ndcent
New member
It's a pretty small ask, honestly. Strange it's so opposed. It's almost like people are content to wallow in their own confirmation bias or echo chamber. Different ideas are "scary and unwelcome."
Request to create a new section has been submitted
- Thread starter BrianSD_42
- Start date
- Status
It's a pretty small ask, honestly. Strange it's so opposed. It's almost like people are content to wallow in their own confirmation bias or echo chamber. Different ideas are "scary and unwelcome."
philsey
New member
No, it's because threads like this very predictably devolve into nastiness which is not welcome on this forum, and which I'd rather not wallow in.
I know, I know ... "don't read it if you don't like it" will be the mantra. To which I reply, "don't visit here if you don't like the rules".
Brian made his well-reasoned, and considerate pitch. He received two well-reasoned and considerate replies from two mods which should wrap it up.
Politics-wise, BTW, there are no more "different ideas".
BrianSD_42
New member
I didn't take ndcent's comment to imply that the mods are wallowing in an echo chamber. It isn't a nasty woman comment lol.
I assume he is referring to those members who cannot even view speech they don't agree with without getting sad or angry and emailing off complaints to the mods.
Overall I feel that everyone is reasoned and if the mods have this position then that is their choice. I am glad that thread has cleared the air a bit.
Here is an example of a news article I would have linked in the /politics & news/ section.
Let's not discuss it here as everyone has made it clear that many members (read not the mods) simply are not able to converse as adults. Just read on your own please and don't comment on it.
Anyways I think it is absolutely one of the best written pieces about how we got here.
11-10-16 | Harvard Business Review
What So Many People Don’t Get About the U.S. Working Class
https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-dont-get-about-the-u-s-working-class
Have a good day y'all.
Brian
I assume he is referring to those members who cannot even view speech they don't agree with without getting sad or angry and emailing off complaints to the mods.
Overall I feel that everyone is reasoned and if the mods have this position then that is their choice. I am glad that thread has cleared the air a bit.
Here is an example of a news article I would have linked in the /politics & news/ section.
Let's not discuss it here as everyone has made it clear that many members (read not the mods) simply are not able to converse as adults. Just read on your own please and don't comment on it.
Anyways I think it is absolutely one of the best written pieces about how we got here.
11-10-16 | Harvard Business Review
What So Many People Don’t Get About the U.S. Working Class
https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-dont-get-about-the-u-s-working-class
Have a good day y'all.
Brian
Last edited:
Hepar
New member
In playing a bit of Devil's Advocate, I think that is the key. As it was when political threads were tolerated more, it was ridiculously easy to avoid threads that were such as well as in the threads themselves avoid those who seemed to comment only to get a rise out of people. But people seemed to still read them and complain. Like the train wreck mentality I guess?
philsey
New member
Interesting that what you consider "conversing like adults" includes little immature digs like quoted above. And you wonder why these things devolve?
BrianSD_42
New member
Let's just leave it at the fact that my comment wasn't even directed at you. It wasn't directed at anyone personally.
I support the free exchange of ideas. I believe that fellow 4Runner owners often provide a good community for discussing news and events. Sometimes. Sometimes not. But I would still rather know what you guys think than discuss on Facebook with friends and family. When it comes to friends and family I prefer a backyard BBQ or chilling at the bar to discuss news & politics, not social media.
I remember when someone posted the video of that Dad who took his brat daughters laptop out to the backyard and blew holes in it with his M1911. I remember 1Engineers attempt to intelligently discuss Marijuana legislation and use. I also remember the threads that had to be closed.
The mods do not have an easy job, especially with people requesting intervention so frequently. I am thankful for the free service they provide and will respect the decision.
Last edited:
philsey
New member
Thanks. I didn't take it personally. Guess I'm commenting because I've just had it up to here with this season's politics and just can't take anymore...
JWaldz
Moderator
We're all about support for free exchange of ideas and freedom of speech. We never want any members to feel otherwise. As all things in life though, there's a certain time and place for every topic. You're not gonna sit around the dinner table with your parents and younger siblings talking about your crazy booze, drug, & sex filled weekend. Well, maybe some of you do, but just try to see my point here...
Some people here have no filter and take their freedom of speech too far FOR THE FORUM. We hate to associate those who CAN converse in certain topics in an adult manner with those that cannot, but past experiences have shown it's too tedious and hard on us mods to sift through it all when all hell breaks loose. This happens often enough, and adding politics and religion to the forum would bring even more. Again, if we could guarantee that everyone could act as adults then maybe it would be a different situation. However, it's just not possible on the large forum like this. It's too easy for words to be twisted and misconstrued over the internet these days and there's always someone to either take it wrong, or take it too far.
Some people here have no filter and take their freedom of speech too far FOR THE FORUM. We hate to associate those who CAN converse in certain topics in an adult manner with those that cannot, but past experiences have shown it's too tedious and hard on us mods to sift through it all when all hell breaks loose. This happens often enough, and adding politics and religion to the forum would bring even more. Again, if we could guarantee that everyone could act as adults then maybe it would be a different situation. However, it's just not possible on the large forum like this. It's too easy for words to be twisted and misconstrued over the internet these days and there's always someone to either take it wrong, or take it too far.
Last edited:
-JD-
New member
Just because someone complains or is offended doesn't mean they're right or that the mods are obligated to do anything about it.
