Roof Rack Advice

[tbm]

I recently purchased a 2008 Certified Used 4Runner. I do a lot of kayaking, so one of the criteria for the purchase was the ability to outfit the 4runner with my Yakima racks. When I went to install the racks, I noticed the rack was not positioned in the typical location and was bolted into the roof. For this reason, the rack flexes when you pull up or when weight is applied. It is my opinion and that of most everyone (with the exception of the Toyota dealer) that the rack will not support my boats, etc. I questioned the dealer and stated that I didn't think the rack should have passed the 160 point inspection as one of the criteria is "inspection of aftermarket parts / removal of substandard aftermarket parts".

It is my opinion that this is not an acceptable aftermarket part. Since this rack does not allow me to use the vehicle as I would be able to if it was the Toyota rack installed in the right position. They dealer contends that though the rack might not do what I want it to, it is an acceptable rack.

The solution isn't as simple as buying a toyota rack as removing the existing rack would leave bolt holes in my roof. Do I have a case, if so what steps should I take to get this rectified?

Thanks in advance for the advice.

 

[ToyTech99]

I'm also a kayaker. I have no issues whatsoever using the factory rack to support a kayak (or two). I have a Thule Slipstream XT kayak rack attached to my factory roof rack. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the Slipstream, but it has a built-in roller in the back and it has the ability to slide back to clear the roof spoiler on my 4Runner. My kayak is a Perception Carolina 14', which weighs about 55 lbs. Although I usually only have one kayak on my roof, I've had two of them on several occasions and the roof rack supported them both just fine.

 

[ToyTech99]

Forgot to say---

Are you sure that the roof rack is aftermarket? The reason I ask is because all factory roof racks on the 4Runner are bolted into the roof. That's just how they attach to the vehicle. How would you expect the factory rack to be attached if it weren't bolted on?

 

[tbm]

This is not a factory rack

Thanks for the response and I would be fine IF I had the factory rack.

What I have is some rack that was installed (essentially for aestetics) aftermarket that is not sturdy and installed directly in the roof sheet metal. I should not have used the word bolted as it is installed only with sheet metal screws. As I am sure you are familar, there are locations in the gutter area along the sides of the roof that is reinforced where the factory racks are installed. Mine is placed about 3 inches inside that on the actual roof. If that makes sense?

When I load boats (or anything) the roof flexes tremendously.

 

[ToyTech99]

What I have is some rack that was installed (essentially for aestetics) aftermarket that is not sturdy and installed directly in the roof sheet metal. I should not have used the word bolted as it is installed only with sheet metal screws. As I am sure you are familar, there are locations in the gutter area along the sides of the roof that is reinforced where the factory racks are installed. Mine is placed about 3 inches inside that on the actual roof. If that makes sense?

.

Oh boy.... now I see what you're saying. It's actually screwed into the sheetmetal? I'd absolutely raise hell with the dealer, as it's a bad idea to puncture the roof sheet metal with screws. Do you have any leaks when it rains?

I suspect even the dealer didn't realize that they were selling a 4Runner with an aftermarket roof rack that was screwed into the roof. Like you, they probably never stepped up to examine it closely. If this is a Certified used vehicle, then I think you have a real good case against the dealer. If the dealer doesn't cooperate, just call Toyota's regional office and file a complaint. That's total BS and I'd be really upset if I were in your shoes. Good luck.

 

[tbm]

Due to web restrictions, I can't post pics at work.....but please follow this link

http://saludayakerz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4697

for the same thread on another forum a few weeks back, there are some pics about halfway down.

Also, I am positive the rack is not OEM.

 

[ToyTech99]

After a little more thought, I think this is what I'd do:

If I liked the vehicle and am happy with it overall, I'd go back to the dealer and tell them that I want them to remove the aftermarket rack, have their body shop fill all the holes (with metal, not body filler), repaint the entire roof, and then install an OEM Toyota rack. That's really not a big cost to the dealer and they should take care of you. If they don't, then start complaining to Toyota and explain your case.

