replacing Xreas...

hey, thanks all the feedback. i appreciate it all, good and bad!

i don't mind spending extras $$$ on a better system. I've only seen threads on the 5100 and fj cruiser spring combo...that's why i started this thread!
so what about people with other systems compared to xreas?
 
Ok, I understand where you're coming from but unfortunately, I don't drive like a grandma and I don't "only" drive on smooth surfaces. Ditching XREAS was the best thing i could have done. Period. Now for $1300, you have gotten into the aftermarket Coil-over territory where i'm sorry to say, will give you the on-road handling you're looking for plus provide increased height and handle the extra weight/towing you say you do on a regular basis better than XREAS. And they are rebuildable for much less. Were you able to test out other suspension systems prior to removing the 5100's and going back to XREAS?
No, I did not test anything other than 5100's vs. XREAS. Perhaps I should have and perhaps I'd be even happier with something else. I'm sure there are other solutions that may get rid of the nose dives, body roll, etc., but for me I'm at least satisfied going back to XREAS vs. the Bilsteins (again, I'm on STOCK coils did not add the FJ springs, so maybe that changes things substantially and why others rave so much about the Bilstein setup). XREAS certainly adds complications with all the extra parts, which is probably the only downside I see. If I were doing any serious off-roading it would have to go ... I can just picture a rock hitting one of those lines and you've blown half the system.

Going back to the Eastcoastrunner's original post, I believe he said it's only the driver's center control unit that is leaking, which would mean IF you wanted to retain XREAS, you're probably looking at replacing Front Right Absorber + Line + Left Center Unit + Left Rear Absorber = which comes out to ~$600 + tax/shipping if you shop the parts around. I was fortunate enough to get my local dealer to honor/match the internet pricing I was getting and only had to pay tax. Yes, I spent some $1300 on mine, but again that was replacing the entire system. Doesn't sound like Eastcoastrunner needs to.

I'm only speaking from my experience of XREAS vs. Bilstein 5100 setup with stock coils. For me, sorry, XREAS wins hands down. They're still monotubes so yes, they're going to be a bit firmer than non-XREAS stockers, but the Bilsteins are much firmer and for the driving I do they were miserable. I guess as many have rightfully mentioned: ride quality certainly is subjective.

i don't mind spending extras $$$ on a better system. I've only seen threads on the 5100 and fj cruiser spring combo...that's why i started this thread!
so what about people with other systems compared to xreas?

Now, any other aftermarket setup I can't comment on, but surely if cost isn't an issue I guess you could get whatever you want. To each his own, be happy with whatever you choose. My $.02 is only on XREAS vs. Bilstein. If I were you I'd just fix the XREAS @ ~$600 in parts. (that's doing your own labor though). But then again to be fair, I guess you could be another $600 deep later when the right-side goes out :wow2:

One side note, I don't think I'd trust anybody other than the dealer or someone who is familiar with the system to work on it ... or at least somebody who is clear in understanding that they must follow the FSM and not be unhooking stuff on the new parts as they're all pre-filled, pressurized, and the front and back must be done at the same time with the truck in the air.
 
No, I did not test anything other than 5100's vs. XREAS. Perhaps I should have and perhaps I'd be even happier with something else. I'm sure there are other solutions that may get rid of the nose dives, body roll, etc., but for me I'm at least satisfied going back to XREAS vs. the Bilsteins (again, I'm on STOCK coils did not add the FJ springs, so maybe that changes things substantially and why others rave so much about the Bilstein setup). XREAS certainly adds complications with all the extra parts, which is probably the only downside I see. If I were doing any serious off-roading it would have to go ... I can just picture a rock hitting one of those lines and you've blown half the system.

That would be a good comparison. Hopefully someone who has gone from 5100 w/ stock xreas springs to 5100 w/ fj springs can chime in. Although my understanding is that the FJ springs are a bit stiffer so if you added the FJ springs it probably would have worsen the ride for you.

Going back to the Eastcoastrunner's original post, I believe he said it's only the driver's center control unit that is leaking, which would mean IF you wanted to retain XREAS, you're probably looking at replacing Front Right Absorber + Line + Left Center Unit + Left Rear Absorber = which comes out to ~$600 + tax/shipping if you shop the parts around. I was fortunate enough to get my local dealer to honor/match the internet pricing I was getting and only had to pay tax. Yes, I spent some $1300 on mine, but again that was replacing the entire system. Doesn't sound like Eastcoastrunner needs to.

