Okay quick background...I bought a 2000 4Runner Limited about 3-4 weeks ago from someone roughly 4 hours away driving time. Brakes felt weak but the drive home was fine (highway speeds mostly). Got the car home and did the large Tundra upgrade on front replacing all rotors/pads/calipers (Centric Rotors/Hawk Pads/Remand Calipers). While I was at it, I also replaced rear shoes with OEM and the drums appeared in good shape, albeit dirty from the seal leaking (they cleaned up fine). I also replaced both rear axle seals along with the bearings/retainers/etc and had Toyota stealership press the axles so it was done right.
Fast forward a few days ago and I begin to drive the car around town at speeds up to 50 mph = No vibration, brakes seem good, no weird noises, nothing out of the ordinary.
I then move to highway and get to about 60-65 and within a few minutes on the highway (roughly 15 minutes of total driving) the truck begins to vibrate in the rear. It then begins to quickly move up the car into the front and within 15 seconds, the whole dang truck is shaking like crazy...I mean the whole truck feels like its going to fall apart, like driving on those shoulder bumps u see on the highways.
I start freaking out, I begin braking to slow down the truck and the vibration gets EVEN worse haha, the truck is rattling my brain on the highway. SO i slow down thinking maybe its the speed, but it continues to shake violently until I stop the car completely. Once it's stopped...I get out, check everything for about 2 minutes on the side of the highway, get back in, and it drives nice and smooth....like nothing ever happened.
I then get it back up to 50 mph and all is well including the braking. Once I hit 60+mph, it all goes to hell again. I have replicated this over and over at speeds of about 60+mph:
-Stop and go traffic up to 50+- mph No problems with anything including braking
-Highway speeds 60+ mph the thing shakes like an addict looking for a fix
-Braking while it is vibrating causes even MORE vibration
-Heavy brake burning smell coming from rear when this occurs, as though the drums are somehow locking up at high speed even without being pressed
What's got me concerned is that when I originally bought it and drove 400 miles at highway speeds, it did not vibrate at all. I have not done anything to the wheels/tires except remove them to change out the brakes and put them right back on, so I can't see this being a balance/alignment issue with the wheels.
I'm leaning toward the drum brakes being the culprit but I can't imagine what would cause this issue at highway speeds but not at stop and go speeds that is directly brake related. Like why not occur at ALL speeds if it's brake related?
I know the vibration thing with 4Runners has been beat to death but I feel like the combination of bad vibration at 60+mph and braking makes this a bit of an odd duck. When I let up the gas at those speeds after its begun to shake, it does NOT make the shake go away. Only stopping the truck completely will almost "reset" it. I cannot literally drive this thing over 60 mph for fear of how bad it vibrates/shakes at those speeds.
Could it be related to possible heat buildup in the drums that only occurs at those high speeds?
I'm going to take the drums off tomorrow and just check inside to see if anything looks odd but I have no leaks anywhere and braking seems to be fine as long as I stay under 60 mph (and even above 60 mph the brakes work..they just shake the truck like hell!)
Any thoughts on what it could be?
-Out of balance wheel? Ehh maybe but the problem only started when I changed the brakes all around not prior to
-Alignment issues? Once again no problems 3 weeks ago during a 400 mile ride before brakes were changed
-Rotors warped? Maybe..but they were both brand new along with pads and calipers so its seem unlikely
-Drums worn? Drums seemed fine, no lip and plenty of thickness
-Shoes worn? Shoes are OEM Toyota and brand new
-Rear drum back plate? Toyota tech did recommend i replace both back plates (at $100 a piece) as he said they looked "beat up" but I had no problems installing the shoes and they didn't seem beat up at all..maybe the shoes are rubbing the back plates FWIW, I did grease the wear spots on the back plates that the shoes had previously rubbed
-Some other rear brake issues? I can't think of any...
-Wheel Bearings going bad? Replaced both sides just the other day
-Something totally unrelated?
