5" higher. I would then make the bump stops fine tune adjustable and make sure I'm not ever bottoming out the shocks. My lower links would also need to be shortened a bit to keep the wheel out of the fenders with less bump. Next step would be do hydro bumps... or an adjustable jounce...

It's low priority overall for me though. I never really do high speed unless it is easy dirt roads.. and I have no issues there. It's just when I try to go at a good clip on really rough and choppy terrain that the bump stops start being problematic and I know to slow down because that beats the truck up so bad anyway.

 

[Jono.ful]

It looks like ADS got a new website. They're a small shop out of Tucson but their work is great, they make Slee's shocks for Land Cruisers. I have them on my
80 and fit and finish is fantastic.
https://www.adsshocks.com/air_bump_stops_2125_inch_bump_can_style_ads_racing_shocks

Hmm I'll have to check them out, thanks for the link. I'm leaning towards Radflo at this point just to keep everything the same. Still have to get under and measure everything up, just getting sick of the hard hits on the trail when loaded up

 

[wfo9]

Hmm I'll have to check them out, thanks for the link. I'm leaning towards Radflo at this point just to keep everything the same. Still have to get under and measure everything up, just getting sick of the hard hits on the trail when loaded up

So based on my post above. Which are you considering and how do you plan to mount.

For loaded up.. Have you considered airbags. I've thought about trying them before for a few reasons... Having the ability to control in the cab would be pretty sweet on occasion. I've had so many times when my rear lower link skids stop me from making a ledge and I only need about 1" of additional lift in the rear to make it... I just don't know how they would do fully deflated...

 

[Jono.ful]

So based on my post above. Which are you considering and how do you plan to mount.

For loaded up.. Have you considered airbags. I've thought about trying them before for a few reasons... Having the ability to control in the cab would be pretty sweet on occasion. I've had so many times when my rear lower link skids stop me from making a ledge and I only need about 1" of additional lift in the rear to make it... I just don't know how they would do fully deflated...

Currently running the heavy progressive rate LT rear springs from Metaltech and 2.5" remote resi LT Radflos, with Metaltech adjustable 4 link and adjustable panhard bar. This set up generally works great, but I have run in to situations where I've had some hard bottom outs with my rtt on and the back full of gear. I'm not at all inclined to do air ride, and at this point I haven't considered many options for mounting a set of hydro bumps, but my initial thoughts are to mount them inside the frame rails near the factory bump stops such that at 95-ish% maximum compress of the hydro bumps, the axle housing will contact the rubber factory bumps (which are presently on 3" drop brackets. In this case, I'd either do a pinch mount or pin mount can depending on clearance issues

 

[wfo9]

Currently running the heavy progressive rate LT rear springs from Metaltech and 2.5" remote resi LT Radflos, with Metaltech adjustable 4 link and adjustable panhard bar. This set up generally works great, but I have run in to situations where I've had some hard bottom outs with my rtt on and the back full of gear. I'm not at all inclined to do air ride, and at this point I haven't considered many options for mounting a set of hydro bumps, but my initial thoughts are to mount them inside the frame rails near the factory bump stops such that at 95-ish% maximum compress of the hydro bumps, the axle housing will contact the rubber factory bumps (which are presently on 3" drop brackets. In this case, I'd either do a pinch mount or pin mount can depending on clearance issues

I don't think you will have any chance of mounting them inside the frame rails. There is no room that I could see. Doing them as a jounce inside the coil would probably achieve what you want, but I'm not sure.

I think you are just going to need to replace the factory bumps with a custom mount and then do a flat pad on the axle. That would work well but getting them to not limit articulated travel but still provide a good progressive bump might be a tad tricky. Key would be very soft low speed damping and very aggressive low/high speed. I just don't know much about what type of valving is available... but something I plan to research and figure out eventually since I'm putting LT on the front and feel I will run into more need to control the rear.

