Rotational grinding noise - brand new rear brakes

[lucidberries]

My mechanic at the shop replaced the rear drums, shoes, cylinders, and all hardware. 2000 4runner.

It was silent for a bit but after a few thousand km it started making a pretty bad rotational grinding/screeching/wincing noise from the rear.

It is not really present when cold only after driving for a bit, and most noticeable when braking 30-60% ish. (hard stops are fine, very light pedal also no noise)

The shop warrantied the drums, and I have had it in there twice now they have taken them apart and sanded, cleaned, etc. We are both stumped and considering taking it to the dealer for just another opinion...

Wondering what else to look at, we are both going a bit mad.

 

[brillo_76]

My mechanic at the shop replaced the rear drums, shoes, cylinders, and all hardware. 2000 4runner.

It was silent for a bit but after a few thousand km it started making a pretty bad rotational grinding/screeching/wincing noise from the rear.

It is not really present when cold only after driving for a bit, and most noticeable when braking 30-60% ish. (hard stops are fine, very light pedal also no noise)

The shop warrantied the drums, and I have had it in there twice now they have taken them apart and sanded, cleaned, etc. We are both stumped and considering taking it to the dealer for just another opinion...

Wondering what else to look at, we are both going a bit mad.

How about the axle wheel bearings going bad? As they could have enough wear that the hub is moving slightly causing your issue as a possibility.

Or possibly a bent wheel hub on the axle is all that would come to mind as to cause this issue.

The dust shield around the drum is another cause of grinding noise back there. However, when the drum is on and you spin it you hear that hit instantly.

 

[the_welfare_wagon]

Probably gonna be very hard to do but is there anyway you could upload a video of it making the noise?


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[lucidberries]

Probably gonna be very hard to do but is there anyway you could upload a video of it making the noise?


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I will try yeah, I was going to do this to help my mechanic as well

 

[lucidberries]

How about the axle wheel bearings going bad? As they could have enough wear that the hub is moving slightly causing your issue as a possibility.

Or possibly a bent wheel hub on the axle is all that would come to mind as to cause this issue.

The dust shield around the drum is another cause of grinding noise back there. However, when the drum is on and you spin it you hear that hit instantly.

I appreciate the comment - would this all be relevant knowing that when I pull the e-brake it makes the noise? I missed that detail, sorry...

 

[brillo_76]

I appreciate the comment - would this all be relevant knowing that when I pull the e-brake it makes the noise? I missed that detail, sorry...

Sounds like the drums are trying to center......are the brake shoes adjusted properly because you pulling the e brake is applying the brake shoes. Also make sure the bell cranks and cable pivot points move freely.

As the shoes will press onto the drums when applying. Will the e brake stop the car? If not, it's majorly out of adjustment


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[lucidberries]

Sounds like the drums are trying to center......are the brake shoes adjusted properly because you pulling the e brake is applying the brake shoes. Also make sure the bell cranks and cable pivot points move freely.

As the shoes will press onto the drums when applying. Will the e brake stop the car? If not, it's majorly out of adjustment


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My mechanic mentioned they adjusted everything a few times now, including the e-brake cable - once it was too tight then they tried backing it off. It does stop the truck but it is quite weak. I'm not sure what to expect though since it has never had much stopping power in my 4 years of ownership.

I am sort of reaching out to gather some insights here to round up and bring back when we chat next week. Thanks for any and all feedback

 

[the_welfare_wagon]

My mechanic mentioned they adjusted everything a few times now, including the e-brake cable - once it was too tight then they tried backing it off. It does stop the truck but it is quite weak. I'm not sure what to expect though since it has never had much stopping power in my 4 years of ownership.

I am sort of reaching out to gather some insights here to round up and bring back when we chat next week. Thanks for any and all feedback

Having had a lot of issues with my rear brakes I will say this. Manually adjusting them is ok but it’s very easy to go too tight. You want to hear the shoes LIGHTLY rub on the drum when you spin the wheel

I would make sure your bell cranks are working properly, which since everything is new back there they should be and back them off till you know they are loose. Then basically just keep pulling the Ebrake until they are tight. Sit there and crank it like 50 times. Once they are tight the adjusters will slip so they can’t overtighten. Then for added measure I tighten by one more click and this has always worked perfectly for me.

