Ride Quality Question

[stever1000]

I am planning on replacing my worn suspension (sagging rear) with the OME 906 rear springs + bilstein shocks and for the front I am unsure on what to match with. Either using the stock front coils and the adjustable height bilstein or a new coil as well. The front doesn't look like it has sagged like the rear but I imagine that replacing the front coils would be benefificla as well.

I can't find new/cheap 99 coils (with low miles) so my next option is the OME coils. I want 0-2" lift (prefrably less) as my 2000 is just a pavement pounder and weekend camping rig...

Would I be better suited using my stock front springs and new shocks or new front coils and new shocks to match the 906/bilstein in the rear?

Most people seem to be using 99 coils but I can't go that route

Thanks!

 

[pkachoochoo]

I haven't started my suspension yet but from what I've read a lot of people will pair OME 880 with the 906 and bilstein 5100

 

[stever1000]

Thanks, any idea if the 880 have good ride quality on road

 

[KamKoz]

I run 881/906 with OME 60073 shocks. I have 10mm trim packers in the rear and things sit with just a bit of rake in the rear. Ride quality is great on and off road but is noticeably more stiff over stock. Overall quite happy with the setup besides the fact I am already considering 3" all around.

 

[sleepydad]

Thanks, any idea if the 880 have good ride quality on road

I have an icon setup... pretty much exactly the same as bilstein really. I was shooting for 2.5" of lift.

I ran the 906 NOT 880 in the rear for a while, they ride very close to stock. they did sag pretty quickly for me, but I'm running a lot of extra weight in the back. if your not running a lot of extra pounds in the rear I think 906 are a great way to go.

I was about to go 880 or 881 after I squished the 906 NOT 880's but a lot of people say they are harsh. I'm a ***** about ride quality on road so... I don't need a lumber wagon.

I went with toytec superflex 3" in the rear. very happy with them. I have a bit of rake but I like that part.

 

[phattyduck]

If you are going with 5100's in the rear, why not match with 5100's in the front? They are designed for OEM springs and you can slightly lift the front end one or two notches to reduce the rake the 906's will give you otherwise.

A 'worn out' spring only becomes harsh or rough if you end up riding on the bump stops (assuming they aren't rusted out, which can happen). Once lifted back off the bump stops, they will ride great again with good shocks.

-Charlie

 

[Tatonka]

I’m running the 906s with OME shocks in the rear (ride great!) and chose to match them with the Toytec Boss coilivers up front.

The Boss’ entail more initial cost but the ease of adjusting them as I’ve added things like an aftermarket bumper, winch, etc saved me a lot of effort and $ as my 3rd gen 4runner evolved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Scramble]

I am planning on replacing my worn suspension (sagging rear) with the OME 906 rear springs + bilstein shocks and for the front I am unsure on what to match with. Either using the stock front coils and the adjustable height bilstein or a new coil as well. The front doesn't look like it has sagged like the rear but I imagine that replacing the front coils would be benefificla as well.

I can't find new/cheap 99 coils (with low miles) so my next option is the OME coils. I want 0-2" lift (prefrably less) as my 2000 is just a pavement pounder and weekend camping rig...

Would I be better suited using my stock front springs and new shocks or new front coils and new shocks to match the 906/bilstein in the rear?

Most people seem to be using 99 coils but I can't go that route

Thanks!

You should be more specific on which Bilsteins you want to use. (HD 4600's, Tundra, 4th gen, 3rd gen, etc) Use your stock front coils with new 4runner 5100's until you find a set of 99's. There's not much difference between the 2. 2000's are around the same height as the 98's.

 

[Scramble]

I have an icon setup... pretty much exactly the same as bilstein really. I was shooting for 2.5" of lift.

I ran the 906 NOT 880 in the rear for a while, they ride very close to stock. they did sag pretty quickly for me, but I'm running a lot of extra weight in the back. if your not running a lot of extra pounds in the rear I think 906 are a great way to go.

