School me on AT tires.

[Jayhawk5G]

Searched the forum and ended up more confused, found threads where people posted a picture and just listed size and mods, threads on going to much larger sizes in relation to lifts, and threads on aggressive treads, so please be patient as I know tires are a frequently discussed topic.

Soooo I’m still running my OEM Bridgestone Dueler HT’s and while I initially raved about them, their traction properties are starting to noticeably degrade. My 4Runner is about to hit 50k and at each of my last two oil changes my local Toyota dealer has said that the tread depth his good and they don’t recommend replacement. However when it’s wet it’s fairly easy to activate traction control when taking off from a stop, and in the winter even in 4x4 it’s fairly easy to lose traction while taking a turn in moderate snow. Beyond this my wife is pregnant and due in March, so safety is a concern. Normally I would be cheap about it and not replace the tires until recommended by the dealer based on tread wear, but I would rather not take any chances.

Let’s start with the things I’m certain about to narrow things down a bit. I’m looking for a well-balanced AT tire that considers cost, and offers much improved traction while taking into account road noise/mpg/tread life. I’m looking to stay with either the stock 265/70-17 or 275/70-17, as I assume 285’s would be overkill for my needs and create too many compromises? That’s about as much as I know, still confused on things like load range the Dueler is an SL load range and has done fine, is it worth it to upgrade to a C range tire, etc.

I have gravitated towards the Cooper Discoverer A/T3 and the Falken Wildpeak A/T3W, but am open to whatever brands models you have experience with and would recommend. Please learn me on tires, mainly used on pavement, will see some service roads and looking to do some light wheeling.

 

[spencenasty]

If you wanted an aggressive AT I could personally recommend a ST Maxx (current tire on 4runner in 33").

You mention the AT3, which is a fantastic tire (i have personal experience with) I haven't read any bad reviews about the AT3.

Give this a read.

Where the Rubber Meets the Road | Expedition Portal

 

[Brandonium]

There's a good thread in these forums from 1Engineer on the AT3 tires I believe. At this point it's a toss up between these and the KO2 tires for me.

 

[mcox522]

I've been running the KO2 for about a month now. The noise is minimal on road and traction is great off road. I got to play on the mountains a couple weeks ago and I thought they performed great. It's been my only trip as I just got the 4R. These are the only tires I can comment on as I had a Saturn before this.

 

[1engineer]

Searched the forum and ended up more confused, found threads where people posted a picture and just listed size and mods, threads on going to much larger sizes in relation to lifts, and threads on aggressive treads, so please be patient as I know tires are a frequently discussed topic.

Soooo I’m still running my OEM Bridgestone Dueler HT’s and while I initially raved about them, their traction properties are starting to noticeably degrade. My 4Runner is about to hit 50k and at each of my last two oil changes my local Toyota dealer has said that the tread depth his good and they don’t recommend replacement. However when it’s wet it’s fairly easy to activate traction control when taking off from a stop, and in the winter even in 4x4 it’s fairly easy to lose traction while taking a turn in moderate snow. Beyond this my wife is pregnant and due in March, so safety is a concern. Normally I would be cheap about it and not replace the tires until recommended by the dealer based on tread wear, but I would rather not take any chances.

Let’s start with the things I’m certain about to narrow things down a bit. I’m looking for a well-balanced AT tire that considers cost, and offers much improved traction while taking into account road noise/mpg/tread life. I’m looking to stay with either the stock 265/70-17 or 275/70-17, as I assume 285’s would be overkill for my needs and create too many compromises? That’s about as much as I know, still confused on things like load range the Dueler is an SL load range and has done fine, is it worth it to upgrade to a C range tire, etc.

I have gravitated towards the Cooper Discoverer A/T3 and the Falken Wildpeak A/T3W, but am open to whatever brands models you have experience with and would recommend. Please learn me on tires, mainly used on pavement, will see some service roads and looking to do some light wheeling.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/114342-tires.html

 

[Simpleman74]

have about 22k on 275 KO2s and I have to say I am pretty impressed with them

 

[kingofZroad]

I love my 275 KO2's as well!!!