What is the big worry if threads aren't heavily moderated? If someone gets offended and a thread ISN'T closed, what happens?
Seems to me that you are also offending members through censorship. This thread being a clear example. Why does one person's whining supersede anothers?
In terms of traffic to the site and active users I know I personally visited more to follow those threads. They also tended to be among the most viewed in off topic. Are we sure that creating a safe space here isn't going to drive away more users than conceding to hurt feelings will?
What is the big worry if threads aren't heavily moderated? If someone gets offended and a thread ISN'T closed, what happens?
Seems to me that you are also offending members through censorship. This thread being a clear example. Why does one person's whining supersede anothers?
In terms of traffic to the site and active users I know I personally visited more to follow those threads. They also tended to be among the most viewed in off topic. Are we sure that creating a safe space here isn't going to drive away more users than conceding to hurt feelings will?
JWaldz
Moderator
People aren't drawn here to talk about politics and such.. They're drawn here b/c they have interest in knowledge or have questions about their 4Runner (or other Toyotas). So being "safe" isn't going to drive anyone away if they're here for the reason the forum was intended.
The world wouldn't end if we had such topics, but the problem is we would hear about it non-stop through reports. We can't just ignore reports, we have obligations to make sure the forum stays as family friendly as possible. This rule wasn't made by us, it was made by admins. Between everything else we have to deal with, why make the extra headache for ourselves.
nevada
Senior Member
unnecessary on both accounts.
those are condescending comments, and meant to start a flame war.
see above. our mods are setting a great example.
sounds to me, like you, 1engineer and anyone else that just cant cut it as a mod should probably step down.
exactly.
yes you can. if they have no basis, other than someone being offended, they certainly can be ignored. by acknowledging them, you are giving them power.
I really think we need a new batch of mods.
Bluesky 07
Senior Member
My take, FWIW...be it politics or most other topics, the outcomes are 1) those who already think like you do will chime in and agree, 2) those who don't will argue until the sun burns out, and 3) no one's view will be significantly changed or even influenced one way or the other.
1) + 2) + 3) = huge waste of time and energy except for whatever reward people get from the forum equivalent of hearing themselves talk and justify their opinions.
With that said, since participation is voluntary, if a willing Mod can be found, why not?
1) + 2) + 3) = huge waste of time and energy except for whatever reward people get from the forum equivalent of hearing themselves talk and justify their opinions.
With that said, since participation is voluntary, if a willing Mod can be found, why not?
Last edited:
JWaldz
Moderator
I'm truly sorry you feel that way.. None of you guys knows what it's like to be a mod. To go through the daily bs we do, it's amazing we've all stuck around as long as we have. You are all too quick to judge. We "ignore" enough reports. But we can't ignore vulgar name calling, instigating flame wars, etc etc.. which is exactly what those topics will bring. These guidelines are in tact for ANY topic, there's nothing new here. "So why not quit being a mod?"... Well, admin likes the group he has and he's happy with the way things are with the forum.
I'd really like to know how acknowledging a user of his actions through messaging or with an infraction, temp ban, or permanent ban is giving them power?? I would think ignoring someone would allow them to think they "got away with it" and therefor feel entitled to do it again.
We're fully aware we cannot appease EVERYONE on the forum. That's part of it. Everyone came to this forum for the same reason.
Last edited:
BrianSD_42
New member
My ideal path forward:
* Current moderators & Admin approves creation of "Politics & News" section
* 2 users volunteer to moderate the new section, rules are set with new mods
* section is opened
It does not look like things are going in that direction. :bolt:
* Current moderators & Admin approves creation of "Politics & News" section
* 2 users volunteer to moderate the new section, rules are set with new mods
* section is opened
It does not look like things are going in that direction. :bolt:
wadle5
New member
Seems just slightly like an over simplification of the process, and then you have elephant in the room, of which 2 users now get the power of the ban hammer and what they deem is justifiable? Seems like you are simplying what would mostly like/naturally evolve into a monster
nevada
Senior Member
that's where you're wrong, I do know what its like to be a mod, and I expect there are many other members here that do as well. I expect there isn't nearly as much "moderation" needed on this site as you seem to what us to think. but my point is, if that moderation is too much for you, perhaps you aren't the right fit for the job.
im referring to the complainers. if their complaint is baseless, IGNORE them. if its just a matter of them being offended by words, ignore them.
a mods job is pretty simple, you people are making it out to be much more than it actually is.
BrianSD_42
New member
Well
the only way for new mods to be promoted is to come from the user base. I wouldn't be making the picks. Perhaps you should apply for the job if this comes forward. Either way it would make sense to add a mod or two who is willing to moderate the new section.I remember you were one of the most outspoken livid users when the WHITSON METALWORKS racks controversy went down. That whole escapade just proves non-political threads can spiral out of control just as fast as any other topic.
Last edited:
wadle5
New member
Well
I remember you were one of the most outspoken livid users when the WHITSON METALWORKS racks controversy went down. That whole escapade just proves non-political threads can spiral out of control just as fast as any other topic.
No i'm fine...and I don't know about livid...I simply proved that the owner of the opposing company opened a fake acct and so did his employee and tried playing the innocent card and hide their identity. . . but yes I guess I was wrong..........
I guess if you call catching a patent troll in their tracks and not being honest up front or answering basic questions prior to and after being caught in the act spiraling out of control then yes I agree?
- Status