Having the proper adjustment for the rear brakes will help even the playing field and cross one area out when troubleshooting


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[brillo_76]

Are you sure you don't have any air in your brake system. These can be very tricky to bleed and air can get stuck in the abs acutators. I am just trying to think on what else could cause rear brake issues.

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[mtbtim]

My educated guess is the replacement drums and replacement shoes were aftermarket. Aftermarket drums and shoes are notorious for sucking. It would be quite the coincidence for the wheel bearings to go out shortly after doing the rear brakes. Using logic, the culprit for the noise most likely has something to do with the recent brake job.

Buy some OEM rotors and OEM shoes and I bet your problems will be gone.

Instead of bringing it back to the mechanic for the umpteenth time, you could use the video [MENTION=148218]JZiggy[/MENTION] and I made, and do the job yourself. But, if the mechanic is doing the work for free, then I guess it would be worthwhile to let them do it one more time.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IJkVEBYSecs?si=YAphwHrXDu10_zVi" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Sarki]

I’m with Tim on the use of aftermarket drums/shoes.
When I did my rear axle seals/bearings I initially had fitment issues with the aftermarket shoes I installed.
Instead of jerking around I ordered up some OEM shoes & drums from Conicelli Toyota. 30K miles and no issues.
I also rebuilt the bell cranks as they were a mess.

 

[brillo_76]

I disagree.

I never had issues with aftermarket shoes rotors or drums. As I haven't use Toyota oem brake parts for years. Especially the pads or shoes. This is very interesting.


So you guys want the Op to just throw the shoes and drums out and buy OEM?

I just run these till shoes are junk and go from there. Because I really don't think the OP does he own work and will have to pay again to have the work done again with OEM parts.

That is if the e brake will stop the car quickly. As the rear is only 10% braking and it's main purpose is the emergency brake.

I use this as a learning experience but this is just me.


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[Sarki]

I disagree.

I never had issues with aftermarket shoes rotors or drums. As I haven't use Toyota oem brake parts for years. Especially the pads or shoes. This is very interesting.


So you guys want the Op to just throw the shoes and drums out and buy OEM?

I just run these till shoes are junk and go from there. Because I really don't think the OP does he own work and will have to pay again to have the work done again with OEM parts.

That is if the e brake will stop the car quickly. As the rear is only 10% braking and it's main purpose is the emergency brake.

I use this as a learning experience but this is just me.


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Just sharing my experience with aftermarket brake components.
Bought the brake parts from Autozone so it was easy enough for me to return them when I ran into fitment issues. I should have known better as I also had fitment problem with the front pads on my T100 from Autozone.
On that occasion it was clear the pads from Autozone were not correct as once I purchased the OEM pads from Toyota the difference in the pads was obvious.
I live in an area with some winding and steep roads so I need all the braking power I can get as we all know the factory brakes are marginal on these trucks.

 

[brillo_76]

Nothing wrong with that. I am suspecting a Belcranks or emergency brake cable not functioning properly or slightly sticking on this one. Possibly the pivot point on the cable seized.

As I believe the OP mentioned, this only occurs when using the emergency brake. If the emergency brake cable isn't pulling properly or if the bellcranks are not releasing and moving freely. The drums will not fit on properly.

I rather see the problem be found and fixed. Then playing the parts cannon game.

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[mtbtim]

I’m with Tim on the use of aftermarket drums/shoes.
When I did my rear axle seals/bearings I initially had fitment issues with the aftermarket shoes I installed.
Instead of jerking around I ordered up some OEM shoes & drums from Conicelli Toyota. 30K miles and no issues.
I also rebuilt the bell cranks as they were a mess.

Yep, we both know what the culprit is. I can't count how many stories I've heard of people having issues with aftermarket drums and shoes. I have no doubt aftermarket drums and shoes are the issue, unless the mechanic doing the job is severely incompetent. Our drum brakes are incredibly easy to work on.

 

[lucidberries]

Nothing wrong with that. I am suspecting a Belcranks or emergency brake cable not functioning properly or slightly sticking on this one. Possibly the pivot point on the cable seized.