Sent from my iPhone using the "Hunt and Peck" method...

 

[Jayhawk5G]

If you wanted an aggressive AT I could personally recommend a ST Maxx (current tire on 4runner in 33").

You mention the AT3, which is a fantastic tire (i have personal experience with) I haven't read any bad reviews about the AT3.

Give this a read.

Where the Rubber Meets the Road | Expedition Portal

Thanks for the link, makes me feel good that the Cooper was already up at the top of my list. What are your opinions about sizing and load rating? My only concern was that they weren't aggressive enough, some reviews called them basically a road tire (thought that link makes them look pretty capable.)

I've been running the KO2 for about a month now. The noise is minimal on road and traction is great off road. I got to play on the mountains a couple weeks ago and I thought they performed great. It's been my only trip as I just got the 4R. These are the only tires I can comment on as I had a Saturn before this.

Same here this 4Runner is my second SUV and the first I will have had to select tires for. I know that tires can have a huge impact as unsprung weight and would like to measure twice and cut once, since they aren't cheap. I hadn't considered the KO2, might have to look into them.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/114342-tires.html

I will read through your thread, I know you have had 2 additional 4Runners... did you stick with the AT3? What are your thoughts long term with the tire? I think our uses would be pretty similar.

have about 22k on 275 KO2s and I have to say I am pretty impressed with them

What made you select the 275? I thought a little more width might be nice, but the prices are substantially higher than 265 and the choices are very small... I was starting to be of the mindset you either stay 265 or jump in the deep end with 285?

 

[tko125]

Searched the forum and ended up more confused, found threads where people posted a picture and just listed size and mods, threads on going to much larger sizes in relation to lifts, and threads on aggressive treads, so please be patient as I know tires are a frequently discussed topic.

Soooo I’m still running my OEM Bridgestone Dueler HT’s and while I initially raved about them, their traction properties are starting to noticeably degrade. My 4Runner is about to hit 50k and at each of my last two oil changes my local Toyota dealer has said that the tread depth his good and they don’t recommend replacement. However when it’s wet it’s fairly easy to activate traction control when taking off from a stop, and in the winter even in 4x4 it’s fairly easy to lose traction while taking a turn in moderate snow. Beyond this my wife is pregnant and due in March, so safety is a concern. Normally I would be cheap about it and not replace the tires until recommended by the dealer based on tread wear, but I would rather not take any chances.

Let’s start with the things I’m certain about to narrow things down a bit. I’m looking for a well-balanced AT tire that considers cost, and offers much improved traction while taking into account road noise/mpg/tread life. I’m looking to stay with either the stock 265/70-17 or 275/70-17, as I assume 285’s would be overkill for my needs and create too many compromises? That’s about as much as I know, still confused on things like load range the Dueler is an SL load range and has done fine, is it worth it to upgrade to a C range tire, etc.

I have gravitated towards the Cooper Discoverer A/T3 and the Falken Wildpeak A/T3W, but am open to whatever brands models you have experience with and would recommend. Please learn me on tires, mainly used on pavement, will see some service roads and looking to do some light wheeling.

Jayhawk5G:

I just took my Cooper AT/3's off yesterday and had Nitto Terra Grappler G2's installed. I thought the Cooper AT/3's were a fantastic tire for the price. I had 49,000 miles on them yesterday upon removal and the tread-ware was even (rotated every 5K). The tires did an excellent job in the snow and almost never lost their footing/grip.

My complaints with the tire were that they tended to go out of balance more frequently than past tires I've owned and they seemed to "dart". By this I mean that you really had to maintain your line with these tires. If you removed your hand from the steering wheel they would get a mind of their own and take a different line. As for ride quality, these tires produced substantial road noise (who cares though, it's an A/T tire) and a hard packed feel.