**Update 1**
Well we jacked up the rear and put the truck in drive to see what it would do. Driver side rear wheel seemed fine for the most part, nothing out of balance or anything concerning. We then blocked that wheel and let the passenger rear wheel spin for a bit and noticed a heavy ticking sound coming from what sounded like just behind the back plate as it spun in drive at "idle speed". I then pressed the gas and got it up to about 60 mph while on jacks and the ticking sounds increased in intensity and speed with the acceleration.
We took the passenger rear wheel off and took off the drums and noticed nothing inside out of the ordinary. All parts were clean, drums and shoes seem to be even, no unusual wear or marks. We messed with the overall passenger side brake setup/axle to see if there was any play and there was a tiny bit when pushing the axle in and pulling it out..maybe the width of a dime or nickle if i had to guess. I'm not sure if this is normal for 4runners or if there should be absolutely NO play in it at all.
My buddy who was helping suspects the noise MAY be coming from the axle or the wheel bearing. He suspects MAYBE the axle was bent while at the dealership (dropped or fell over possibly). I'm not sure if that kind of thing can bend the axle but I suppose it's possible. As I stated before the bearings are brand new and were pressed on by Toyota so It COULD be a faulty bearing but I'm still in denial about that for now.
Right now its still jacked up and got too late to continue diagnosing but we'll look at it more tomorrow. I spoke with a few mechanic friends of mine and they are pointing (based on the above story) to the problem being 100% drivetrain related (rear end, axles, bearings, u-joints, drive shaft, something) and not brake related. I'll update with more information as we look further into the problem. Thanks for all the tips and suggestions thus far.
**Update 2**
Okay okay, i finally figured it out and feel a bit stupid, but that's fine because it cost me $0 to fix it. It ended up being something as simple as torquing the wheels correctly. Yep...I went back on all the wheels, loosened all the lug nuts, and retorqued them all in the star pattern with the proper torque setting (83lbs) and viola, no more rattle at high speeds. I even got up to about 80 for about 45 min the other day and no vibration from the rear. I have a little steering wheel vibration at high speeds but that could be a number of things and i'm not that worried about it. I thought for a while it couldn't be as simple as that but alas it was. Just glad i checked that first before i started replacing random parts. Thanks all for the help.
Fast forward a few days ago and I begin to drive the car around town at speeds up to 50 mph = No vibration, brakes seem good, no weird noises, nothing out of the ordinary.
I then move to highway and get to about 60-65 and within a few minutes on the highway (roughly 15 minutes of total driving) the truck begins to vibrate in the rear. It then begins to quickly move up the car into the front and within 15 seconds, the whole dang truck is shaking like crazy...I mean the whole truck feels like its going to fall apart, like driving on those shoulder bumps u see on the highways.
I start freaking out, I begin braking to slow down the truck and the vibration gets EVEN worse haha, the truck is rattling my brain on the highway. SO i slow down thinking maybe its the speed, but it continues to shake violently until I stop the car completely. Once it's stopped...I get out, check everything for about 2 minutes on the side of the highway, get back in, and it drives nice and smooth....like nothing ever happened.
I then get it back up to 50 mph and all is well including the braking. Once I hit 60+mph, it all goes to hell again. I have replicated this over and over at speeds of about 60+mph:
-Stop and go traffic up to 50+- mph No problems with anything including braking
-Highway speeds 60+ mph the thing shakes like an addict looking for a fix
-Braking while it is vibrating causes even MORE vibration
-Heavy brake burning smell coming from rear when this occurs, as though the drums are somehow locking up at high speed even without being pressed
What's got me concerned is that when I originally bought it and drove 400 miles at highway speeds, it did not vibrate at all. I have not done anything to the wheels/tires except remove them to change out the brakes and put them right back on, so I can't see this being a balance/alignment issue with the wheels.
