Rear Recovery Point Interest

[BlackWorksInc]

We actually noticed that our pulling on concrete test flattened out our previous design. It was bend at more of an angle like the factory tie down to begin with, but my pictures show it to be pretty flat now. That, and we needed to round the corners and keep it narrow for the towing hitch like you guys mentioned.

We might change it to something like this. The only challenge is rounding the hole's corners for the soft shackle. Radius endmills are $80 each and we would have to interpolate them on the mill, and 1.25" diameter chamfer bits are similarly priced. Difficult to get an air belt sander in there so we might need to get a quote from a machine shop to laser this out of 1" steel and radius the edge for us. With this design though, we don't have to mess with bending 1/2" plates and a soft shackle can be used to pull straight back or from the side, and a conventional shackle can still be used straight back. It can't be bent coming down off a rock ledge or pulling straight back like our previous one did.

I like this design and I think it'd work pretty well (particularly if you made it out of maybe .750 steel, it'd be stout as hell), though the radius on that hole would be a pain as you mentioned. Something to consider though is that all three of your designs won't be "soft-shackle" friendly unless you clean the edges up.

Realistically you wouldn't need to make a very aggressive radius or chamfer though. All you need is maybe 1~2mm of chamber along the edges of the hole and the outside edges of the bracket (at least anywhere a soft shackle would contact) to be effective there. The subtler chamfer would be easier to produce and less stressful on the tool bit (i.e. you'd only be using say a chamfer bit to "touch up" the edge of the hole vs. trying to cut a deep ramp or radius like your image shows) as well as be very minimally abrasive to a soft shackle.

This design is nice, but as you mentioned eventually it'd bend a bit under stress even if made from 1/2" steel. Realistically if you could indent the bend slightly that would reinforce the bracket significantly, but finding a place that could stamp that type of feature into your brackets would be ridiculously expensive. A small single gusset between one of the bolts would probably be enough to mitigate the stresses.

This is also a very nice design, though honestly it might be a bit overkill from a production standpoint. While I am all for overkill (loving all the designs and the sheer beefiness to them), the weakest point here is going to be the bolts specifically. So it might not need to be that gusseted, as that does end up eating into your overhead and production budget. I do the same thing sometimes, I'll over build/design something and realize that while it'd probably survive a nuclear detonation, from a cost vs. realistic use standpoint... I probably just made my idea 10 times more expensive than it needed to be.

~

Keep up the great work!

 

[Inv4drZm]

[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION], thanks for the detailed response! My brother is pretty set on the 90 degree design, for some reason I am hesitant. We pulled hard on it a handful of times perpendicularly to the body which basically jerked my truck 90 degrees even after locking up my brakes. We did this for the left and right sides of the truck, trying to bend it flat and also trying to give it more of a bend. It didn't move, so I'm thinking the weak points might be the weld nuts on the inside of the frame, assuming that's what they would be using, because if the part doesn't bend flat, it would have a bit of leverage pulling the bolts out and bending them which would stress the weld nuts.

We need to make a video of us pulling on it, but we've only had time to test them after it gets dark. I'm sure people would rarely pull that hard perpendicular to their vehicle but making it bombproof is always nice when you can.

Here is the very first one we made, the new design with the 3 holes would be compatible with the OE towing accessory by being rotated the other way, stick down a bit further, and be an inch longer across the frame. And yes, we aren't planning anything crazy for the chamfers, just enough to not cut into the rope.

 

[SAR_Runner]

[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION], thanks for the detailed response! My brother is pretty set on the 90 degree design, for some reason I am hesitant. We pulled hard on it a handful of times perpendicularly to the body which basically jerked my truck 90 degrees even after locking up my brakes. We did this for the left and right sides of the truck, trying to bend it flat and also trying to give it more of a bend. It didn't move, so I'm thinking the weak points might be the weld nuts on the inside of the frame, assuming that's what they would be using, because if the part doesn't bend flat, it would have a bit of leverage pulling the bolts out and bending them which would stress the weld nuts.