Since switching to the Terra Grappler G2's yesterday I can feel an immediate difference. The Terra Grappler G2's feel much lighter in terms of resistance on the steering feel, softer and road noise is less. These tires feel extremely sporty on the road and I have more confidence in turns. As mentioned, I feel overall ride quality is superior.

In summary, If I were to rank the Cooper's I'd give them an 8.5/10. It's too early to rate the G2's but I did have the Nitto Terra Grappler (originals) before the Coopers and I would rate them a 9.5. In the end it's really about what feel you want and how much you want to spend. Both tires are great.

Hope this helps.

 

[4runnin4mylife]

I just got 275's in the KO2's and love everything about them so far. With your earlier comments about weight, load rating, etc. it seems to me you may want to stay the stock size. If you go with the KO2's in 265 (load rating C) I doubt you will be disappointed! It's a slight uptick in weight from the passenger tires you have now, but of course less than if you jump to 275 (which is higher ply and load rating E) . From what I read in your original post I would recommend 265/70/17 BFG KO2's!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[mbumpus11]

I just got 275's in the KO2's and love everything about them so far. With your earlier comments about weight, load rating, etc. it seems to me you may want to stay the stock size. If you go with the KO2's in 265 (load rating C) I doubt you will be disappointed! It's a slight uptick in weight from the passenger tires you have now, but of course less than if you jump to 275 (which is higher ply and load rating E) . From what I read in your original post I would recommend 265/70/17 BFG KO2's!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Agree with 4Runnin. I have the 275/70/17 KO2's and absolutely love them. That being said, I utilize the stiffer walls and E load rating out at the ranch, so if you aren't planning on driving through stuff tougher than mud/snow/dirt/gravel then you would probably be safe with the KO2's in 265.

When I got my Dueler's replaced (after having the truck for 2 weeks) it was a rainy day, and I tested the traction on a wet parking lot. I was able to fishtail a little with the Dueler's, but when I put the KO2's on the tires bit and there was no traction lost. Not a very scientific test, but in the same spot that I slid the KO2's performed much better and stuck.

Just my $.02.

 

[Jetboy]

You're going to get a lot of different opinions. There's a wide range of AT tires. As an all around long lasting, good on the highway, good in easier offroad situations, I think the Goodyear ATS is both reasonably priced and an exceptionally good all around tire. It is on the more street end of the AT spectrum though. And only available in the 265 size. IMO it's a better tire in every situation than the Toyota AT2s I have now. But they don't make it in a 285.

 

[1engineer]

I will read through your thread, I know you have had 2 additional 4Runners... did you stick with the AT3? What are your thoughts long term with the tire? I think our uses would be pretty similar.

Jayhawk5G:

I just took my Cooper AT/3's off yesterday and had Nitto Terra Grappler G2's installed. I thought the Cooper AT/3's were a fantastic tire for the price. I had 49,000 miles on them yesterday upon removal and the tread-ware was even (rotated every 5K). The tires did an excellent job in the snow and almost never lost their footing/grip.

My complaints with the tire were that they tended to go out of balance more frequently than past tires I've owned and they seemed to "dart". By this I mean that you really had to maintain your line with these tires. If you removed your hand from the steering wheel they would get a mind of their own and take a different line. As for ride quality, these tires produced substantial road noise (who cares though, it's an A/T tire) and a hard packed feel.

Since switching to the Terra Grappler G2's yesterday I can feel an immediate difference. The Terra Grappler G2's feel much lighter in terms of resistance on the steering feel, softer and road noise is less. These tires feel extremely sporty on the road and I have more confidence in turns. As mentioned, I feel overall ride quality is superior.

In summary, If I were to rank the Cooper's I'd give them an 8.5/10. It's too early to rate the G2's but I did have the Nitto Terra Grappler (originals) before the Coopers and I would rate them a 9.5. In the end it's really about what feel you want and how much you want to spend. Both tires are great.