I'm leaning toward the drum brakes being the culprit but I can't imagine what would cause this issue at highway speeds but not at stop and go speeds that is directly brake related. Like why not occur at ALL speeds if it's brake related?
I know the vibration thing with 4Runners has been beat to death but I feel like the combination of bad vibration at 60+mph and braking makes this a bit of an odd duck. When I let up the gas at those speeds after its begun to shake, it does NOT make the shake go away. Only stopping the truck completely will almost "reset" it. I cannot literally drive this thing over 60 mph for fear of how bad it vibrates/shakes at those speeds.
Could it be related to possible heat buildup in the drums that only occurs at those high speeds?
I'm going to take the drums off tomorrow and just check inside to see if anything looks odd but I have no leaks anywhere and braking seems to be fine as long as I stay under 60 mph (and even above 60 mph the brakes work..they just shake the truck like hell!)
Any thoughts on what it could be?
-Out of balance wheel? Ehh maybe but the problem only started when I changed the brakes all around not prior to
-Alignment issues? Once again no problems 3 weeks ago during a 400 mile ride before brakes were changed
-Rotors warped? Maybe..but they were both brand new along with pads and calipers so its seem unlikely
-Drums worn? Drums seemed fine, no lip and plenty of thickness
-Shoes worn? Shoes are OEM Toyota and brand new
-Rear drum back plate? Toyota tech did recommend i replace both back plates (at $100 a piece) as he said they looked "beat up" but I had no problems installing the shoes and they didn't seem beat up at all..maybe the shoes are rubbing the back plates FWIW, I did grease the wear spots on the back plates that the shoes had previously rubbed
-Some other rear brake issues? I can't think of any...
-Wheel Bearings going bad? Replaced both sides just the other day
-Something totally unrelated?
**Update 1**
Well we jacked up the rear and put the truck in drive to see what it would do. Driver side rear wheel seemed fine for the most part, nothing out of balance or anything concerning. We then blocked that wheel and let the passenger rear wheel spin for a bit and noticed a heavy ticking sound coming from what sounded like just behind the back plate as it spun in drive at "idle speed". I then pressed the gas and got it up to about 60 mph while on jacks and the ticking sounds increased in intensity and speed with the acceleration.
We took the passenger rear wheel off and took off the drums and noticed nothing inside out of the ordinary. All parts were clean, drums and shoes seem to be even, no unusual wear or marks. We messed with the overall passenger side brake setup/axle to see if there was any play and there was a tiny bit when pushing the axle in and pulling it out..maybe the width of a dime or nickle if i had to guess. I'm not sure if this is normal for 4runners or if there should be absolutely NO play in it at all.
My buddy who was helping suspects the noise MAY be coming from the axle or the wheel bearing. He suspects MAYBE the axle was bent while at the dealership (dropped or fell over possibly). I'm not sure if that kind of thing can bend the axle but I suppose it's possible. As I stated before the bearings are brand new and were pressed on by Toyota so It COULD be a faulty bearing but I'm still in denial about that for now.
Right now its still jacked up and got too late to continue diagnosing but we'll look at it more tomorrow. I spoke with a few mechanic friends of mine and they are pointing (based on the above story) to the problem being 100% drivetrain related (rear end, axles, bearings, u-joints, drive shaft, something) and not brake related. I'll update with more information as we look further into the problem. Thanks for all the tips and suggestions thus far.
**Update 2**
Okay okay, i finally figured it out and feel a bit stupid, but that's fine because it cost me $0 to fix it. It ended up being something as simple as torquing the wheels correctly. Yep...I went back on all the wheels, loosened all the lug nuts, and retorqued them all in the star pattern with the proper torque setting (83lbs) and viola, no more rattle at high speeds. I even got up to about 80 for about 45 min the other day and no vibration from the rear. I have a little steering wheel vibration at high speeds but that could be a number of things and i'm not that worried about it. I thought for a while it couldn't be as simple as that but alas it was. Just glad i checked that first before i started replacing random parts. Thanks all for the help.
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