Yes, getting back to the original topic. Good point. If one system is leaking, you only have to replace that one, not both. I do wonder if the reason dealerships recommend replacing both systems are:

1) make more money
2) that is what the Toyota manual recommends
3) by only replacing one system, the pairing of a new system and a higher mileage system might adversely affect the overall ride feel

Eastcoastrunner, how many miles do you currently have on XREAS? XREAS, as with all suspension systems, do have a shelf life. So if your mileage is up there you might consider going with the full system replace as gman72 suggests as the feel may have changed over time.

I'm only speaking from my experience of XREAS vs. Bilstein 5100 setup with stock coils. For me, sorry, XREAS wins hands down. They're still monotubes so yes, they're going to be a bit firmer than non-XREAS stockers, but the Bilsteins are much firmer and for the driving I do they were miserable. I guess as many have rightfully mentioned: ride quality certainly is subjective.

Now, any other aftermarket setup I can't comment on, but surely if cost isn't an issue I guess you could get whatever you want. To each his own, be happy with whatever you choose. My $.02 is only on XREAS vs. Bilstein. If I were you I'd just fix the XREAS @ ~$600 in parts. (that's doing your own labor though). But then again to be fair, I guess you could be another $600 deep later when the right-side goes out :wow2:

One side note, I don't think I'd trust anybody other than the dealer or someone who is familiar with the system to work on it ... or at least somebody who is clear in understanding that they must follow the FSM and not be unhooking stuff on the new parts as they're all pre-filled, pressurized, and the front and back must be done at the same time with the truck in the air.

I 100% agree. Do not trust anyone who does not have a complete knowledge of XREAS. That is why when some members look to modify or remove XREAS, non-toyota shops will usually turn them away or charge insane amounts of labor to deal with it.
 
went to dealer today...unreal.
they wouldn't pass it for inspection because of my cracked exhaust manifold...cost to repair? $2000 with taxes
next, the accumulator and line on one side is leaking, cost to repair? $1400 for the one side!
also said the front left axle had 'no grease' in it, and water came out?
$1000 taxes in to replace...
WTF IS WRONG WITH TOYOTA. $4500 to fix this ****? i miss my old 1990 honda. i don't care what anyone says, an 8 yr old toyota shouldnt require these repairs...and if it does, the parts shouldn't be luxury car prices for parts...are you kidding me?
i'm pondering selling it now, first and last toyota i will ever own if i do.
 
I still refuse to think it can't be done by oneself.

As far as I understand, it is a a purely mechanical, non electrical system. It has 2 sides and on each side you have 2 reservoirs, 1 at each tire, a plumbing line and a pump/controller in the middle.


If you can bleed a brake line, you can bleed this. I have to believe that you can rummage up the parts at a pick and pull to fix this easily.

http://www.ncttora.com/fsm/2003/4runner/215/ncf/suspension_x-reas.pdf

Looking at this, the system has built in check ports for servicing and fluid filling. I honestly think it would be a job a person can do.


Also. The notion it is "closed" and when one shock fails, the other must as well is not totally correct. From looking at the schematic, there are numerous "breaks" in the system. If one shock fails, it can be replaced and then the system bled, much like with brakes. I see no reason to think you can't simply replace 1, if only 1 is bad. Obviously, if both are leaking then both would need to be replaced.
 
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I still refuse to think it can't be done by oneself.

As far as I understand, it is a a purely mechanical, non electrical system. It has 2 sides and on each side you have 2 reservoirs, 1 at each tire, a plumbing line and a pump/controller in the middle.


If you can bleed a brake line, you can bleed this. I have to believe that you can rummage up the parts at a pick and pull to fix this easily.

http://www.ncttora.com/fsm/2003/4runner/215/ncf/suspension_x-reas.pdf

Looking at this, the system has built in check ports for servicing and fluid filling. I honestly think it would be a job a person can do.


Also. The notion it is "closed" and when one shock fails, the other must as well is not totally correct. From looking at the schematic, there are numerous "breaks" in the system. If one shock fails, it can be replaced and then the system bled, much like with brakes. I see no reason to think you can't simply replace 1, if only 1 is bad. Obviously, if both are leaking then both would need to be replaced.

Having firsthand experience with removing the XREAS system from my '03, I can say that anyone with basic mechanical skills can certainly work on, or replace components yourself without enlisting the help of the stealer. There are removal junctions (not bleed ports) at each of the 4 shocks and two more removal junctions on each frame rail at the accumulators. However, the system is definitely sealed and offers no, zero, zip, nada provisions for bleeding any of the components in part or in whole.

