Replacing rear end,easy and should I add Truetrac?

YearZero

New member
I have a TWO WHEEL drive 07 4 Runner SR5 with 120k miles. Rear end has been bad for the last 30k miles or so.. Constant whine that matches speed, had it checked by the local dealer and 2 independent shops to confirm its the differential. Even tho I try to do all my own work DIY, finances and other life things got in the way and kept me from fixing it. Come tax time, first thing on my list is to fix it.

My original thread:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/172111-help-me-diagnose-whine.html

At first I was going to try and find a whole rear end from a junkyard but haven't had much luck around here. Doing some more research and seeing what ECGS offers, replacing for a new prebuilt third member seems a lot easier than I thought it was.

Pull drive shaft, pull both axels out about a foot, take out a bunch of bolts around the "pumpkin", remove and replace diff as one unit?? Put it all back together? Is it that easy?? Ive never done work on rear ends before. Ive swapped motors, brakes, clutches and just got done re-powring my Sea Ray with new 4.3 v6 (more on that later ;) )

Should I worry about cleaning out the housing of all the old oil and any metal particles that might be in there? Whats the best way to do this while the housing is still on the truck?

My next question is upgrading to something better than the stock open diff.

The truck is bone stock except for AT/revos and stereo. I plan to keep it that way, no bigger wheels, no lift kits, "maybe" might do a simple exhaust down the road and some cosmetic things. Driven 99% on the street however I DO pull a 19ft bow rider that we keep in the back yard and this were I run into problems. When backing up over my front lawn to park the boat on the side of the house, I have to come up over the curb onto the grass and usually wind up spinning a tire and wrecking my grass. I park the boat/trailer in-between my house and the next door fence. I have to often get a rolling start so when the front tires come up off the street I have some momentum to keep pushing the boat/trailer back but this often means I can't get the trailer exactly where I want it between my house and that fence. Its pretty much threading a needle with a 3600 lb trailer and spinning tires makes it a pain. So much that my wife is actually saying "we need a 4wd"

I was looking at the Detroit Trueurac as that seems to be the best option. Cost, no maintenance, best option for street driving ect... I don't ever plan on doing any serious off roading but it would be nice to know that if I did find myself on a dirt road, light trial or perhaps a slippery boat ramp I would have better luck than a complete open diff.

Sorry for the long post but I just want to hear what some of you guys think. Am I on the right track here?

Get a prebuilt 3rd member from ECGS (same gearing) drop out my bad diff and bolt in a new one. Simple DIY job in my own garage that should take what? a good Saturday afternoon??

While Im at it spend a little extra and upgrade to a LSD so when pulling/ backing my boat across the grass Ill have less if no problems loosing traction and more piece of mind at the boat ramps.??

Thanks in advance.
 
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It's not a difficult job. Just wipe out the inside of the housing with paper towel. Have axle O rings on hand in case either of yours tear during removal. Use RTV instead of the Toyota gasket. The Truetrac is a good option for your use.
 
pull both axels out about a foot,

Nope. Pull them all the way out. If you pull them partway out and leave them sit there while you drop the third they'll rest on your axle seal and wreck it.

A TrueTrac will help with your boat parking difficulties, for sure. A set of Maxtrax or similar traction ramps will cost less and help more though. A 4wd would help even more and make you manly as a bonus, but I know you Florida guys don't like being manly so I won't suggest it.
 
I think my 06 limited's rear is giving up too...

I am going to milk it for now... It has always whined for awhile and hasn't got much louder but same stats bought the pig at 83k and now have 115k and the noise hasn't got much worse but its not going away... I changed the fluid my self and put in the OEM add. and castrol brand gear lube around 90k
Its bad enough to where you can hear on and off throttle at highway speeds.(you have to single the noise out but its there for sure)
Once it's bad enough to hear under throttle at highway speeds I think I'm going to throw a pumpkin assem in for sure! Since you have the axles out make sure to replace the axle bearings too. If the rear end is making noise it's sure to be leaving some metal filings behind for the magnet to miss sometimes... (if the axle bearings start going metal in the new LSD)
Also make sure to clean the housing out best as possible... take a long broom type handle with rags on the end of it and q-tip the bad boy and hand wipe all you can.... Sucks to hear the rear P-brake is a PITA....
I also have the drive shaft clunk every now and again... Would love to upgrade to the "lexus" shaft but Ive heard its like 450... I'm sure a 3rd member pumpkin with a LSD upgrade is some scratch too....
I have to assume this rear end noise only effects more first run 4th gen runners...
As far as transmission fluid I am just changing out a couple of quarts at a time here and there....
Same with the coolant I just drained and filled her and the v6 sys took about 1 gallon of the pink 50/50 oem mix stuff... I'll drain and fill it in another year or so...

I have always heard if you have some miles on youre rig and just change all the transmission fluid at one time you can shorten the life sometimes esp. if the fluid is burnt or in really bad shape... Since I doubt my rid had trans fluid changed like I said I have been slowly just inducing a couple quarts here and there...
Basically I and just draining it and putting in the same amount that I drains out....
 