If you can't get them to help you and you still want to keep the vehicle, then just unbolt that POS aftermarket rack and have your local body shop fill the holes & repaint the roof. Then you can buy an OEM roof rack cheap from someone on this forum. I see them for sale in the classified section pretty often. At least that's better than paying full price from a dealer.

 

[ToyTech99]

....

 

[tbm]

The dealer has not been cooperative thus far on the issue. When I noticed the rack issue, I took a closer look at the 160-Point Inspection and a few more things came to light. None of them huge issues, but further proof that the 160-Point Inspection was not completed.

1. vehicle did not come with floor mats, Certified requires it does. I had to go back and ask after the fact, which they took care of.
2. there is hail damage on the roof. Again, not a big deal to me...but one of the 160-points is the vehicle is free of dents
3. the headlight aim is not correct, again an easy fix, but one of the 160-points is "headlight aim okay"
4. the roof rack BS. 2 of the 160 Points are as follows - "acceptable aftermarket items checked" and "removal of unacceptbale aftermarket items". it is my opinion that they SHOULD have removed this rack prior to certification. they can say that the rack has a 100 lb capacity (which is near the OEM rack) all they want, but it bends the durn roof when I load my boats, which can NOT be good for the vehicle.

The dealer had their rack guy look at it who claims that the rack is "acceptable" and basically that I have no case. I am going to visit them one more time, tell them that if they can't help me, I'm going to have to contact Toyota and the Better Business Bureau.

Am I out of line here? I know that the dealer didn't knowingly sell me a car that I can't use like I want to, but the fact is...they did. For 80% of owners who wouldn't utilize the rack, its no big deal. But I will use the rack at least once a week with 100-150 lbs of boats.....

 

[ToyTech99]

The dealer has not been cooperative thus far on the issue. When I noticed the rack issue, I took a closer look at the 160-Point Inspection and a few more things came to light. None of them huge issues, but further proof that the 160-Point Inspection was not completed.

1. vehicle did not come with floor mats, Certified requires it does. I had to go back and ask after the fact, which they took care of.
2. there is hail damage on the roof. Again, not a big deal to me...but one of the 160-points is the vehicle is free of dents
3. the headlight aim is not correct, again an easy fix, but one of the 160-points is "headlight aim okay"
4. the roof rack BS. 2 of the 160 Points are as follows - "acceptable aftermarket items checked" and "removal of unacceptbale aftermarket items". it is my opinion that they SHOULD have removed this rack prior to certification. they can say that the rack has a 100 lb capacity (which is near the OEM rack) all they want, but it bends the durn roof when I load my boats, which can NOT be good for the vehicle.

The dealer had their rack guy look at it who claims that the rack is "acceptable" and basically that I have no case. I am going to visit them one more time, tell them that if they can't help me, I'm going to have to contact Toyota and the Better Business Bureau.

Am I out of line here? I know that the dealer didn't knowingly sell me a car that I can't use like I want to, but the fact is...they did. For 80% of owners who wouldn't utilize the rack, its no big deal. But I will use the rack at least once a week with 100-150 lbs of boats.....

No, you're not out of line and I'd bet that if you contact Toyota directly, they'll have your dealer fix it at no cost to you. Of course you can always bring up the other items you mentioned as well...

BTW, the question isn't whether or not the aftermarket rack can support a similar amount of weight as the OEM rack because I'm sure it can. The issue is that this aftermarket rack is screwed into the sheetmetal and CANNOT possibly be nearly as sturdy/strong as the OEM rack because of the way it is installed. Maybe you should just tear the roof rack rails out of your roof and then bring your 4Runner back to the dealer and tell them that it happened when you were loading your boat on the roof. Then tell them to fix it under warranty because you were using the roof rack as intended and didn't overload it with anything heavier than the roof rack was rated.

Seriously, if your dealer is giving you a hard time, you should deal with Toyota directly. I'm certain they will take care of you.