I was about to go 880 or 881 after I squished the 906 NOT 880's but a lot of people say they are harsh. I'm a ***** about ride quality on road so... I don't need a lumber wagon.

I went with toytec superflex 3" in the rear. very happy with them. I have a bit of rake but I like that part.

Aren't 880's for the fronts?

 

[octanejunkie]

I would replace shocks all around. OME 906s will give you about a 2" lift which you can match with the preload on the height-adjustable bilstien front shocks. If you are not putting extra weight up front the Tacoma/4runner shock will be fine, where many of us go with Tundra shocks when adding aftermarket bumpers and winches.

If you are going to preload the front spring (adjustable shock) you should consider sticking with the same coils vs going to a taller or stiffer spring. You can always upgrade the spring later if you don't care for the ride quality.

That is just my $0.02

 

[stever1000]

You should be more specific on which Bilsteins you want to use. (HD 4600's, Tundra, 4th gen, 3rd gen, etc) Use your stock front coils with new 4runner 5100's until you find a set of 99's. There's not much difference between the 2. 2000's are around the same height as the 98's.

My front's aren't riding on the bumpstops so maybe they haven't sagged.

I don't want to use '99 coils up front unless I can find nearly new coils (which are expensive) so I don't have to worry about age or sag

If I use my original front coils (300,000km on them) the bilstein height adjust shocks will allow me to level out the 906 in the rear, correct?

What would be the cons of going with the OME 880 in the front instead of my stock coils? (aside from additional cost).

My thoughts were if I am changing the shocks I have to remove the coil anyway, so I might as well change the coil to a new one as well?

I plan to go with the 5100 bilsteins for the 4runner as I don't have any plans for bumper or winch.

 

[stever1000]

hmm camelback toyota has the 99 front coils for $139/ea and the cheapest I found the front 880 coils were $169/pair

 

[stever1000]

I would replace shocks all around. OME 906s will give you about a 2" lift which you can match with the preload on the height-adjustable bilstien front shocks. If you are not putting extra weight up front the Tacoma/4runner shock will be fine, where many of us go with Tundra shocks when adding aftermarket bumpers and winches.

If you are going to preload the front spring (adjustable shock) you should consider sticking with the same coils vs going to a taller or stiffer spring. You can always upgrade the spring later if you don't care for the ride quality.

That is just my $0.02

That's a fair suggestion. I do plan to change all 4 shocks minimum, I just don't know about the springs.

So you're saying that using the height adjust on the bilstein shocks actually changes the spring rate of the coil? Meaning a stiff spring would ride stiffer if adjusted above the 0" perch?

 

[octanejunkie]

That's a fair suggestion. I do plan to change all 4 shocks minimum, I just don't know about the springs.

So you're saying that using the height adjust on the bilstein shocks actually changes the spring rate of the coil? Meaning a stiff spring would ride stiffer if adjusted above the 0" perch?

I've been through a few sets of used springs up front, mostly to get the experience of different rides, it's a bit of work to change them out but not the end of the world

EDIT
If you pre-compress the spring you DO NOT change the rate, but you will change it's rebound characteristics and overall performance by compressing the spring beyond its pre load. Some people like the ride of a pre-compressed, softer spring on a stiffer shock, vs a taller, uncompressed stiffer spring. It's subjective and you should play around to see what you like, and obviously research, research, research.

(nod to [MENTION=139000]phattyduck[/MENTION] for the lesson in statistics and beers)

 

[Scramble]

hmm camelback toyota has the 99 front coils for $139/ea and the cheapest I found the front 880 coils were $169/pair

My front's aren't riding on the bumpstops so maybe they haven't sagged.

I don't want to use '99 coils up front unless I can find nearly new coils (which are expensive) so I don't have to worry about age or sag

If I use my original front coils (300,000km on them) the bilstein height adjust shocks will allow me to level out the 906 in the rear, correct?

What would be the cons of going with the OME 880 in the front instead of my stock coils? (aside from additional cost).

My thoughts were if I am changing the shocks I have to remove the coil anyway, so I might as well change the coil to a new one as well?