This said, if a component fails or if a leak develops and you loose fluid, the only two options are to (1) replace the failing part (with new or used XREAS components) or (2) ditch the whole system and go after market.

Considering the significant costs associated with replacing XREAS components from the stealer, the most viable option for the majority of people is to simply replace with an aftermarket system. I went with ICON components all the way around and could not be happier and experience no noticeable added body roll over my stock XREAS system. I also did the install myself and was able to make 100% sure that everything was installed and functioned properly, such as the sway bars.

If anyone needs XREAS components, I plan on listing my entire system in the classifieds for free, local pickup only in Orange County, CA.
 
Front right and rear left are connected, and front left/rear right are connected. It is possible to replace only one half of the system, don't let people tell you the entire system has to be replaced if you only have one leaking part (or if all leaking parts are part of the same 'half').

Listen, I did the Bilstein 5100 swap per all the hype I've read about 'em in these and other forums, and to be honest was completely miserable after. All four of my XREAS were leaking after I drove several thousand miles doing heavy towing and always loaded the truck heavy for years. I should have installed airbags long ago but never did, so probably could've avoided ruining the system in the first place, but that's history.

I wanted a) more clearance for the off roading I do, b) a cheaper solution than replacing the entire XREAS system. Decided on 5100's in the front with .85" lift, and left the rear alone opting to later install FJ springs or spacers in the back.

BUT once installing the Bilsteins all around and scrapping XREAS, I IMMEDIATELY noticed the following:

- Body roll without XREAS (especially on freeway onramps, mountain roads, and driveway entrances), is VERY noticeable, particularly if you've driven with XREAS for years and have become accustomed to it.
- Nose dives on braking and nose hike?(or whatever you call it) on acceleration was now VERY notieceable and uncomfortable.
- Much more stiffness and jittery feeling on nearly every type of road except an ultra smooth highway.

I lasted ~5,000 miles on that setup and just couldn't deal with it. I finally just pulled the trigger and swapped everything back to XREAS. All new parts all round less the mounting brackets for the center units and clips for the lines. I also added Air Lift 1000 bags to the rear, and the Daystar 2.5/1.5 kit to get the lift I wanted.

I COULD NOT BE HAPPIER! MY SMOOTH RIDE AND GREAT HANDLING ARE BACK!!!! All of the problems above have gone away.

Costs:
- The Bilstein 5100 setup ran me ~$500. Going back to XREAS (completely replacing all parts) cost me ~$1300
(Adding Daystar = ~$150, Adding Airlift = ~$150)

Granted, I did all the labor myself. Took me 1.5 - 2 days, could probably be done faster but I did it all in my driveway, took my time and did a bunch of other stuff while under there (diff. fluids, transfer case, transmission, etc).

So think about it: you could be looking at at around $800 more to get the XREAS ride quality back. BUT, if you go with the Bilsteins Plus FJ Springs (which I did not), then you're probably only at only $600 or so more for new XREAS. THEN, if you only have to replace HALF of your XREAS system, you're now right at around the same price for either except you get the full benefits of XREAS back.

The install is not all that difficult, it just needs to be done right, and if you're like me you'll be 10x happier with the truck back the way you liked it rather than spending all that time and $$ to get some aftermarket solution that frankly rides like crap.

No offense, but in my opinion, half the people who comment on XREAS either don't have the system or have never driven a T4R with it, so they simply don't know what they're talking about on XREAS. The ones that do have it and scrapped it for anything else and say the ride is "better" w/o XREAS, I honestly just don't see any way how that's possible unless they either drive like Grandma or only drive on silky smooth straight highways with no potholes, bumps, or turns.

Bottom line: be sure to really do the math before listening to all the others that keep telling everybody to simply "Scrap XREAS!!!!" "Go with Bilsteins, they're soooooo much better" blah blah blah. For me, all that was utter nonsense. I should have just replaced XREAS in the beginning and saved myself the hassle, time, $$, and frustration. At least I'm happier and wiser now :thumb3:

Big mistake not buying new springs especially if you were towing all the time. That's why the body roll. I scraped my XREAS in my 06 and 08.
 
went to dealer today...unreal.
they wouldn't pass it for inspection because of my cracked exhaust manifold...cost to repair? $2000 with taxes
next, the accumulator and line on one side is leaking, cost to repair? $1400 for the one side!
also said the front left axle had 'no grease' in it, and water came out?
$1000 taxes in to replace...
WTF IS WRONG WITH TOYOTA. $4500 to fix this ****? i miss my old 1990 honda. i don't care what anyone says, an 8 yr old toyota shouldnt require these repairs...and if it does, the parts shouldn't be luxury car prices for parts...are you kidding me?
i'm pondering selling it now, first and last toyota i will ever own if i do.