Hope this helps.

I ran through a few sets of the Cooper AT3's and they are a great tire. I changed them out at around 40K even though they had life left. I never run a tire to the wear bars though. So I have about 80K of that tire's experience lol.

I am currently running the Nitto Terra Grappler G2. Why? A friend of mine who owns the local Toyota dealership was raving about them on his personal 4Runner and said Toyota was offering a "buy 3, get one free" deal. So I got a set. That was about 30K miles ago so after that time, here is my mini review of those two tires side by side:

Wear: Both the Coopers and the Nittos wear evenly and look to wear at about the same rate.

On road noise: Both tires were very quiet when new. Of course as they wear they get louder and the Nittos are getting louder now just like the Coopers did.

Off Road: The actual performance (traction, handling) is a wash. Neither tire is great in the dirt, mud or rocks (they are an AT tire...) but I have to give a small nod to the Nittos simply because they don't pick up the pebbles and hang on to them like the Coopers do.

Snow: I have run both through thousands of miles of snow covered roads. The nod goes to Cooper here. The additional sipes on the Coopers give it a bit more traction on the hard pack versus the Nittos. In deeper snow both tires performed equally. Nowhere near as good as a snow tire but much better than an All Season tire.

Wet: Definitely the nod goes to Cooper. While hydroplaning was never an issue with either tire the Cooper gives more grip. What I mean is takeoff traction, like sitting at a stoplight in the rain. When you go to accelerate its much easier to get the TRAC involved with the Nittos than with the Coopers.

Looks: The Nitto gets the nod but only on sidewall design and this is purely subjective lol.


What I will go with next: I honestly don't know. Probably the Coopers although I might just break down and buy the BFG's lol... or the Michelin Defender AT's... two totally different tires but both excellent tires.

 

[Jayhawk5G]

I ran through a few sets of the Cooper AT3's and they are a great tire. I changed them out at around 40K even though they had life left. I never run a tire to the wear bars though. So I have about 80K of that tire's experience lol.

I am currently running the Nitto Terra Grappler G2. Why? A friend of mine who owns the local Toyota dealership was raving about them on his personal 4Runner and said Toyota was offering a "buy 3, get one free" deal. So I got a set. That was about 30K miles ago so after that time, here is my mini review of those two tires side by side:

Wear: Both the Coopers and the Nittos wear evenly and look to wear at about the same rate.

On road noise: Both tires were very quiet when new. Of course as they wear they get louder and the Nittos are getting louder now just like the Coopers did.

Off Road: The actual performance (traction, handling) is a wash. Neither tire is great in the dirt, mud or rocks (they are an AT tire...) but I have to give a small nod to the Nittos simply because they don't pick up the pebbles and hang on to them like the Coopers do.

Snow: I have run both through thousands of miles of snow covered roads. The nod goes to Cooper here. The additional sipes on the Coopers give it a bit more traction on the hard pack versus the Nittos. In deeper snow both tires performed equally. Nowhere near as good as a snow tire but much better than an All Season tire.

Wet: Definitely the nod goes to Cooper. While hydroplaning was never an issue with either tire the Cooper gives more grip. What I mean is takeoff traction, like sitting at a stoplight in the rain. When you go to accelerate its much easier to get the TRAC involved with the Nittos than with the Coopers.

Looks: The Nitto gets the nod but only on sidewall design and this is purely subjective lol.


What I will go with next: I honestly don't know. Probably the Coopers although I might just break down and buy the BFG's lol... or the Michelin Defender AT's... two totally different tires but both excellent tires.

This has me leaning towards the Coopers since the biggest concerns for me a majority of the time are wet traction and snow traction. The off-road characteristics are important but secondary. How did these compare to stock for MPG's... I'm assuming if I stay stock size it should be pretty negligible (slightly worse based on improved traction characteristics and slightly more weight?)