As I believe the OP mentioned, this only occurs when using the emergency brake. If the emergency brake cable isn't pulling properly or if the bellcranks are not releasing and moving freely. The drums will not fit on properly.

I rather see the problem be found and fixed. Then playing the parts cannon game.

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The noise is apparent when lightly pressing the brakes after I've been driving for a short while - I was just able to isolate the noise as the rear brakes by also hearing it when I pull the e-brake.

As for aftermarket parts, I was told the shop uses Raybestos which to my knowledge is a pretty reputable brand - they also did a warranty replacement on the rear drums already as part of the initial diagnostics.

As for the bellcranks, I am unsure of the status but I will add this as a note of interest along with the brake fluid, and triple checking the e-brake to rule out more variables.

Appreciate the comments guys!

 

[mtbtim]

The noise is apparent when lightly pressing the brakes after I've been driving for a short while - I was just able to isolate the noise as the rear brakes by also hearing it when I pull the e-brake.

As for aftermarket parts, I was told the shop uses Raybestos which to my knowledge is a pretty reputable brand - they also did a warranty replacement on the rear drums already as part of the initial diagnostics.

As for the bellcranks, I am unsure of the status but I will add this as a note of interest along with the brake fluid, and triple checking the e-brake to rule out more variables.

Appreciate the comments guys!

Ok, I'll give it one more attempt and then give up. Let's again apply some common sense to this problem. No noise before the brake job. Rotational noise apparent while applying the brakes after the brake job. New aftermarket drums and shoes installed. Hmmmmm, I wonder if it has something to do with the new drums and/or shoes?

OP, when you come onto a forum like this, you are delving into years of experience, and for some guys, decades of experience with these rigs. I guarantee your issue will be fixed with a set of OEM drums and OEM shoes, unless the problem exists because of a mistake from the mechanic that did the job.

 

[brillo_76]

Tim.. The guy was asking for brainstorming ideas and doesn't do his own work.

All this would take is bell crank freezing or sticking or e brake pivot issue to create this issue. Its in Canada which is rust belt area. That aftermarket mfg of brakes is not your local box store components. I actually like using Raybestos and I have used them on my rigs.

Perhaps his old shoes haven't been adjusting properly for years and thus why it wasn't like this before.

Maybe he is not in a position to throw out everything and buy all OEM.

I know I would make darn sure my e brake cable is functioning fully properly before replacing with OEM

You don't have to deal with rust...This cables pivot points and bell cranks are notorious to stick and seize in the rust environment. They have been since the 1970s and 1980s drum brakes are all very similar.

Your talking about $500 to $600 or more of brake components for a slight brake noise in the rear not to mention labor ( drums, shoes, wheel cylinders)

Being that we are not there or know the complete history of the rig. We don't know the condition of the emergency cable system.

I mean say the OP does what you said and still has this rotational grinding sound then what?

He is out more money and the issue is still there.

 

[mtbtim]

After all this work and the mechanic can't tell the bell crank is sticking? It's certainly possible because there's lots of shitty mechanics out there, but you'd think a mechanic working in Vancouver understands corrosion issues and that the bell crank needs to operate smoothly so the shoes don't drag.

Further, the sound is only apparent when the service brake or parking brake is applied. He didn't say it makes noise all the time. A sticking bell crank would cause a constant rotational noise.

So, it sounds like an issue with the parts to me. I can't count how many times I've heard people have had issues with aftermarket drums and shoes on these rigs. The OP shouldn't have to eat the cost of the aftermarket parts. The shop can return them.

Another thing to note is I bet there was nothing wrong with the OPs drums. I've done the rear axle seal job on probably 15 rigs. Not one of them did I replace the drums for the person I was helping. I cleaned up the drums with brake cleaner, installed some new OEM shoes and they were good to go.

OP, if the shop didn't chuck the old drums, have them reinstall them with a set of OEM shoes.

 

[brillo_76]

Why not have the drums thats on it verified they are round and in spec.


Then, do a piece at a time change. This way, you know exactly the causing the issue.

I have seen times when it looks like it's one thing. When it's something else many times before. far too many times to count.

The idea of just replace everything the parts cannon approach is not cost effective and almost always a waste of money and time.

Always best to step back and verify first and without seeing things and verifying what was checked and not it's harder to pinpoint the exact cause.

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