Why would you go back to the Dealer after it's out of warranty? That's step 1 in car repair. They don't call them stealerships b/c they're inexpensive.
 
Why would you go back to the Dealer after it's out of warranty? That's step 1 in car repair. They don't call them stealerships b/c they're inexpensive.

i went to the dealer because the vehicle had been in a fender bender, and after that, drove like a damn jack in the box compared to before the accident. Insurance doesnt want to foot the bill for any repairs that are not cosmetic, so i thought i would take it to the dealer to get an estimate, and fax it to insurance. most indies and backyard mechanics don't have any knowledge of the xreas system, trust me.
So, where would you buy parts that are only made by toyota (i.e xreas and the exhaust manifold)? there is no aftermarket.
 
for all the guys who swapped out the xreas system for a trad. setup, did the vehicle throw any codes? if so, do you live with them or is there a way to fool the ecu
 
u wont get a code after changing from xreas, unless u damage something during the un/install, but u may get lights & need to do a zero point calibration after the alignment is done.
 
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My xreas were replaced this year on my 03 . Lost one shock and had a line leaking . I replaced them with regular gas shocks . I do not notice that much difference . It still rides really good . You should not get any codes as they are not hooked to comp. or anything . I will never go back to the xreas too much money for them .
 
My xreas were replaced this year on my 03 . Lost one shock and had a line leaking . I replaced them with regular gas shocks . I do not notice that much difference . It still rides really good . You should not get any codes as they are not hooked to comp. or anything . I will never go back to the xreas too much money for them .

what kind of shock did you switch to? i assume you mean that you ripped out all 4 corners and replaced them?
 
Xreas were taken off . I went with monroe gas shocks . I do not do any offroading but do pull a couple different trailers . I am on disability right now with back problems and did not want to spend allot of money ,but have not had any problems with the monroes .
 
Do it

i've done a search, but could not get a real answer to the question, here it is:

i'm most likely going to replace the xreas with a regular shock/suspension setup. I want to replicate or improve the ride quality i had with Xreas, that is softness and handling on the road. I do very little offroading, so lifts/offroad capability don't mean much to me. I use the truck for mostly hwy driving,
thanks in advance

I replace the Xreas , with blisteins 5100 set up at 0.85 and FJ coils , and I love it
you will notice more like an sport car suspention , strong but not harsh ! in highway speed and curves more stability , the car is not going going to have body roll like xreas...if you live in the city with a lot of bump speeds , pot holes this is the set up for you.... , with the Xreas ....the pot holes and bump speed were a problem , you have to slow down a lot ..with this set up you cant even notice , and highway improved the driving..very confortable ...
but this is with coils FJ cruiser and 5100 blinstein in the front and rear
 
For someone who's not automotive handy, will a Toyo dealer install springs and used FJ shocks like that?

What's the next best option if you don't want to have to troll around for used springs?
 
Old thread but since everyone hates when a new one pops up I'll add on...

OP, still around? What did you wind up doing and are you happy with it?

I'm looking for a budget update. I think my Xreas is leaking a tiny bit but worse is that my front springs are pretty beat down (2005, 165k miles in bumpy New England). It rides too harshly for my old bones. I much preferred the way my conventionally shocked 2006 rode.

I am considering swapping out for 4 new springs and 4 new shocks but using 2007 FJ Cruiser stuff for a little bit of lift. Monroe or something like that. I'm not offroading and I just got new stock sized tires so I really don't want any big lift, just want to get that nose up off the ground.

I drive a LOT of bumpy dirt roads and a softer ride than the Xreas would be great. For this reason the common Bilstien route doesn't appeal to me. I'm also considering the Old Man Emu "low lift" combo of parts from Slee but that starts to be near 4 figures in parts and I'm afraid the ride will continue to be harsh.

I'll also do new sway bar bushing and other rubber bits inn the process to try and tighten everything up.

Thoughts?
 
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i just ordered a set of bilstein 5100's for all 4 corners on my 2006 V8, i was going to get the 6112's for the front, but when it came time to pay the parts bill i couldn't justify the extra cost for the 6112's, and went w the height adjustable 5100 upfront and std 5100 in back...will be getting them installed by a local tire shop, the big chain stores like firestone wont install parts that you bring in and their cost to order the shocks wasn't worth it. the place i spoke to about the install said it would be about 70.00 per wheel...
 

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