We need to make a video of us pulling on it, but we've only had time to test them after it gets dark. I'm sure people would rarely pull that hard perpendicular to their vehicle but making it bombproof is always nice when you can.

Here is the very first one we made, the new design with the 3 holes would be compatible with the OE towing accessory by being rotated the other way, stick down a bit further, and be an inch longer across the frame. And yes, we aren't planning anything crazy for the chamfers, just enough to not cut into the rope.

I like it! my biggest thing is to make sure taht you can fit a reasonable size shackle through the hole, both just the pin and the ears. sometimes I find myself needing to use both, als if anyone has a thimble from Factor55 you cant use the pin side, just the round side.

I think that if you leave the edges the way they are and you ship it bare metal, it would allow the end user to make the needed adjustments if they are going to run a soft shackle. I know that I will be...

Do you have an idea of what you will be charging? curious on range of price, not exact dollar.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION], thanks for the detailed response! My brother is pretty set on the 90 degree design, for some reason I am hesitant. We pulled hard on it a handful of times perpendicularly to the body which basically jerked my truck 90 degrees even after locking up my brakes. We did this for the left and right sides of the truck, trying to bend it flat and also trying to give it more of a bend. It didn't move, so I'm thinking the weak points might be the weld nuts on the inside of the frame, assuming that's what they would be using, because if the part doesn't bend flat, it would have a bit of leverage pulling the bolts out and bending them which would stress the weld nuts.

We need to make a video of us pulling on it, but we've only had time to test them after it gets dark. I'm sure people would rarely pull that hard perpendicular to their vehicle but making it bombproof is always nice when you can.

Here is the very first one we made, the new design with the 3 holes would be compatible with the OE towing accessory by being rotated the other way, stick down a bit further, and be an inch longer across the frame. And yes, we aren't planning anything crazy for the chamfers, just enough to not cut into the rope.

I wouldn't be as worried about the nuts in the frame because once the bolt is tightened the object becomes "one" so to speak. The real stress/failure point will be in the shearing forces in the bolts and/or stretching, which is why I would probably use nothing short of Grade 10 hardware.

Glad the 90 degree design is holding up, it's nice and simple so that's always a plus.

 

[Inv4drZm]

Do you have an idea of what you will be charging? curious on range of price, not exact dollar.

Hopefully under $70 for a pair would be doable, shipped that is. We have already asked for a quote on the 90 degree part, so we will see what that is when they get back to us, and go from there. Not sure about pricing for singles yet, haven't thought that far. Maybe we will just sell them all as singles because they are all the same part; it's still up in the air at this point...

 

[kevinpt]

will be in for a pair

 

[kevinpt]

[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION], thanks for the detailed response! My brother is pretty set on the 90 degree design, for some reason I am hesitant. We pulled hard on it a handful of times perpendicularly to the body which basically jerked my truck 90 degrees even after locking up my brakes. We did this for the left and right sides of the truck, trying to bend it flat and also trying to give it more of a bend. It didn't move, so I'm thinking the weak points might be the weld nuts on the inside of the frame, assuming that's what they would be using, because if the part doesn't bend flat, it would have a bit of leverage pulling the bolts out and bending them which would stress the weld nuts.

We need to make a video of us pulling on it, but we've only had time to test them after it gets dark. I'm sure people would rarely pull that hard perpendicular to their vehicle but making it bombproof is always nice when you can.

Here is the very first one we made, the new design with the 3 holes would be compatible with the OE towing accessory by being rotated the other way, stick down a bit further, and be an inch longer across the frame. And yes, we aren't planning anything crazy for the chamfers, just enough to not cut into the rope.

if you add a weld to the inside would it make it better?

 

[Inv4drZm]

if you add a weld to the inside would it make it better?

I need to do a bit more research but the parts of the metallurgy class that I remember makes me think the cold worked steel's grain structure is pretty strong against bending, and if I were to heat it up red hot with a big fat weld, the grain structure would even itself out, called austenization, and it would make the structure as if I machined it from a single block of metal instead of being cold worked with the bend.