 

[tbm]

Here is my current plan - what do you think? I am going to send the certified letter (below) today asking for their response.

To whom it may concern:

On August 26, 2009, I purchased a Certified Used 2008 Toyota 4Runner SR5 from _____ in _____. After purchasing, I became aware of several deficiencies in the vehicle that were not addressed in the rigorous 160-Point Inspection completed prior to my purchase of the vehicle. These deficiencies are listed below.
• The vehicle did not come equipped with floor mats. At the time of purchase, I inquired as to this and was informed that used vehicles were “as is”. This problem has since been rectified and is no longer an issue and is only documented as to illustrate negligence of 160-Point Inspection criteria “Interior Condition & Appearance – Floor mats and carpets are in place and in good condition”.
• The headlight aim on the vehicle is not correct. 160-Point Inspection criteria “Lighting System – Headlight aim okay”
• There is extensive hail damage on the roof of the vehicle. 160-Point Inspection criteria “Exterior Condition & Appearance – Body is free of all dents”
• The existing roof rack on the vehicle does not meet the quality of a factory Toyota rack. I wish to use the vehicle to transportation whitewater kayaks and have added appropriate aftermarket Yakima racking system. However, after consulting with local outdoor equipment retailers and certified Yakima retailers, I have been advised that the existing roof rack on the vehicle is not capable of supporting the loading. The existing rack is attached into the roof with sheet metal screws of the vehicle and not in the reinforced area where a factory Toyota rack would have been installed. For this reason, the rack bases flex the roof of the vehicle when loaded. It is my opinion, as well as that of experts, that the rack is potentially hazardous. For this reason, this rack should have been removed prior to Certification of the vehicle as it does not meet 160-Point Inspection criteria “Exterior Condition & Appearance – Acceptable aftermarket items checked” and “Exterior Condition & Appearance – Removal of unacceptable aftermarket items”. I discussed with the salesperson, at length, that a primary function of the vehicle was to transport multiple kayaks. Had I been advised that the device was not an OEM rack, I would have not purchased the vehicle.

In summary, it is requested that the above items be addressed by ______ Toyota and as per the Toyota 160-Point Inspection. Please contact me informing me of your plan to rectify this situation. If you can not, I will be forced to used other options afforded me as a consumer and a purchaser of a Certified Used Toyota vehicle.




Sincerely,




What do you think?

 

[ToyTech99]

I think that looks good, but before you send out that letter, please trying talking to someone from Toyota (not the dealership) and explain your situation. If you can talk to someone on the phone, that's great, but if you can manage to talk to someone face-to-face you'll be even better off.

You might even want to go back to your dealership one more time and tell them that you NEED to get this resolved right away or you will be forced to contact Toyota directly. Who knows, maybe they'll be more inclined to help you if they know you'll complain to Toyota. Anyway, that's what I'd do if I were in your shoes.

 

[toto]

It sounds like the question boils down to whether or not the aftermarket rack is an "acceptable" accessory. I would think that Toyota corporate would say that it's not, just because it's mounted in a location that's not designed to bear any weight. You can see the spots in the tracks where the OEM rack is supposed to be attached. The rack isn't there just for looks - it really is meant to have a useful function.

That said, I'd be careful about talking about 150 pounds of boats. The OEM rack, mounted correctly, is rated at only 120 pounds. If you say you want to put 150 pounds on it, then the whole question becomes moot as an OEM rack wouldn't solve the problem either. So, I'd say I want to put 100 pounds of boats on it.

It's a good thing that this truck is Toyota Certified Used, or you wouldn't have a case. The whole thing hinges on that clause about "removal of unacceptable accessories". Without that, the dealer would be correct about the "as-is" disclaimer. Since it is Certified, there should have been enough profit margin built into the sale for the dealer to make this right as ToyTech99 suggests.

I would certainly proceed as you have described. Good luck.