Sounds like the higher load rating would be for more extensive off-roading or increased weight from bumpers, etc.

 

[Jayhawk5G]

Jayhawk5G:

I just took my Cooper AT/3's off yesterday and had Nitto Terra Grappler G2's installed. I thought the Cooper AT/3's were a fantastic tire for the price. I had 49,000 miles on them yesterday upon removal and the tread-ware was even (rotated every 5K). The tires did an excellent job in the snow and almost never lost their footing/grip.

My complaints with the tire were that they tended to go out of balance more frequently than past tires I've owned and they seemed to "dart". By this I mean that you really had to maintain your line with these tires. If you removed your hand from the steering wheel they would get a mind of their own and take a different line. As for ride quality, these tires produced substantial road noise (who cares though, it's an A/T tire) and a hard packed feel.

Since switching to the Terra Grappler G2's yesterday I can feel an immediate difference. The Terra Grappler G2's feel much lighter in terms of resistance on the steering feel, softer and road noise is less. These tires feel extremely sporty on the road and I have more confidence in turns. As mentioned, I feel overall ride quality is superior.

In summary, If I were to rank the Cooper's I'd give them an 8.5/10. It's too early to rate the G2's but I did have the Nitto Terra Grappler (originals) before the Coopers and I would rate them a 9.5. In the end it's really about what feel you want and how much you want to spend. Both tires are great.

Hope this helps.

I appreciate your help, but I'm more confused actually... 1engineer had me leaning towards the Coopers. I Dueler's have never had balance issues in 50k miles, and I really don't want to deal with that moving forward. I also don't want to lose positive on pavement driving dynamics since that's where I spend a majority of my time, so the tram lining has me a bit worried too.

 

[Brandonium]

One of my main issues is I want to jump to 275/70-17 but I do not want an E rated tire. I love the look and performance of the KO2 with exception of the harsh ride they give.

The AT3 is nice but not quite as aggressive as the ATP. The ATP does not come in this size (comes in 265 and 285 in the 70-17) and the AT3 does 275 in both C and E load ratings.

I also like white lettering so that limits me (yes I also like what I like aesthetically for the money I spend)

 

[Simpleman74]

What made you select the 275? I thought a little more width might be nice, but the prices are substantially higher than 265 and the choices are very small... I was starting to be of the mindset you either stay 265 or jump in the deep end with 285?

I lifted the 4runner some and wanted bigger tires.... that and I wanted an E rated tired for offroad.

One of my main issues is I want to jump to 275/70-17 but I do not want an E rated tire. I love the look and performance of the KO2 with exception of the harsh ride they give.

I run e rated and they feel the same as the OEM tires and barely lost half a mpg if that

 

[DannyLlama]

Toyo AT II Xtreme ...

 

[1engineer]

This has me leaning towards the Coopers since the biggest concerns for me a majority of the time are wet traction and snow traction. The off-road characteristics are important but secondary. How did these compare to stock for MPG's... I'm assuming if I stay stock size it should be pretty negligible (slightly worse based on improved traction characteristics and slightly more weight?)

Sounds like the higher load rating would be for more extensive off-roading or increased weight from bumpers, etc.

Not much decrease... just a tenth or two. If I were only going to choose between one or the other this time I would go with the Coopers. I really like the Michelins and the BFG's though...

 

[-dustin]

I have the ATPs in a P-rated 265/70/R17 and have been really, really impressed with them. They do tend to pick up the little pebbles a bit more than I'd expect, but their wet traction is superb. Just shy of 20k miles. My only grump is that they don't come in a 275/70, P or LT. I'm thinking my next go-around will be 255/75s. I'm curious as to how a narrower tire handles...but am slightly concerned about there being a little bit of...sway. float. flex...whatever you want to call it.

I haven't done much in the rocks, but in the mud I've had to deal with, the ATPs haven't disappointed. Soupy and sticky mud. I see a lot more rain than I do anything else, unfortunately.