Just replaced mine a couple weeks ago with a unit from ECGS. Love it, beefy, and it is so easy to do it's ridiculous. Literally took me under 2 hours, and I've never done one before either.
Truetrac would be great! Don't have any worries there.
As was stated, make sure you support the axles when you pull them out. I unbolted the 3rd member, pulled the axles out enough, then pulled the 3rd. Pulled that out from under the truck then shoved the axles back into place so I didn't have to support them. Haven't had any issues. Parking brake is a PITA, so don't bother trying to take them all the way out unless you need to replace a seal.
Have fun man!
 
A 4wd would help even more and make you manly as a bonus, but I know you Florida guys don't like being manly so I won't suggest it.

Right, nothing makes me feel like less of a man when one wheel is spinning on the lawn when I have a car load of women in bikinis waiting to go out on the water.....Next truck will be a 4x4 for sure.

So sounds like true trac is my best bet. I thought about replacing the wheel bearings as well (metal shavings?) but whats that take? I assume they are pressed in to the axel? Or is that something I can take to a shop and have them do it??
 
Right, nothing makes me feel like less of a man when one wheel is spinning on the lawn when I have a car load of women in bikinis waiting to go out on the water.....Next truck will be a 4x4 for sure.

So sounds like true trac is my best bet. I thought about replacing the wheel bearings as well (metal shavings?) but whats that take? I assume they are pressed in to the axel? Or is that something I can take to a shop and have them do it??

The wheel bearings are sealed and unless they are loose or making noise, I would leave them.
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I had the pinion bearing go out on my diff. The warning signs were there when I bought it, but it was quiet enough and such an odd mechanical noise I thought it was excessive tire tread noise. As time went on it got louder and louder.

I got a used diff here, and ended up replacing all the bearings myself and setting up a solid shim spacer for the pinion bearing. It took more time than I thought it would, mainly on setting the pinion preload, and you need a press to do this stuff. So definitely go with a pre-built diff if you're getting into it.

That said, there's still a very slight bit of diff whine under power, but it's pretty subdued, and usually overpowered by the light amount of tire tread noise from my Grandma-aggressive Cooper grocery-getters (4Runner just tows and does DD duty, no wheeling for me). Off throttle it's quiet, on throttle it's a very subtle diff whine (or I'd almost call it a constant tone of the teeth meshing on the power side). The diff is setup within specs, if a bit on the looser side on backlash with some heavier fluid. Seems to be the preferable way to go with towing from what I read (allows more fluid on the teeth).

Some of the OEM 4Runners I test drove when looking for mine had about the same amount of slight whine. So if road noise is drowning it out, it might be 100% normal for these diffs. Keep in mind that your springs and under a lot of load and mounted to where they can pick up the diff noise and put it right into the frame with minimal bushing absorption of noise.

So anything I'd describe as loud is not normal, but if it's just a very light whine/tone under power, I'd say that's pretty normal for a solid axle SUV where the diff is hanging out right under an exposed rear storage area. Keep in mind a 4Runner has less sound deadening than something like a GX470. A little more sound here and there kinda comes with the territory.
 
Jeremy, thanks for that pic, that clears it up. I don't think the wheel bearings are bad since the whine is constant and does not change when loading either left or right side. If I can avoid changing them I will. I suppose when I tear it all apart Ill look at the fluid and magnet and see what I find.

RPS13, I hear what your saying about the possibility of the noise being normal but Ive had this truck since 42k miles and it was not like this when I bought it. I remember driving it home from CarMax and thinking how quiet it was for an SUV. (traded in a BMW 335i) In fact, it was not till I had a local shop change the diff fluid that the problem slowly started to develop. At first, perhaps 5000 miles after that shop did the work (which was just an oil/diff fluid change, front brakes and tire rotation) Thats about when I started to notice the noise. I thought it was just tire noise till it started getting really bad and I looked into it further. The noise definatly changes when under power/off power and is so bad now that it drowns out what I would consider normal road/tire noise.
 
Gotcha.

Your pinion bearing could have gone out, which as I stated, is pretty tough to replace for the DIY (I've rebuilt multiple diffs, and this was the most time consuming). It's pretty common on these diffs with the crush spacer.

It is definitely easy to change it with a rebuilt one. I found it was easiest to undo the rear brake calipers from the axle and suspend them. Then it's just unplugging the ABS sensor and the 4 hub bolts, then each side comes out. 3-4 hrs should be pretty easy your first time around.

I wouldn't worry about metal shavings. Just flush it with a bit of extra fluid with the drain open to push stuff out. You can also do a quick 500 mile or so oil change with conventional fluid to clean it out as well. But the drain plug also has a magnetic on it I'm pretty sure (I believe? but the last 2 diffs I did were Nissan R200s). So it should be capturing any metal particles.
 
I wouldn't worry about metal shavings. Just flush it with a bit of extra fluid with the drain open to push stuff out. You can also do a quick 500 mile or so oil change with conventional fluid to clean it out as well. But the drain plug also has a magnetic on it I'm pretty sure (I believe? but the last 2 diffs I did were Nissan R200s). So it should be capturing any metal particles.

Flushing it out after 500 miles sounds like a good idea. Ill also be sure to clean it out as best I can with clean shop towels to get every last bit of gunk out possible.

The drain plug does have a magnet on it. In fact, when I first started to look into this whole thing after the noise got worse, I drained and changed the fluid with Royal Purple. I remember cleaning the magnet off and seeing a tiny bit of metal.

Thanks to everyone for the advice. Now I just need to wait on my W2's and tax refund :dance:
 

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