 

[Inv4drZm]

I think we are getting closer. How does this look?











A shackle is awkward to use at this angle, but to keep the strength of the smaller slot, a soft shackle will just have to be used when pulling sideways. Unless we make it an upside down "T" slot where a little cutout in the middle would give it enough clearance to fit sideways. Might have to try that next.




Dang, I got a bunch of rust under my truck now! It's starting! :rip:

 

[NinjaOne]

I'm curious, what is the advantage of this vs. using the hitch with the shackle adapter. Just additional recovery point?

Looks high enough.... but departure angle impacted?

 

[AuSeeker]

When you bevel the hole so it won't cut a soft shackle the metal shackle will turn some more, will it make it to 90* (?) depends on how much you bevel the hole.

 

[Inv4drZm]

I'm curious, what is the advantage of this vs. using the hitch with the shackle adapter. Just additional recovery point?

Looks high enough.... but departure angle impacted?

Just additional recovery points on the corners you can use. Some people remove the hitch to gain clearance for wheeling purposes or reduce weight. A receiver hitch shackle adapter will stick out backwards and I've seen my brother's get grinded against rocks in Moab. (Guess he could of removed it until he needed it) Ours are tucked up nicely. I will admit the receiver hitch shackle adapters will be strong and easy to use especially with a soft shackle.

Departure angle isn't effected on my 4R or the FJ.

 

[Runn4est]

Just additional recovery points on the corners you can use. Some people remove the hitch to gain clearance for wheeling purposes or reduce weight. A receiver hitch shackle adapter will stick out backwards and I've seen my brother's get grinded against rocks in Moab. (Guess he could of removed it until he needed it) Ours are tucked up nicely. I will admit the receiver hitch shackle adapters will be strong and easy to use especially with a soft shackle.

Departure angle isn't effected on my 4R or the FJ.

I think maybe using both corner points and bridle for your recovery strap is beneficial too. Helps equalize the load on your frame and the recovery points.

 

[Inv4drZm]

This is the design we will be going with:




Looks like our pricing will be $55 for a pair, shipped, with grade 10.9 bolts.

For those with the factory rear exhaust pipe in the way of the passenger side, $30 shipped for one recovery point with 10.9 bolts.

The corners will be knocked down to be soft shackle friendly.

There is a 3-4wk lead time from the machine shop.

I will start a thread in the Group Buy section and put a notification in this thread when we are all set to get an official list going.

 

[AuSeeker]

Will these fit the front recovery points?

 

[Inv4drZm]

Will these fit the front recovery points?

As far as I know, there are no threaded holes in the front of the 4th gen for mounting it.

The 3rd gens have this directly under the radiator crossmember, but I don't think ours have these.

 

[AuSeeker]

I have 2 recovery points under the front of my 2004 Limited, not sure how they're mounted, I will have to look at them and get back to you.

EDIT: Just went out with the flashlight, they aren't bolted on, just 2 U shaped 1/2" round stock welded to each side of the cross member.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I have 2 recovery points under the front of my 2004 Limited, not sure how they're mounted, I will have to look at them and get back to you.

EDIT: Just went out with the flashlight, they aren't bolted on, just 2 U shaped 1/2" round stock welded to each side of the cross member.

Those aren't really recovery points, they're tie-down points for shipping/flatbed use for the most part. Some people have had good results recovering with them, but then others have not...

 

[AuSeeker]

Those aren't really recovery points, they're tie-down points for shipping/flatbed use for the most part. Some people have had good results recovering with them, but then others have not...

Yes they don't look all that strong, or at least the cross member they're welded too doesn't.

 

[Macallan]

Will these come powdercoated?

This is the design we will be going with:




Looks like our pricing will be $55 for a pair, shipped, with grade 10.9 bolts.

For those with the factory rear exhaust pipe in the way of the passenger side, $30 shipped for one recovery point with 10.9 bolts.

The corners will be knocked down to be soft shackle friendly.

There is a 3-4wk lead time from the machine shop.

I will start a thread in the Group Buy section and put a notification in this thread when we are all set to get an official list going.