I plan to go with the 5100 bilsteins for the 4runner as I don't have any plans for bumper or winch.

I agree, if you're changing the struts up front you might as well change the springs. They get soft over time & I bet you're experiencing the nose dive when hitting the brakes. The new 99's aren't that expensive & you're spending big bucks on the Bilsteins. You can save money by installing the Billy HD 4600's since you aren't lifting. They're cheap on Amazon. The 99 talls are only an inch shorter than the 906's, I'd leave the tiny rake. If you raise an adjustable Billy upfront the ride will get stiffer.

 

[phattyduck]

If you pre-compress the spring you change the rate, yes, because you are already compressing the spring. Some people like the ride of a pre-compressed, softer spring on a stiffer shock, vs a taller, uncompressed stiffer spring. It's subjective and you should play around to see what you like, and obviously research, research, research

I'm gonna have to disagree with this...

Within reason, preloading springs won't change the rate at ride height. The change in perceived spring rate comes from two things:
- Change in static location on the shock, where there might be different dampening characteristics (often stiffer near the extremes of travel)
- Uneven travel of the shock. Topping and bottoming both create a harsh ride. Too much pre-load can allow the shock to top out more often.

Preloading does change the INITIAL spring rate, but once the the spring is compressed more than the preload, it doesn't 'know' whether it is preload force or just compression force from the vehicle, so the spring rate is the same.

-Charlie

 

[octanejunkie]

I'm gonna have to disagree with this...

And I assumed someone would lol

And you are technically correct, but your butt doesn't know this, and that is the subjective and often only tangible aspect to the driver - how does it feel when it is mounted on the vehicle with a shock and driven in varying conditions.

Also, I like to make things complicated :banplease:

 

[phattyduck]

Also, I like to make things complicated :banplease:

Let's just say springs as a complete subject are not a simple thing. I long ago forgot as much of my statics class as possible... :cheers:

-Charlie

 

[2ndhandyotaman]

Let's just say springs as a complete subject are not a simple thing. I long ago forgot as much of my statics class as possible... :cheers:

-Charlie

2 years ago I had a physics 200 level class ( as a review for getting back into the swing of things), I had forgotten how much fun calculating the good 'ole K factor could be. I realized at that point how much I sucked at making usable spreadsheets in Excel !

 

[Tyler James Inc]

I ran the 906 NOT 880 in the rear for a while, they ride very close to stock.
I was about to go 880 or 881 after I squished the 906 NOT 880's but a lot of people say they are harsh.
I went with toytec superflex 3" in the rear. very happy with them.

1) What's with the "906 NOT 880" thing??
2) ToyTec has a 3" rear spring, and a Superflex(3.75") spring. A Superflex 3" coil doesn't exist. I'm only bringing this up to give clarity to people using your example to possibly copy for themselves.

Aren't 880's for the fronts?

[emoji847]

I would definitely recommend the 906/880 combo with 4Runner 5100 front and rear. Buy from Wheelers, and have them assemble the fronts for you- it makes the front a complete breeze. If you don't, you have to get additional bushings for the top, get new top plates(unless you want to use your old ones, which means compressing those springs too)use spring compressors, almost die- all that.
I installed 3" ToyTec rear coils, 881 front coils, and 5100 all around on my buddy's 4R, and it rides so nice! Much better than mine with the '99 tall fronts with added pre-load to get it to the same height as the 881 on the bottom 5100 perch. His has a pretty good rake to it with the 3" rear and 881 front, so I'd bet you would have a comparable rake. If you want it to sit a little more level, either go with the 881, or have Wheelers set the 880 on the second or third perch. Since I don't have experience with the 906's, I can't give any insight to where they sit.
Here is the ToyTec 3" rear with OME 881 front-

That was only a week or so after install, and I feel like the 881 have settled some, while the 3" rears have not. He's my neighbor- so I see his rig daily- and it looks a little too nose-low right now. We'll probably go up a notch or two in the front to make it sit a little more level. Tires are just under 32" tall.