 

[tbm]

Thanks for the input, you are correct about the 150 pounds. I have seen that the OEM rack is rated at 120 and they dealer pulled the specs on the aftermarket rack and says that it can hold 110 lbs and is installed in the proper location for that rack. Apparently, the aftermarket racks don't have the same bolt pattern as the OEM racks so there is no way to install those on the correct location.

I believe the existing rack may hold 110 lbs as it states (with flexing the roof), but I am positive the OEM rack with my Yakima rack will hold much more. Though, as you pointed out...thats a moot point.

I just got off the phone with SE toyota, who is going to do a little research and get back with me. It sounded like they were a little more on my side than the dealer.

Thanks all and I'll keep you posted.

 

[JMac]

I wish to use the vehicle to transportation whitewater kayaks and have added appropriate aftermarket Yakima racking system.

If you do have to use this letter, it looks great. As I was reading through it quickly, I noticed the line above. I believe that it should be "transport" rather than "transportation." I just thought that I would point that out, so your letter would be even more bullet-proof. I'm glad Toyota is appearing to be helpful in this, they usually are. Good luck with the whole situation!

 

[tbm]

Thanks for catching that, there were several typo's that I ran across.

I am hopeful that Toyota is going to hold the dealer to the fire. I have a hard time believing that Toyota would want to certify a vehicle that had a rack of a lesser quality than theirs.

 

[tbm]

Not sure how it's going to work out. SE Toyota followed up and told me to expect a call from the dealer to bring the vehicle back in. I assume I will be showing the vehicle to same folks who have told me "no dice" twice before.

I wonder if they will be motivated to make me happy since SE Toyota is breathing down their back?

 

[tbm]

After having SE Toyota contact the dealer, they are still refusing to offer any reasonable solution. They claim that the aftermarket rack is as good as a toyota rack, therefore it is acceptable and passes the 160 point inspection. How in the world can a rack connected to my roof with sheet screws be as good as a Toyota rack??? Anyone have any advice on who to contact next. I am on hold with Toyota Corporate right now, will it be more of the same???

 

[ToyTech99]

Wow, that's surprising. I guess the dealer is sticking to it's guns. I guess your last hope is to complain to Toyota Corporate and try to have them send out a field rep to discuss it with you.

BTW, your dealership sucks ass. This is piss poor customer service. Those idiots must not realize that it would be cheaper for them to make you happy in the long run. I don't know how/why people don't understand that simple concept.... negative information travels at the speed of light. You'll tell people about your bad experience and they'll tell other people, etc... Pretty soon there are a lot of people in your area that have heard negative stories about the dealership instead of a positive story. Hell, maybe you should call one of those "help me" news guys and see if he'll put your story on the air.

But like I said, if I were in your shoes and I exhausted all other options already, I'd remove that aftermarket rack and have a body shop fill the holes and respray the roof. Then you just need to find someone selling his rack for cheap and you're all set. I see factory racks for sale fairly often on this forum.

 

[tbm]

Yeah, you're telling me! I visited another Toyota dealer in town and there response was "they have to help". Well, as it turns out SE Toyota and Corporate won't do anything because the dealers are the ones who back the 160 Point inspection. I just think its really crappy business. It's really a dumb business move on their part...I am a 25 year old, recently married guy. In my lifetime, I will purchase another 10 or more cars....and NONE from them. Thats a possible half a million dollars, that these fools are going to miss their chance at. I have a fairly large circle of friends and as they say "bad news travels fast". I am already penning my letter to the Better Business Bureau and letter to "The State" paper. You never wanna wage a war with someone who buys ink by the gallon.

The dealer offered to get me a roof rack at cost, but I'm not even sure want to deal with them anymore. At this point, I am very unhappy with their "solution" and don't even know if I should appease them by taking them up on there offer. If I wanted to buy a new rack, I think I'd rather pay an honest dealer, haven't decided on that yet.

Also, for the record...I recommend everyone to boycott D I C K Dyer Toyota in Columbia, SC.