The load clearly makes a big difference. I've had to move all my heavy gear forward and it really made a huge difference, but I don't have a heavy bumper or swing out, or RTT either.

 

[LawnDart]

I'm really not sure hydro bumps are worth it unless your goal is to go really fast, and even then you're opening up a big can of worms with the 4Runner.

I'm running the timbren sas bump stop with a 2" extension for my long travel and the ONE thing I'll say that worked really really well in Baja was that we never bottomed out the rear bumper. And the ass end of my vehicle is just ridiculously heavy.

I think welding on perches for the bump stops is critical because otherwise most bump stops tend to want to curve or roll when contacting the top of the axle. Something we did on my setup. I looked at frenching in king hydros but even king was pretty adamant that I wouldn't like the results, mainly because it's more of a high speed application, and the clicking from the delrin gets incredibly annoying because you don't have the seperation like you do with a truck/bed.

I think making sure the back is sprung right for the right amount of weight is a more critical solution. YMMV, though.

 

[Flahart]

Icon 2.0's have 9.5" of travel, and the MT LT spec Icon shocks have 11.5" of travel. How is that not a "long travel" option? What would be actual long travel by your definition?

Anything that just bolts into a T4R or any SUV is no way a LT suspension. If you decided to run shocks into the cab, ditched the factory fuel tank, and ran some beefy lower links to run the shocks off of then your getting closer to LT. Southern style (I think) did it with a GX470. Rear seats were gone and didn't really handle all that well with it being a 6K SUV and they ran Radflo's which are the bottom of the barrel for shocks on the market.

 

[JSparky]

So, for what it's worth, when I went about building the rear end up the MetalTech LT coils never made my list because I knew I was going to be overloading them and didn't want a rear ride-height at or below 2". I started with AllPro 3.5'' coils which were soft but sagged too much under load, which I kind of figured would happen. Then Dobinson's came on the scene with their progressive coils and I picked up their heaviest set at the time. The only trip I took with those was Death Valley and carried around 750 pounds of gear, armor included. It was still bottoming out so they made me an even heavier set which I believe has been added to the catalog. Unloaded it's probably around 4" of rear lift. I haven't fully loaded it due to my accident, but partially loaded it came down to maybe 3-3.5"?

I know hard numbers are needed which I can get later next month hopefully. Either way my point is that it could be a good option for a heavier load capacity coil with extended down travel. Granted the overall rear lift tis going to be taller. These coils are also why I'm waiting on shocks because I need to get under there and cycle through everything to get the travel where I want it. This is not a plug for Dobinsons, just my experience in trying to get the rear suspension where I want it.

Halfway down the second page show's the ride height of these coils. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/236107-wampa-jr-build-2.html

 

[wfo9]

Anything that just bolts into a T4R or any SUV is no way a LT suspension. If you decided to run shocks into the cab, ditched the factory fuel tank, and ran some beefy lower links to run the shocks off of then your getting closer to LT. Southern style (I think) did it with a GX470. Rear seats were gone and didn't really handle all that well with it being a 6K SUV and they ran Radflo's which are the bottom of the barrel for shocks on the market.

OK, you are getting too technical for the avg owner. When you gain about 8" of wheel travel... I call that long travel and not just a lift. But it's trail long travel.. not speed oriented long travel. What SS did with the radius arms is cool and all, but not something many of us would think about ... not to mention it would hang up often on the arms themselves in tech terrain. Everything is a compromise in some way.... The long travel springs, shocks, brake lines, arms that MT offers work really well for trail use when lightly loaded. I can see where heavy loads would be a problem and I can also see where speed + load could be a problem. For just trails with a day or two worth of gear... it claws up everything... and bump the RTI score way up.

Better controlled bump stops or even air bags could solve many of those problem with the harshness. Notice I said "could". I'm just not sure until I try it.

Technically it may not be long travel buy some peoples definition.. but sure does provide more travel and trail capability.